Vinyl Record Press for the brave and Knowledgable Man

[mossboss]

Listed on ebay under $4K and most likely you could get it for less
80 TON MODEL 4-POST HYDRAULIC AUTOMATIC TRIMMER #24505
Item number: 200316672569
This press most likely will do the trick You still need all the add ons like a dieset an extruder as well as some heating and cooling but it is going to be a lot less of an excersise in the back pocket than a $20K SMT just for the press
An extruder from a junked injection moulding machine hooked on the existing hydraulics should do the trick
A junked water chiller for the same thing an injection moulder would give one enough cooling water for a closed system
They go around here for about $2-3 K I do not think they be much more over there (wherever you are)
A boiler at 100 psi should be less than $2k and a set of brand new molds about $4 K, second hand? No idea
Allow for a steam valve a water valve and some piping No idea on labour charges there (plumber any one? I do it all myself more that once they are rogues around here)
It should be fast enough as it has pump and hydraulics on the top which means prefill of the large ram as it goes down
They are fairly fast any way as it is a trimming press
If any one is any good with hydraulics a couple of jacking cylinders and an accumulator will make it even faster however you need to slow it right down on the bottom stroke the last 1/4 of an inch or so, it may need another valve and a micro switch on it to do that I would have thought less than a 1/2 a minute cycle is feasable for it, if you limit it'savelling stroke as you don't need this much for records any way it is sturdy enough judging from the photo at any rate
May be a bit light for a 12" as it is but a little twiging may get you another 10 odd tonne pressure which should do the trick
If the tie rods are about 4" it will certainly take 100+ tonne
A bit more heat on the vinyl not a problem at the rated tonnage regrdless
So for about $13K for gear and $2-3K for the hydraulic man's charges you can be a Vinyl Record Pressing Shop and have all the fun under the sun Keep Vinyl alive
Pitty is not in my part of the world it would have been a piece of cake
Cheers

[blacknwhite]

So for about $13K for gear and $2-3K for the hydraulic man's charges you can be a Vinyl Record Pressing Shop and have all the fun under the sun Keep Vinyl alive
Pitty is not in my part of the world it would have been a piece of cake
Cheers

Awesome post - thanks again Mossboss, all your posts are so informative, you really should write The Book when you have free time -

Can we make a Requirements List out of this, for how to shop for a press to be modified into a "reasonably-well-suited" record press?:

- 100 ton or close to it

- plenty clearance for add-on steam, water piping & heating/cooling platens

- bonus for speed: pump and hydraulics on top "which means prefill of the large ram as it goes down" (I'd have to read up to figure out whats "prefill")

- "They are fairly fast any way as it is a trimming press" - sorry, not very knowledgeablea bout presses - whats a "trimming press"? Terminology for a press that comes down generally hard & fast enough to both shape and also trim edges off from whatever you're pressing? (guess)

- Are there any inherent advantages of a 4-post press over a book-type hinged press? Generally sturdier / more reliable? Stronger / faster cycle time?

- "If the tie rods are about 4" it will certainly take 100+ tonne" - any suggestion on minimum guide rod diameter for 4-post press for 100-ton use? That may be more of a general "hydraulic press manufacturing guru" question...

- Any suggestions for minimum reccomended distance between posts, ram area, daylight, etc. - general dimensions - for 12" pressing? (I've never held 12" molds to see generally how much larger than 12" they are)


It'd be Awesome if it could be included in "The book", a major disclaimer saying this info isn't reccomended for anyone unless they hire expert help in the field of manufacturing / thermoforming machinery, but, here's tips on how to set up to press records using modified general-purpose press equipment...

- Bob

[dietrich10]

rhythmshack was selling a few on ebay last week

lened was very nice

[PALOMINO]

Hmmmmm, I wonder....

[mossboss]

Hmmmmm, I wonder....

I did say for the brave Whitehorse so Hmmmmm It's ok
Cheers

[mossboss]

- 100 ton or close to it

Yes you do need that amount of Tonnage

- plenty clearance for add-on steam, water piping & heating/cooling platens

These are bolted on the side as close as possible to the die There is always room on the sides of presses not a big issue

- bonus for speed: pump and hydraulics on top "which means prefill of the large ram as it goes down" (I'd have to read up to figure out whats "prefill")

Hydraulic pumps are high volume low pressure or high pressure low volume So to get up to the tonnes required and to save money on a two stage pump that will do both jobs but with a few more valves and controls manufacturers use one high pressure pump with a few smart tricks
They put the oil tank and pump on top of the press with a simple one way valve in the flow path, so as the ram start moving downwards it also sucks oil in as it moves along saving the pump a lot of work, so when it nears the bottom of the of it's travel where it needs to go Thump so as to do it's trick the valve shuts off due to pressure built up, the pump of course still delivers high pressure oil and it sure goes thump at the bottom of the stroke or where the job is sitting on it to be trimmed Most likely a alluminium casting or whatever
Another smart trick is to bore a hole into the main ram rod and have another rod say 1.5" rod a little less than the length of the main ram in it This rod has a hole right through where pressurised oil is fed It is bolted on the end plate of the main ram so it is solidly fixed In other word it does not move As it is only 1.5" in diameter about 4.5 odd square inches it pushes the main ram down very fast Of course the main ram also sucks in oil as it goes down and it fills up same as before Keep in mind that you need an area of 76 odd square inches so as to have 100 tonne pressure at around 2850 PSI oil pressure give or take a bit So the more travel it does the more volume of oil it needs It is a big surface area therefore a big piston or ram a lot of oil is required


- "They are fairly fast any way as it is a trimming press" - sorry, not very knowledgeablea bout presses - whats a "trimming press"? Terminology for a press that comes down generally hard & fast enough to both shape and also trim edges off from whatever you're pressing? (guess)

Good guess

- Are there any inherent advantages of a 4-post press over a book-type hinged press? Generally sturdier / more reliable? Stronger / faster cycle time?
SMT was just a standard 100 tonne press with an extruder A Shure Shot was the brand, as well as some automation added so as to produce records By the way most of the SMT record presses finished up in workshops as a 100 tonne four post press after all the record making bit's where taken off them and so was the EMI machines in the UK and here
Four post presses tend to be a bit slower due to longer travel, book type presses ie Alpha are very clever also some of the older book type machines are quite fast as they do not travel that much, since the operator slides out the book and he opens it up to remove the record When he loads up for another shot he closes the book and slides it back under the press so due to it's short travel distance they are quite fast

- "If the tie rods are about 4" it will certainly take 100+ tonne" - any suggestion on minimum guide rod diameter for 4-post press for 100-ton use? That may be more of a general "hydraulic press manufacturing guru" question...

It is a rule of thumb for presses that are made in the USA the Uk as well as Australia so long as the nuts holding the top and bottom platens together have not being machined down any more than thread depth the rule holds I have seen them made in China where they had 4" tie rods but about 3" nuts on the platens They break and the certainly anounce it very very loudly

- Any suggestions for minimum reccomended distance between posts, ram area, daylight, etc. - general dimensions - for 12" pressing? (I've never held 12" molds to see generally how much larger than 12" they are)

You would be surprised how small the Alpha's are they have a platen area of 400 x 400 mm or 15.75 x 15.75 inches they will take a die set and a mould insert for either 12" or 7" record interchangable as a die set

It'd be Awesome if it could be included in "The book", a major disclaimer saying this info isn't reccomended for anyone unless they hire expert help in the field of manufacturing / thermoforming machinery, but, here's tips on how to set up to press records using modified general-purpose press equipment...

May be one day who knows The way some of us going here the book can most likely start from these very post's here

- Bob

Here is what I have learned over the years Hydraulic equipment is initially very expensive Why? well they only get you once The stuff runs for years trouble free It has the best environment for long life
A warm to hot system =No moisture No rust
Oil running around=Perfect lubrication for metal parts
Excelent filters = no debris to wear parts out
Sealed system=Exclude all foreign matter out
So when you need spares you certainly pay for them but it may be 20 or 30 years before you do, so money well spend

By the way It is my considered view that The three column Alpha Delta machines were the best dedicated record producing presses ever made anywhere, some of them have pressed a few million records and are still running The automation on them was simple and very effective

Thank you for you kind words as well
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

- Are there any inherent advantages of a 4-post press over a book-type hinged press? Generally sturdier / more reliable? Stronger / faster cycle time?

The press is not hinged...just the moulds are hinged (or "book type"). The book type moulds slides in and out of the typically four column press where they are given a squeeze.