Test cuts from Kingston/Vinylrecorder/Neumann and more

[fraggle]

Ok guys,
I uploaded a track some might not like it but I had no idea what to cut so this is Shpongle. Lots of trebles and percussions & voices.
Would be nice if more people cut it so I don't look like a complete retard compare to Montalbano who is a professional
The file is 100 mb and in wav so good Quality.

NO CHEATING!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/s4w2g7

Cheers

[fraggle]

Ok here is my demo.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/dzz787

Cut with the Kingston.
On black makrolon.
+ 2 db
Normalized 0db after recording
Start ~ 15 mm from the edge of the disc
With Technics sp10
45rpm
I did not change the LPI not sure what it is

I still have problems with backgroundnoise.
Cheers

[montalbano]

Here you go

http://www.philrizzi.com/phonopressing/montalbano_vr.wav

This is Vinylrecorder with its original feedback cutterhead
Ext motor and plate
Optimizer

Nothing else

On Monday I'll post the VMS70 file

Now going to pickup Mossboss at the airport!

[subkontrabob]

Now going to pickup Mossboss at the airport!

Lucky you, the dust cloud prevented me from doing the same 3 months ago

[MEGAMIKE]

they both sound great

[emorritt]

I took fraggle's file and cut it on my Scully/Westrex system on the good side of a dud 12 inch lacquer. Completely clean signal path from the PC to the lathe with the exception of a Haeco elliptical EQ for the bass (setting at 70Hz low crossover) - no other processing typically used in disc cutting. Cut at 33.33 RPM, +2/+4 peaks. Reproduced on a ROK CVS turntable with Stanton cartridge and restoration preamp - only RIAA selected, no other repro processing; direct signal path to PC. The file is at:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/4spgbb

[fraggle]

hey emoritt that sounds bloody awesome man!
But you cut on lacquer so we cannot really count that hehe.
@ montalbano
This is definitely the best cut i have heared from the vinylrecorder so far!
It is not much different at all.
The sound is a bit harsher i think but still really good.
I mean you are a pro so i'm not too surprised
It would just be so much nicer if we could cut on durable material which sounds like lacquer:)
Cheers
P.s i still wanna hear the neumann cut

[fraggle]

hey emorritt how did you manage to cut so loud?
cheers

[duomo]

this is an interresting thread
I have also did a testcut from this file. I used our Vinylrecorder (feedback head, precision plate) with my normal setup of plug ins. I cutted it on 45rpm with a new Stylus max. peaks were at +5 dB. Its recorded with a normal Ortofon concord over my Lynx converters (set an HPF at 20 Hz)
@emoritt your files sounds nice but unfortunately its clipping/ heavily limited on the input stage, that the reason why its so loud and not really usable for A/B listening...
here is the link :
http://l2box.de/?d2615a1005a96ed0d3d329e9a4bbab58
All the best
duomo

[fraggle]

ok that sounds good too.
I'm just wondering why i just got the shitty sounding demos lol

[emorritt]

duomo... the audio level coming from the disc reads +2/+4 on the test equipment; my PC has an E-MU sound card with Cubase and Wavelab software and it clips anything over 0, whether it's incoming audio or if you use a processing plug-in and the result is over 0. Didn't think about that when making the comparison file. This is also a vacuum tube 1574 series cutting system. I'm still working on getting my 1700 series solid state suite up and running. Will try to post a test of the same file when that system is up.

[BongoJim]

Ok, just cut this thing. Bouncing it down now. It has been cut on the original Vinylrecorder with standard dynamic cutterhead (not feedback version) due to my rocky relationship with the manufacture I only have one stylus which has cut over 150 records. The results are still good though.

45 Rpm
addtional plate and motor
Digi 002 into Lynx Aurora 8
Playback stylus old Ortofon Concord.

link shortly.

[emorritt]

I re-sampled my disc at normal level to prevent any clipping after I downloaded and listened to the other two cuts which were roughly 0 peak. Here's a clip of the same 19 second segment from the four different sources - the original file, then the VinylRecorder cut, then my Scully/Westrex cut, then the Kingston cut; all at the same relative volume level for comparison. I did lower the level of the original file since it was clipped so it will more closely match the level of the samples of the three recorded discs. The cut samples are as-is. I'm assuming now that this was a sound character test and not a "mine's louder" type test. I'm also assuming that the other two samples weren't cut with any processing in the chain either. The interesting thing is that the three systems do have a distinctive timbre, but this would be true of any system because even though we set the systems up to an accepted set of disc cutting standards, the individual characteristic of various heads, electronics, system wiring, etc. will tend to 'color' the sound of any audio system in one way or another. Did someone say they were going to cut the file on a Neumann system? Plastic or lacquer? Both would be nice for comparison. Anyway, here's the file:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2sc8cd

[BongoJim]

ok, here it is...

I do however have one confession. I don't use the Vinylrecorder RIAA... For some reason when I used it the sound was dreadful (unlike Montalbano and Duo). My RIAA is at the moment a software version (hardware at times) I created to get the most out of the head. Interestingly my curve doesn't look much like the RIAA, there is even a boost at 30Hz. For this head however and on my system I think it works better. I personally don't think this matters much. the art of cutting records is to get the most out of the system at hand.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&send_id=903690131&email=7616bbe9e015502b546391cde562eee0

[BongoJim]

Any more takers on this?? Would be good to get a load of results in...

will try and find the time to cut the track on lacquer with my Neumann but with it being 11mins long its a fairly time consuming commitment. Ideally I would really like to hear it cut on plastic with a Neumann. I'm not set up for that yet so can't offer that service.

[fraggle]

@bongojim
it sounds abit harsh i think. maybe the diamond...
if you can't get support anymore i would just wait until flo has his head ready mount it on and keep cutting on markolon:)

[BongoJim]

yeah, deffo by the end, a bit too much harmonic distortion from the pickup.

Horses for courses I guess, for me the weakest on is the Kingston. Sounds pretty dull in comparison to the others. did you cut in on plastic or lacquer?

[flozki]

i havent downloaded and listen to the tracks yet.
but i think this test is great but needs a certain standard prcedure
i suggest the following :

1. one song is needed.all need same song. 1minute is enough. i can provide webspace to download.

2. start always at same diameter. i suggest at 11 inch.
3. first start with nab reference level 1khz for 20seconds. 0dbu=40.51mm
yes you can do that only if you have a testrecord. but i can give you the correcture factor....
4. 5 seconds of pause.
5 start the track.

i can prepare and everybody can download. i suggest to keep it on 1min approx. so download is not that huge....

then cut it with your system.
then send me the record. i can digitize it with a good needle. aligned preamp.
shure v15. sme3012 garrard301 turntable.

then we have always the same condition.....

[fraggle]

@ bongo
do you really think so?
i personally think the kinston has the most dynamic and sounds the clearest appart from the scully cut so far.
those vinylrecorder cuts are good sounding but i still find em a little bit too harsh. cheers

[TotalSonic]

One thing that makes this test a little limited in its validity is that we're introducing big variables of different styli/cartridge/tonearm/turntable/phono-preamp/analog-digital converter that will color the results themselves before getting to compare the samples of the cutting systems.

It would be a lot more equal if people first took heed of all of Flo's suggested test parameters - and then had the discs all transfered using the same exact transcription setup for each one at the same place- and then had the results level matched before they were posted. I'd be glad to do this final step for folks if they want to send me the discs.

Best regards,
Steve Berson