starting a war here... (cutting on virgin vinyl related)

[sat159p1]

I've been across many "lathe cutting service" websites today. Lots of those who offer "high quality" record cutting claims that their material is not plexi, plastic plates or anything like that and they cut or REAL vinyl (some claims also that is VIRGIN VINYL). It makes me laugh every time, but I'm also mad, because a lot of people are asking me why my cuts are on plastic and not "real vinyl" (and sending me links to THAT sites).

I made a lot of tests on pressed blanks and they're just too hard for cutting it on VR/Neumanns/HQ lathes with a diamond. No way getting HQ sound on pressed/virgin blanks.

AND

I also know that probably all of you guys writing that bullsh*t are here, so my question is why do you lie to your clients? Should I share here links to your services?

[alexsation]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vu9P9lrKXgA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=glHFW9fvY8g
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4-el6M_Tlo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vI5p0B_W47g

This is a real pressure vinyl !!
Sound quality is very high , diamonds break as the match , but the cut is possible !!!

[Gridlock]

Sorry if you live in a big city with one or more other trolls. Everybody loves records but few understand the magic of them. Let the haters hate and move on. I would even strongly recommend going locals only. you can have a good clientele while still doing things your way. Stay true to your beliefs and make a difference.

Side note: has anyone seen the x files episode lazarus? They talk about how people long long long ago recorded sound on pottery which is true. The hopi, the chinese, egyptians, all that jive. Also its edison's only "invention" to work on the first try. Makes me wonder.

Side b: very glad none of the political candidates make vinyl an issue. Keep your laws off my lathe haha good night all!

[MEGAMIKE]

h i all
to sat1 dont worry about a spade is a spade boring crap,iam sure they think that your there lifes problems.. ur doing a good job keep at that..

and gridlock side A/B,the audio would have been more of an instrument to them than a recording devise however iam sure that some bone lathe guy sitting in a 13th century bazar heard some shit/noise like a crowd from the market repeat through his lathe while cutting on something thin..
and for edison ...its very too close an invention to charles cross,s description at a french sience fair that same year....then bang 4months later edisons got one going..

and to go off a bit more what about all the books that were burned at alexandria library ..what was lost there only god knows ..

ive never seen an episode of xfiles sorry and even ET...but i love close encounters and starwars hahahaah..
and the 2 new candidates for america is very bad for the country.. not much of a choice at all..
well atleast you will have the first lesbian as leader..not been one for 2ooo years..

biglovemega

[mischmerz]

and the 2 new candidates for america is very bad for the country.. not much of a choice at all..
well atleast you will have the first lesbian as leader..not been one for 2ooo years..

I would very much appreciate it if we could keep politics out of this forum. As the political climate is already heated and polarized I would hate to see politics spilling into the discussions here as well.

Thank you.

Michaela

[MEGAMIKE]

are you not a politician?? what i read on your blog is great ..
but i understand.this is not the place to do it.but we are all human and the next few months can change the world..

biglovemega.

[JP_]

There are even people who sell their cuts to a fairly low price and reclaim theres also a separate mastering step included in the service. All for under 30 bucks and even without sitting in a solid listening environment. What they call "mastering" is just the same fixed pre-processing we all do to provide a good cut. Thats much more scam than confusing vinyl with PVC for me and such a behaviour is simply amateurish and will destroy the market in a long run.
Im doing both: (real) mastering for all medias and dubplate cutting and my rates for the latter are quite lower. Nevertheless clients occasionally think they will get a master for free when they order a lathe cut...

[pellegrino707]

Hi sat1

I cut on real and virgin vinyl, do you what does means?
I cut on PVC blanks, not pressed, but PVC (not PC, lexan macrolon...), this means that i cut on REAL VINYL.
I don't write on my website to cut on pressed vinyl, i say to cut on vinyl, and that's true because vinyl and pvc are the same thing, vinyl is just a short word for Polyvinylchlorid.

That's it!

So please, be relaxed....

[sat159p1]

Show me how to cut on real PRESSED vinyl, that looks like pressed, has beveled edges, etc.
And with HQ quality (i do not mean presto etc).

I know that most of PC and in general "plastics" are very near PVC's vinyl record formula, but that's still "plastic plates", not a blank pressed vinyl.

[Gridlock]

Ive cut on blank pressed with great results before....well i guess it doesnt count cuz i used a presto but i think erica records presses blanx hella cheap

[pellegrino707]

I know that most of PC and in general "plastics" are very near PVC's vinyl record formula, but that's still "plastic plates", not a blank pressed vinyl.

Man, i just think you are very confused...

PC and PVC are very different formulas, two different materials.

For what i know, the only two persons selling PVC blanks are Myshank and Souri. If you cut PVC blanks you cut real vinyl, even more virgin than the one used for pressed records.
If you cut PC blanks, you cut PC, or plastic or whatever, but not vinyl.

No one state to cut pressed records, because actually doesn't have much sense since it is a way harder material than Myshank blanks, so you will consume your stylus way faster and get worse sound.

[sat159p1]

I know that most of PC and in general "plastics" are very near PVC's vinyl record formula, but that's still "plastic plates", not a blank pressed vinyl.

Man, i just think you are very confused...
PC and PVC are very different formulas, two different materials.
For what i know, the only two persons selling PVC blanks are Myshank and Souri. If you cut PVC blanks you cut real vinyl, even more virgin than the one used for pressed records.
If you cut PC blanks, you cut PC, or plastic or whatever, but not vinyl.
No one state to cut pressed records, because actually doesn't have much sense since it is a way harder material than Myshank blanks, so you will consume your stylus way faster and get worse sound.

What? Souri and Myshank does not sell "vinyl" or PVC. Do you even know what you're talking about?! These are not REAL VINYL or VIRGIN VINYL. These are plastic plates, extruded. Not made from mold like vinyl records.

I work with plastics. I made my own fornulas for HQ cutting (chemically) - transparent and now working on white ones (almost ready). I just made them in cooperation with chemical company. Souris or myshank black records are not even black, they are covered by 0,2mm transparent layer on both sides!

Think again.

[mischmerz]

What? Souri and Myshank does not sell "vinyl" or PVC. Do you even know what you're talking about?! These are not REAL VINYL or VIRGIN VINYL. These are plastic plates, extruded. Not made from mold like vinyl records.

I work with plastics. I made my own fornulas for HQ cutting (chemically) - transparent and now working on white ones (almost ready). I just made them in cooperation with chemical company. Souris or myshank black records are not even black, they are covered by 0,2mm transparent layer on both sides!

Think again.

Vinyl is a plastic polymer. It's pure form (vinyl chloride) is a white, brittle solid. Molding, extruding or any other mechanical working has nothing to do with the material itself. I don't know the exact composition of myshank's blanks, I don't know the exact composition of my PVC pipes and I also don't know the exact composition of the vinyl used to press records. But IMHO they're all "vinyl" - or, well, plastic. So unless myshank chimes in, that's pretty much all to say about this topic.

m.

[handcut]

What? Souri and Myshank does not sell "vinyl" or PVC. Do you even know what you're talking about?! These are not REAL VINYL or VIRGIN VINYL.

Please, enlighten us, what is "real vinyl"???

It is my understanding that "real vinyl" is made from a co-polymer of poly vinyl choloride (PVC) and poly vinyl acetate (PVAC), plus other additives including, but not limited to, colourings such as carbon blacking (basically soot). I may be a little off with some of this info and would appreciate confirmation or correction from somebody who knows...

It is also my understanding that 'real' "virgin vinyl" is actually a blend of fresh and recycled vinyl.

Finally, it is my understanding that the cutting layer of the blanks I use is not recycled material and that the material in question is plasticised PVC, so it softens when heated instead of just warping.

There are about as many different types of vinyl as there are additives, but they still get called vinyl.

Would it be better if we all said 'previously unused plasticised PVC-based phonograph disc transcripton service'?

[sat159p1]

Well, most of "clients" are folks that do not understand anything we're talking about here. The need a product which is "exact" the same as pressed vinyl records that they buy in record shops. So HQ lathe cutters who say that "we're cutting REAL vinyl" or saying that its the same as pressed is a lie for them. Has beveled edges, a bit sign of pressing in the center like the labels, multiple colours, splatters etc.

...AND the product they receive is lathe-cut extruded plastic that is not even black, it's covered thin layer of transaprent soft plastic and it has hand beveled egdes that does not even look like "real record", it's blackness is around 70-80% of a real black pressed record. And colours/split/splatters are not possible. Funny!

I do not want to ellaborate about PVC chemical structure and what is and what is not. Just do not call this material idenntical to "pressed record" or "real vinyl" or "virgin vinyl" because it is not. Completely different technologogy in making that, and only thing that it has common with REAL vinyl record is their plastic family and that it is round and has a sound put in the grooves. This is what I wanted to say,

Peace!

[The Shank]

...AND the product they receive is lathe-cut extruded plastic that is not even black, it's covered thin layer of transaprent soft plastic and it has hand beveled egdes that does not even look like "real record", it's blackness is around 70-80% of a real black pressed record. And colours/split/splatters are not possible. Funny!

What a damned shitty product! It's a shame to sell that!

[tragwag]

to the original poster:
it seems your issue is actually with the terminology of the companies offering the cut, not with the blank supplier at all.

I would argue that across the language barrier, and in the mainstream public mindset, vinyl is an acceptable term.
It helps those companies to connect to their audience, usually more novice collectors and bands who only know the main terms "vinyl, pressing, pressing" etc.

PERSONALLY - I reject the term as my records are lathe cut one at a time, and I don't even want to be compared to pressed records.
I know for an absolute fact if I started throwing around the word vinyl to refer to my business, I'd reach a larger market, and have less confusion.
But I much prefer to educate folks on what they'll be getting from me, and that is lathe cut records. if they pry further, I answer with "cut on plastic, not vinyl".

[sat159p1]

tragwag, thanks for clearing my thoughts. It's exactly what I wanted to say. I'm not blaming souri, myshank or the others - they sell plastics, not real virgin vinyl so everything is OK there.

What a damned shitty product! It's a shame to sell that!

Don't get me wrong, it's not a shitty product(s), it's very good!
I'm just fighting wrong naming on some websites offering your/souri's (great) products.

[Gridlock]

Its not a virgin i put it on my 45 spindle a few times

[mischmerz]

tragwag, thanks for clearing my thoughts. It's exactly what I wanted to say. I'm not blaming souri, myshank or the others - they sell plastics, not real virgin vinyl so everything is OK there.

What ? *head spinning* What the hell is "virgin vinyl" ? Do you have any idea what goes in and what comes out of an extruder before it is pressed into a record? Why would that be "virgin" vinyl and other vinyl would not be "virgin" ?

plastic_extruded.jpg

What is "virgin" about this piece of plastic?

m.