vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

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tragwag
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vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 31908Unread post tragwag
Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:37 pm

there's tons of topics that mention related VR issues, but I haven't seen one about chip pickup specifically.
I'm noticing a weird balling up of chip on the back side of the stylus.
In recent cuts it seems to start right on the needle drop, but takes almost 2-3 minutes to ball up and ruin the cut.
Sometimes, the chip kinda wraps around itself, but continues to be removed. It could continue to ball up, but sometimes it does not.

If I turn the heat lamp on and off again, it usually resets the problem. But not after I've blown a whole blank on it.
I'm thinking the lamp might be heating the disc too much and causing the plastic to melt behind the stylus?
I stopped using the side mounted lamp because I was getting the balling up immediately on needle drop, and noticed the edge of the disc was over 100 degrees, and the rest was at 80 or so.

Usually I cut the disc at 85-90 degrees F
anti static spray
stylus heat between 0-10 on the dial
I've started to clean out the chip jar almost every day (cutting about 4-6 hrs a day sometimes)

Any discussion into this issue would benefit a great number of people I'm sure.
Feel free to reference other topics as well.
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
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smithadamm
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 31909Unread post smithadamm
Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:56 pm

Could be a heat/vacuum combo problem. I'm just guessing that it hasn't always done this, even though it sounds like you've usually cut with the same heating method, give or take.

So, maybe you are getting less suction than you had is the past for some reason. I've seen a pinhole in a vacuum system do this, I'm guessing a little gunk or a loss of pressure at a connection might do it too. So, the vacuum isn't pulling as much air across as it used to and letting the stylus or blank get to hot, nor does it have the oomph to keep the chip moving they way it's supposed to.

I'm not expert, and I'm basically taking a wild guess, but vacuum is where I would be looking.

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opcode66
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 31911Unread post opcode66
Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:58 pm

I have a lot of good suggestions on how to combat static in my plastic cutting guide. I would suggest following the same procedure. I have like zero static issues anymore.

Also, the air is getting dryer. So, that helps to create more static. A humidifier can help in the cutting room. But, first and foremost, try cutting using Nitrile gloves. Then you are no longer creating static or redistributing static from one object to another while working.
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tragwag
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 31920Unread post tragwag
Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:47 pm

those are all great tips, thanks!
I'm working on getting a humidifier, and will definitely look into those gloves.

after cutting some more today I think I figured out my immediate issue:
the chip is balling up after the disc reaches 85+ degrees.
It was almost like clockwork, once the temp gun hit 86 or 87, I'd get a ball of chip behind the stylus.
I backed off my lamp a little bit, so the disc stays hot, but never above 85 degrees during this cut (a 4 minute, 45 RPM LP side)
its worked so far, I'll report back if I have any more findings.
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
http://www.audiogeography.com

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opcode66
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 31924Unread post opcode66
Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:14 pm

Hmmm. That is a very interesting discovery. That the specific material used for Souri's discs is best cut at a lower temperature. Unlike polycarbonate. With poly, hotter is better generally.

Those black nitriles are at every Home Depot. In the tools isle. Where they sell work gloves and protective eye-where.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grease-Monkey-Nitrile-Disposable-Gloves-40-Pack-23850-014/202188313
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tragwag
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 31933Unread post tragwag
Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:03 pm

yeah!
This is only my experience, and it may be that current humidity/temperature effects all of this stuff.
I just figured it'd be useful to document.
It is true that I cut polycarb at 100+
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
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SUNBEARS
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 31955Unread post SUNBEARS
Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:43 am

I definitely cut at a lower temperature than Souri recommended during training. Especially with stylus heating, there's less need to make it quite so hot. - I say this too because I was having similar issues with chip balling up when I would drop in. once I started heating the disc less, I had less issues. 90 degrees is about what works for me.

Also. I have noticed that if I don't drop in quickly enough (not the same as hard enough) I will get some chip balled up. I think it has to do with the stylus heating turning on before I drop in, and if I don't move quickly enough, it over heats the stylus and the disc gets all melty. - I use the automatic switcher, not sure if you have the same unit. Basically as soon as the cutter head starts to lower, everything turns on automatically.. Including stylus heating. So if I start to drop, and hold it there, I think it just gets too hot.

Anyway, dunno if that helps. Less heat and swift (not hard) moves have seemed to do the trick for me.

Happy cutting!
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tragwag
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 31988Unread post tragwag
Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:11 pm

thanks for sharing that!
I was thinking about the "swift" motion as well, there's the point where the stylus first touches the disc, and then when the little lever is all the way down, I think it bounces a little and causes a mess sometimes.
Also thought about how "wet" the disc is after spraying it? I usually wait until it first seems dry, if I wait too long it balls up. Or if I cut it wet, it balls up as well.
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
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Discomo
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 55650Unread post Discomo
Fri May 08, 2020 8:29 am

tragwag wrote:
Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:11 pm
thanks for sharing that!
I was thinking about the "swift" motion as well, there's the point where the stylus first touches the disc, and then when the little lever is all the way down, I think it bounces a little and causes a mess sometimes.
Also thought about how "wet" the disc is after spraying it? I usually wait until it first seems dry, if I wait too long it balls up. Or if I cut it wet, it balls up as well.
Hi Tragwag, just noticed this little thread of 6 years back.
Do you think the material of the Souri discs is still not poly vinyl (I read you saying this in another thread)?
I always cut between 105-120 f (40-50 c) with good results. Have never cut any lower on the Souri discs. No static build up whatsoever. I just use a good quality biological detergent with water as anti-static and that's it basically.
So, I wondered if the disc material of souri has changed in the last 6 years. Tbh, I always thought the discs were in fact Poly vinyl.
Not that it really matters, the quality is good. How's about the myshank blanks? The material is softer than Souri's. Any idea what material are these?

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tragwag
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 55749Unread post tragwag
Mon May 18, 2020 3:09 pm

I got souris blanks analyzed, they're majority PET plastic.
this was about 5 years ago, but I can't imagine they've changed drastically.
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
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Discomo
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 55751Unread post Discomo
Mon May 18, 2020 3:17 pm

tragwag wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:09 pm
I got souris blanks analyzed, they're majority PET plastic.
this was about 5 years ago, but I can't imagine they've changed drastically.
Do you think they would sound different, or even better when they would be real vinyl?

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tragwag
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 55752Unread post tragwag
Mon May 18, 2020 3:20 pm

I don't think they would sound different, but people have cut on "real vinyl" pressed PVC
they have much shorter stylus life.
the physical differences are fairly obvious, souri's blanks are much softer than pressed vinyl, they come with sheeting on them, and they're flat.
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
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RedSpadeRobyn
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Re: vinyl recorder chip pickup issues

Post: # 55910Unread post RedSpadeRobyn
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:38 pm

I found that I was getting balling/pick up issues when I got a crack in my chip canister lid. Once I was able to create an airtight seal it all returned to normal.

One other difference, I don’t turn on heating until I’ve done my lead in, Obvs not the auto set up. But seems to work for me.

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