Issue with deep grooves

[humanoid]

Hi, platting gurus!

Some strange issue with deep grooves (especially on deep spots, but not only on it, some were seen on common grooves) after platting and pressing. It looks like metal chips.
But it ain't on laquer in the same places.
I've attached some pics.

Groove chip1.jpg

Groove Cjip2.jpg

Groove chip3.jpg

GrooveChip4 small.jpg

can It may cause crackled distorted sound on loud passages which i hear after pressing?
Moreover, we got scabrous ragged edges of practically all grooves, and it may cause permanent noise and light clicks.

Is it nickel, electrolyte quality problems or else?

Thanks!

[mossboss]

Looks like Bad silvering man !!!!
Make sure that the spray from the two nozzles of the gun meet at the lacquer surface and not before hand
It looks like the silver has gone off before it hit the lacquer
This causes "lumps" of silver which attract far more current than the rest of the silvered surface area causing crackling as well as popping noises
It can also be caused by foreign particles in the air line which embed them shelves on the lacquer
Do you use an oil less compressor? Have you an absolute air filter at the end of the water and oil trap?
These are essential items they need to be before the air line gets to the spray gun?
If you want to confirm contamination use the Argon from your cutting lathe to do a few lacquers with Use that as the medium instead of air but clean everything up beforehand so the test has some meaning
If the problem disappears than you have your answer
You can also use any compressed neutral gas that may be available but for a few lacquers a little Argon will not break the bank and it is already there
By the way make sure you use no more than 10-25 PSI as air pressure as anything higher will drive foreign particles in to the lacquer ruining it
In other words if you do get a bad silvering job on a lacquer you can strip it off the lacquer as normal than attempt the process again
But if it is damaged by high pressure air which does the above than it is another cut so as low air pressure as possible its the story "human???"
Cheers

[humanoid]

Thanks for your tips, Chris! we'll see this issue as thoroughly as possible.
Fortunately, our production is not too big and we have close communication with all who involved in the process. I do laquers and others does platting and pressing next door.

not quite clearly understood about argon, do you mean use it as "pressed air" for get rid of dust? (after, before cutting). cause we dont have any compressor in mastering room. We take fresh laquer and record it immediately, then store it in empty box and drive to the factory. And only there guys use air, immediately before silvering. Further process is another question, which we will investigate.

by the way, whats the 'human' story you mean?)

[mossboss]

Just a play on the words man,, Humanoid!! Human?? whatever
Any way
Use Argon or a bottled gas that you know is clean rather or instead of the compressed air from the air compressor
This is just to prove the point in your searches
If the problem goes away than you have your answer
Cheers

[concretecowboy71]

I have seen those ragged edges on disc that end up having a continuous light crackle through the record. Mossman...is this related to the silver issues you spoke about? We are trying to determine if it is silvering or lacquers that cause this.

[opcode66]

Why was this cut with 7 mil unmodulated grooves???? You are going too deep. Low volume should be 2 mils. High volume 3.5 mils wide. Why 7?

[concretecowboy71]

7mils? I dont see that on the last photo. On my reticule, one division equals. 5 mils. Looks like these are between 3 and 3.5 mils. Unless we are looking at different photos. I am looking at the bottom of the three photos with straight, unmodulated grooves.

[concretecowboy71]

Could be metric also. The numbering system in the photo is different than my reticule.

[opcode66]

The line marked 5 in the picture nearly lines up with the left edge of one of the grooves in the picture. The right wall of the groove is about 6 ticks over. There are only 3 more visible ticks to the line marked 6.

So, about 6 ticks wide (not 7). Whatever each tick means on that scale. Guessing that isn't in mils then...

I looked at this picture quickly. If it were on my scope, that would be grooves that are 6 to 7 mils wide. Now I see, the graduation isn't the same at all on closer inspection.

[jjgolden]

This could also be handling damage to the metal masters or stampers. i.e. when the grooves are outward the "peaks" are damaged by handling or poor separation from the lacquer.

Pic #4 looks like nonfill.

JJG

[humanoid]

Our scale is metric. We did photos by mobile phone camera, may be it does some visual distortion.
Problem gone.
We changed electrolyte, sounds better at all costs.

[mossboss]

Brave People and deep pockets, about an $8+ K exercise
Question: Why?
It easy to adjust electrolyte parameters at a far less cost than replacing it
Nickel Carbonate will bring nickel content up to scratch, It should be around the 75 grams per litre
Further addition of Sulfamic acid to bring Sulfamate up to around the 310+ its easy to do
The electrolyte is a mixture of these two components
Did someone overheated it and ruined it?
Generally, in our game, anode efficiency is around the 100% with Cathode at 98%
That is with the use of D chips, (Electro chips are slightly different and P nickel different again)
The 2 odd % replenishes the Nickel in the solution or electrolyte which is the Ion donor
So unless you have stripped a lot of the dissolved nickel out of it, easily done at low levels of anodes in the baskets, it should last forever
Even than one can bring it up to specification, assuming a small loss of dissolved Nickel it is not a hard task
If dissolved nickel is bellow 50-60 grams per litre it is still viable to recover it, but it needs a week or more of dummy plating, which stops production, So it is a case of weighing up what is best
Point been that there is never a need to replace it, assuming the baths remain within a temperature range which never exceeds 60 C
Close associate has run the same solution for 15 years, he had to buy it after an accident, all the solution was lost in the drain due to a burst pipe in the system
He now has the whole setup in a Bunded area

Curious
Cheers

[humanoid]

We conducted an independent examination of the electrolyte. It turned out that there are a lot of impurities. He was just dirty. Unidentified small particles have been found. We had to replace it anyway.