original RIAA curve with T560 (bypass souri's main unit)

[marcy108]

hi all.
i'm doing record cutting with souri's vinylrecorder T560 from one year ago.
today,big problem came out to me.
my main unit was broken.
symptom is one channel make very big noise,one channel don't make noise but volume is very small when i use main unit.

of course,i ask to souri for repair it.but souri don't mail back me...
i use T560 for business.so i have no time.

for that reason now i'm trying to bypass main unit.that mean make original RIAA curve by DAW's EQ.
but it's so difficult.
at moment,this is best(attached img).
but it's not enough.still far from master.

is it needed something except for EQ?
if anybody have knowledge.
please help me.

any advice would be appreciated!
best regard.
MARCY

[markrob]

Hi,

Besides the standard RIAA curve, you will have to apply additional EQ to flatten the response of the head. The amount of EQ needed will be quite severe. You should make some measurements of the head with no RIAA on either the recording or playback side to see how much additional EQ is needed. You might be surprised how much is needed.

Mark

[aaron]

I've used the CurveEQ VST plugin in the past for making EQ corrections.. it's pretty nice, you can take a source file, cut it, record it back, and come up with an EQ curve that will make your source cut correctly.

http://www.voxengo.com/product/curveeq/

I believe the trial version will let you test it out, but inserts a tone or something every few seconds.

[hyaenamx]

Hello, I am a VR T560 user, and I have read here everything I could about the machine, its handling, configuration and possible problems, before commenting on any post

Now I am in the middle of a strong problem, I found this post, and I would like to know if you found a solution to the problem.

Here I describe it:

My stylus especially Myshank last around 5 working hours and noise starts to arise.

In the case of souri stylus, they can work up to 50 or 60 hours and the noise begins.

After 6 months like this now I have a very pronounced noise on the right side, when I change the stylus the noise disappears and after certain hours it comes back again.

These symptoms coincide with this and another post by marcy 108, and I would like to know what the applied situation was. I do not find in the answers here, something similar.

I already did everything I could, send the cutterhead for review with Souri and he says it's fine

I asked at some point in My shank to know why they lasted so little in my case and they told me to change the stylus to verify that.

For now, the support with Souri is over, and it is not necessary to comment on well-known details.

My setting is: Mac (Logic)> Zoom L12 livetrak> Optimizer> Main unit> Amp> Cutterhead.

my shank stylus wieght 45g back, 12g front
souri banks: heat to 40 to 45 degrees
souri denoiser liquid
turtle wax
the last thing souri says was stop using talkum powder in the mat

I also consulted Rubenr, via Instagram, and he suggested that I check the counterweight and front weight and check all the signal flow, we changed cables, changed the amplifier and the problem continues.

I also texted Marcy 108 without success.

I hope you can help me.

Thank you.

Mexico City.

[tragwag]

how do your grooves look under the microscope?
12G sounds really light, you could have some lifting up going on.
I'm at 15G minimum, usually closer to 20G.
if your blanks are uneven at all during cutting you'll hear a fluctuation in noise

also try cutting without the audio path involved so you can find out if it's a stylus problem or an audio path problem

[hyaenamx]

Thank you for replying.

grooves look fine and plays good with different turntables, no skips.
sometimes i use my shank stylus at 15 g but a little wow comes. that´s why i choose to get back to the lower limit my shank tell.
with souri´s i use 15 g new and 20 for used.

I try to use the lower values in the stylus to prevent to heavy action would be killing the stylus so fast.

what do you think?

[hyaenamx]

For everyone reading, I have a sample of the noise that is killing my recordings

Made with a new myshank stylus and a 12 " black 1.5 from Souri.

You can hear the noise below the recording here.

https://soundcloud.com/fiatsonus/vinyl-noises-on-record/s-mftVoXNbSmI

sometimes the noise disappears or is almost imperceptible with 7 "

This all sounds like the suction tube to me but when I do 7 "the tube is still there and there is no noise.

At another time I have thought about the motor that carries the cutterhead.

But .... i´m very confused about this, my businness is going to hell and i can´t find effective support.

Thanks and greetings from Mexico

[hyaenamx]

To tragwag.

About the audio chain.

I removed and put the plugin chain in the Logic master

I changed the audio interface

I removed and put every Souri´s hardware

I even re-recorded from a CD player

Change the amplifier

And nothing, the noise is still there.


Thank you.

[2bitcomputer]

wtf was that?
I think your T560 is haunted!

[jonty2k]

Sounds like vibration from your vaccum, try cutting without suction and use a brush for the chip to see if it cuts without the noise, is your vaccum leaning / sitting on the table / floor close to the machine?

[SueDenim]

How fast is the pitch motor running during that example cut? i.e. what's the number on the main unit dial
Sounds like pitch motor vibration noise to me, given that you can hear the motor being switched on just after you drop the cutting head.

As for the squeaks, I suggest experimenting with different cutting angles. You could also try reseating the stylus to make sure it's absolutely straight.

[hyaenamx]

> 2bitcomputer

Yes sometimes I think that a Chaneke (a kind of naughty devil from Mexico) lives inside my machine.

>jonty2k

I did a new test of recording without a vacuum, my vacuum is in the next room about 2.5 meters from the wall where the machine is, I moved it to the other end of the room and removed the deposit from the base of the t560 and I think there is improvement.

But thanks to that test I just found that there are 3 types of noise when I record.

1. a type of low frequency rumble. (maybe from the overhead motor)

2. Another type of friction or white noise type sound more in the middle zone that is removed if I do not use the vacuum.

3. a type of high-pitched whistle that is generated because there is not enough space for the suction tube and when the stylus is lowered, it resonates with the slight movements that the blank makes when turning.

>SueDenim

the green dial is between 10 and 20 I would say that at 16, that measurement gives me the perfect space to make a 20-minute record of music.

I think with you that it can be the engine of the overhead because
As the carriage advances to the center of the disc, the noise is easily masked.

I moved the angle of the stylus and recenter it and gained a bit of treble response and the gap for the suction tube opened a bit.


I think this problem comes with the stylus from myshank record in great way but, they are too small they are at least 2 mm smaller than Souri's, I wrote to them to know if that was normal but there was no response.

I even let them know that in the graphic instructions on Myshank's site the photo was of a Souri stylus because there is definitely not that gap between the cutterhead, suction tube and the surface of the disc.

I do not see other posts where this topic is addressed, maybe there could be a problem in the dimensions of my cutterhead
Who can know?

Thanks for your recommendations, any other ideas?

[Discomo]

I think there can be some improvement when you put the pitch dial at 18-20. Then you can cut louder and the cuttingnoise is less on the foreground.
I hear low rumble, which can be the pitchmotor, like Sue says; and I hear a high frequency scratching, which can be friction of the stylus. Is the overhead (metal bar) of your VR in the right angle?
Pitchmotor noise can be removed: https://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6826&p=53710&hilit=pitchmotor+noise+psu#p53710

[hyaenamx]

>Discomo

The axis of the top bar is correct I did the check with the line on a disk as recommended by the myshank site.

I increased the value of the green dial (21) and managed to lower the rumble a lot, anyway I will follow the advice of the link you share.

And with that I just checked that Noise is from the vacuum indeed.

I further modified the cutting angle to make it straighter and the high-pitched noise went down as well.

The noise that persists is that of the vacuum, I can hear the resonance between the tube and the disc, there is simply not enough space, the stylus is too small, I want to continue using the myshank stylus, but I have this problem.

the tube is too close to the record and makes resonance, if I raise the tube a little it avoid from touching the record.

here is a video, If i reach to vanish the noise of vacuum i will follow to work right.

[Discomo]

>Discomo

The axis of the top bar is correct I did the check with the line on a disk as recommended by the myshank site.

I increased the value of the green dial (21) and managed to lower the rumble a lot, anyway I will follow the advice of the link you share.

And with that I just checked that Noise is from the vacuum indeed.

I further modified the cutting angle to make it straighter and the high-pitched noise went down as well.

The noise that persists is that of the vacuum, I can hear the resonance between the tube and the disc, there is simply not enough space, the stylus is too small, I want to continue using the myshank stylus, but I have this problem.

the tube is too close to the record and makes resonance, if I raise the tube a little it avoid from touching the record.

here is a video, If i reach to vanish the noise of vacuum i will follow to work right.

Be careful to always use the small swivel handle on the right side of the cuttinghead because yr stylus can be damaged rather quickly.

What is the following order of how you work? It should always be like this: pitchmotor on- amp on, stylus drop. When the disc is cut, the exact reversed order. Try to make this second nature. There's a reason for this.

Good to hear yr finding the cause of the unwanted noise. The VR is a fragile aparatus which works great when all the parameters are right. But this can be difficult sometimes to reach or even to keep.
I personally marked some places on the VR to remember it's positions. Made photo's for reference, etc. I also make notes of every new project, like pitchspeed+mainvolume, length of LP sides, etc.
Basically I find it would be a great improvement when one day the stylus drop/lift can be automated (for instance with Arduino) instead of having to do it manually.

[hyaenamx]

Discomo, the order is correct, i did the work like that, no doubt.

yes i try to manage the drop of the cutterhead very carefully, but for the video im trying to show the whistle that comes when the stylus is close to pipe.

After i sent the video i make a disc and found, one noise masks the other If a record with vacuum the rumble goes by, if i turn off the vacuum the rumble comes.
i suspect the noises are there but the filtration in record discard the lower of the two noises.

Are you using myshank stylus?
do you have problems with size of it? its just my lack of experience?


But after read ALL te topics of problems in tr560 im very dissapointed.

Thank you for your time, this times when i swim hard waters, the help is very apreciated.

[Discomo]

I personally find the styli of Souri better. Always clean in sound.
From Myshank I had several styli which had distortions from the get go.
Very disappointing.

I can't exactly say if it's lack of experience. Working with the VR I find can have a steep learningcurve, but once you find the sweet spot of your machine, things seem to go pretty easy from there.
It took me some time and frustration to get things right. When you follow through you will solve the noise issue, I'm certain.
Best thing I can suggest is focusing on each separate noise separately and to go through the entire chain step by step.
What kind of suction do you use?

[hyaenamx]

Yes, Souri´s works fine but, maybe i have to wait 2 months for re-sharpening because de mail delays. That´s why i´m trying to use Myshank but, it have no right size for my cutterhead and causes problems with suction.

The suction pipe is the original of the VR, and the vacuum is a industrial kind that Souri sells to me. i`ll attach a photo.

WhatsApp Image 2021-02-12 at 4.12.14 PM.jpeg

[Discomo]

Interesting to see the Suction for the VR. It's the Rietschle VTE 8 (now Thomas Piccolino VTE 8.
It's a great suction, but needs annual change of the filter and vanes http://oxydent.nl/en/pumps-rotary-vane/rietschle-thomas-picolino/
If it's making more noise than when you first bought it, it may be a good idea to change these.
Perhaps a variac can be useful also, to lower the airflow (and sound), but you need to ask Souri if he hasn't already put a limiter on it.

About the low hum, it can also be an earthloop which can be removed by putting rubbers under the main unit, amp, (etc) and to remove the grounding (of course this is potentially dangerous)

I'd def look into the postlink about the pitchmotornoise. Lots of other great tips there.

[Discomo]

Just a side question, what kind of filter do you use in the chip canister? Is it the iron grid which came with the VR or something else?