How to eliminate the echo on my VR?

[iamtasha]

I've had my VR for a few months now. No matter what I try I seem to be getting an echo on my tracks. With loud, full tracks it isn't noticeable however I've been cutting a lot of acoustic stuff recently and it sounds terrible because of it.

I've tried widening the grooves to prevent pre-echo but it doesn't make any difference.

The problem is the sound from the playback stylus is being picked up by the cutter head and being re-cut. My input for cutting is at 0dB as per the level meters. When I turn this down it does reduce the echo but then the playback volume on the disc is ridiculous.

The only way to prevent it I have found is to cut without the playback stylus on the groove, which obviously makes picking up on any problems mid-cut impossible.

Has anyone else had this problem and found any work around for it?

Thanks!

[handcut]

Are you using Souri's DJ mixer?

[iamtasha]

I am using his standard mixer, is that likely to be a factor?

I’ve removed the vinyl optimiser and monitor switcher opting for a more streamlined laptop into soundcard approach. That then inputs to the main unit provided as standard.

Thanks.

[handcut]

I can't remember properly, I haven't used the mixer for years (it was the first part of the standard set-up to go), but I have a vague memory of some crosstalk betwen the signal to the head and the signal back from the pickup.

[tragwag]

two things: I don't monitor during the cut, that could be your problem
also what groove distance are you cutting at? this sounds like pre-echo due to grooves that are 'kissing'

[2bitcomputer]

+1 on souris DJ mixer being the problem - there is definitely crosstalk going on with that thing.
I always monitor the cut, but I do it with headphones - Monitoring with speakers could cause a post echo problem.

[boryo]

Have you tried to lower the weight on the pickup stylus? I don't have VR but sometimes when I set too much weight on my needles and touching the headshell I can feel the grooves with my fingers.

Best regards,
Bob

[Discomo]

Physically it's impossible to get pre echo from the playbackhead. Because it plays it BACK. After it's already cut.

[tragwag]

Physically it's impossible to get pre echo from the playbackhead. Because it plays it BACK. After it's already cut.

yeah I know that, my two questions were separate.
what groove distance are you cutting at? could still be pre/post echo from grooves that are too close together

[iamtasha]

Thanks for all the replies.

2bitcomputer - I always monitor through headphones so no chance it’s the speakers causing the issue

Tragwag - I’ve tried turning the groove distance all the way up to maximum width. It doesn’t appear to make any difference to the echo sound.

Boryo - I shall try less weight on the playback head next - that’s my bank holiday weekend sorted! I hadn’t thought of that!

Other than that I think I’ll be looking for a new mixer. Any recommedations? The one provided is quite a Frankenstein.

I’m not sure cutting everything without monitoring is going to be an option. Just wanting to guarantee good quality and the only way I feel I can do that is by listening to each record as it’s cut. I don’t want to miss any defects!

[Discomo]

Physically it's impossible to get pre echo from the playbackhead. Because it plays it BACK. After it's already cut.

yeah I know that, my two questions were separate.
what groove distance are you cutting at? could still be pre/post echo from grooves that are too close together

My remark was for the TS

[Discomo]

I don’t want to miss any defects!

Like Tragwag I also don't monitor during the cut. And I don't have any problems like missing defects. When you make a proper testcut all following cuts should be ok. I check the audio every 10 cuts or so, but only randomly; not the entire record. I check visually each record, but not with a scope. Until now this has worked well. Its just too tiring to listen to each record, the same music over & over again.

If you don't have the problem without the playbackneedle in the grooves during the cut I'd definitely suggest to try cutting without it.

A side question; don't you have wow issues with the playbackneedle in the groove while cutting? I had this issue myself.

[iamtasha]

I’ve not noticed any audible wow on my cuts. I might use the test cut provided again and have another closer listen.

I am using the newer Tehnics SL1200GR though. It has waaay more torque than the older ones.


Seems a good consensus for cutting without the playback stylus though, I may rethink my stance on that!

[busdeez]

Hi Iamtasha, i've been cutting for more than 2 years with Souri's frankenstein mixer but never had any echo or crosstalk issue. That being said I recently tried to change the audio path and make it better/cleaner, instead of using a dj mixer I decided to go passive and use the Palmer Monicon Pro that provides 2 simultaneous outs. If the mixer causes that issue this could be a cheap solution to try!Do you know what's the actual torque on the 1200GR?I'm using a Stanton ST150 and wow and flutter are gone:)Good luck!

[iamtasha]

I'm honestly not sure about the torque on it..... Souri did the test with the spring measure tool he had and it maxed that out straight away!

According to the product page it is: Starting Torque: 2.2 kg/cm

The Palmer looks good, something I hadn't even considered! I'm still learning exactly how Souri's kit has been put together before completely removing a key component!

Thanks for all the advice. I'm so happy I'm not the only one who doesn't have wow problems, I thought I was doing something very wrong

[Discomo]

I'm using a Stanton ST150 and wow and flutter are gone:)Good luck!

That's fantastic. I read the Stanton has 4,5 torque vs 1,5 of the Technics SL1210 mk2. Thats amazing.
Did the Stanton fit on the VR right away or did you had to do some adjustments?

[SUNBEARS]

Echo is likely from the grooves kissing. Increase groove distance or lower disc volume!

Cheers!

[busdeez]

I'm using a Stanton ST150 and wow and flutter are gone:)Good luck!

That's fantastic. I read the Stanton has 4,5 torque vs 1,5 of the Technics SL1210 mk2. Thats amazing.
Did the Stanton fit on the VR right away or did you had to do some adjustments?

Stanton's starting torque is 4,5 so let's suppose that while the platter is rotating we have at least double the torque of a sl1200, that's seems to be enough for me. Had to do many extra adjustments, and shift up the cutterhead around 7 mm, with no rubber feet on the Stanton. The platter seems to be more stable now, but still try to have someone making a custom alluminum platter for the cause:)