After read us i have some "several" questions about
here in my country i speak with a grandfather electroforming operator... after clean you need gravity spraying of tin clohride - distilled water solution in a rotating table
after you need gravity spraying of silver nitrate - distilled water solution
"gravity spraying" its a two diferent nozzles pistol one with distilled water and presion and the other one with the solution no?
Excuseme for my bad english
Many thanks!
2 step. Plating
Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn
Electroforming of Record Matrix
Marcos
Missed this post of yours so here you are
Stock Solutions
1.Silver Nitrate: 200 Grams Made up to 1 Litre with De ionized or distilled water
2.Sodium Hydroxide: 160 Grams made up to 1 litre De Ionized or distilled water
3.Reducer: DGlucose 1 KG + 500 mill of Formaldehyde made up to 4 Litres De Ionized or distilled water
4.Tin Chloride or Stannous 1000 Grams made up to 1 Litre with Concentrated Hydrochloric Acid
Working solutions
1.Wash as previous post
2.Stannous: 13 Mill of stock solution made up to 2 litres of d water
3.Reducer: 150 mill stock to 2 litres of d water
4. Silver: You need a few steps for this so here it is in order
1.add 100 mill of stock to about 800 mill of d water It may or may not go cloudy Next step if it goes cloudy if it stays clear go to step 3
2.While stirring add (30% concentration) ammonia until it is crystal clear.
Note: weaker ammonia also works you just need more of it
3: Add 25 mill of Sodium hydroxide stock do this while stirring. Note: It will go a dark colour
4. Add ammonia a few drops at a time initially than a drop at a time do this while stirring until it becomes crystal clear
5. Make it up to two litres with d water
Equipment:
Filtered water from the tap
D water in a twenty litre carboy with a tap on the bottom
You need 3 Glass or plastic containers to hold about 3 litres with some plastic tubing out of them at the bottom of course with little stop cocks attached so as to place your chemicals in Sit them Up high so gravity works Need to do it in a little booth with air suction ventilated to the outside
You can make up a manifold to bring all your tubes into it This can be made up with some 12 V garden sprinkler solenoids on a piece of thick pvc tubing.
You would need:
One solenoid each line in, 1 for filtered water, 1 for Dwater, 1 for tin, and two of them activated at the same time, 1 for Reducer and 1 for Silver
A main switch as well as one SPST switch for each solenoid as well as a DPST for the silver and reducer solenoids They can be mounted on a face plate with the manifold mounted behind it You can than turn them on and off easily or the manifold can be placed in a plastic box with a clear cover the switches can be mounted on the cover (Netafim solenoids work well about $10 each)
These are the inputs, along the length of the tube the outlet of the manifold at the end should go straight into the spray gun
Hook it to a spray gun with two liquid lines in Use a a glued plug with a 1/4 tail screwed in it at one and of the tube the outlet. Block the other end, or best to use another plug with a 1/4 tailpiece on it so as to feed your filtered water there if you want You can than flash the manifold clean with filtered water when you finish the job
1"or 25 mm OD heavy wall PVC tubing will do it, about 400 mm or 2 feet long Thick enough so you can drill and tap it for the solenoids Low voltage is the way to go as it does get wet there so you don't want high voltages around
Alternative for the low cost? or the non mechanical or electronics man:
You will need 4 spray guns with stainless steel tips on them (Cheap Chinese ones will do) Don't use the alluminium pots they come with they will ruin your chemicals in the process of ruining themselves Remove them and use your lines from your containers straight into the bit of pipe that hangs down
You need to have two of them ganged up so as to spray reducer and silver at the same time by placing them next to each other in some suitable way
This ganged pair needs to be triggered at the same time so as to have the same amount of silver and reducer coming out of them
These two chemicals should get mixed together at the face of the lacquer
The spray distance is also critical so 14"-15" is about right from spray gun to Lacquers, air pressure and liquid flow dependant
However if you adjust the spray pattern correctly for say a 10" to 14" square surface area 14"-15" distance is about right
Procedure and Definitions
D water=distilled or de ionized water
Pass = center to out and back to centre
Steps:
Wash your lacquers (previous post)
Place lacquer in spinning jig
You can rough up the centre as well as the edges of the lacquers with a Scotch pad right there as it spins on the jig
You can than spray wash the fines so as not to get them in the grooves they are dificult to get rid off
You need to rough up the centre so the labels don't stick to the plates, the outside is also roughed up so the nickel hangs on to them
Rinse with filtered water plenty of it, Final rinse D water .5 to 1 Litre
Ready to go:
1.Spray with Tin 2.5 to 3 passes You will see them going dull
2.Rinse with filtered water than with d water .5 to 1 L you should see an even film of water hanging on for a while and than dissapear
3.Spray with silver solution and reducer at the same time. 2.5 to 3 passes or until it just starts to turn silver Weather and temperature dependant, some times they need less other times an extra half to one full pass If they don't turn silver at four passes you have screwed up somewhere along the line
4.Switch off or stop spraying at the point they start to turn silver Immediatelly turn on the DWATER for at least 3 passes They should be a mirror like finish no blemishes no spots perfect even shine
No filtered water is to be used at this final stage
Done! straight into the bath, before they get dry If they do get dry you will get blotches on them They will come out on the electroform be visible on the records not nice
Ok what to look for:
If the coating has gone goldy yellow there is to much silver, result noisy crackly record. Strip and start again If it looks like a silvery lead colour the tin has not done it's trick Strip and start again
If you have uneven coating or you can see different coloured patches on them you have not wash them well Fingermarks are the worse to get rid off Strip and start again
Note:
Allways Do a test first prior to doing a real one so as to make sure all your tubes are feeding the liquids down to the spray gun(s)
Than you know you are OK to go for the real thing
Note:
Tin and Hydroxide keep well in a refrigerator they should have an infinite life time however fresh chemicals are allways better so mix as much as you are going to use say for a few weeks
DGlucose about a week
Silver should be mixed for the day It is expensive so don't take risks
Word of warning: If you cut down the mix of the stock solutions make sure you are 100% accurate as you do not have much of a leeway once they are dilluted They need to be precise
Also since all the quantities for the WORKING solutions are exactly the same make sure you keep them that way
This qty is for 6 x 14" lacquers including at least two test acetates 8 all together
These stock solutions are for commercial requirements However the silver is allways mixed for the needs of the day
You can scale them down to your qty requirements but take note of the need for accuracy
It is easy enough to buy a very accurate set of digital scales for a few dollars (from the local purveyor of dope? pot? smokers requisites)
Will post stripping solution recipe as well as more tips some other time I am done for now
Cheers
Missed this post of yours so here you are
Stock Solutions
1.Silver Nitrate: 200 Grams Made up to 1 Litre with De ionized or distilled water
2.Sodium Hydroxide: 160 Grams made up to 1 litre De Ionized or distilled water
3.Reducer: DGlucose 1 KG + 500 mill of Formaldehyde made up to 4 Litres De Ionized or distilled water
4.Tin Chloride or Stannous 1000 Grams made up to 1 Litre with Concentrated Hydrochloric Acid
Working solutions
1.Wash as previous post
2.Stannous: 13 Mill of stock solution made up to 2 litres of d water
3.Reducer: 150 mill stock to 2 litres of d water
4. Silver: You need a few steps for this so here it is in order
1.add 100 mill of stock to about 800 mill of d water It may or may not go cloudy Next step if it goes cloudy if it stays clear go to step 3
2.While stirring add (30% concentration) ammonia until it is crystal clear.
Note: weaker ammonia also works you just need more of it
3: Add 25 mill of Sodium hydroxide stock do this while stirring. Note: It will go a dark colour
4. Add ammonia a few drops at a time initially than a drop at a time do this while stirring until it becomes crystal clear
5. Make it up to two litres with d water
Equipment:
Filtered water from the tap
D water in a twenty litre carboy with a tap on the bottom
You need 3 Glass or plastic containers to hold about 3 litres with some plastic tubing out of them at the bottom of course with little stop cocks attached so as to place your chemicals in Sit them Up high so gravity works Need to do it in a little booth with air suction ventilated to the outside
You can make up a manifold to bring all your tubes into it This can be made up with some 12 V garden sprinkler solenoids on a piece of thick pvc tubing.
You would need:
One solenoid each line in, 1 for filtered water, 1 for Dwater, 1 for tin, and two of them activated at the same time, 1 for Reducer and 1 for Silver
A main switch as well as one SPST switch for each solenoid as well as a DPST for the silver and reducer solenoids They can be mounted on a face plate with the manifold mounted behind it You can than turn them on and off easily or the manifold can be placed in a plastic box with a clear cover the switches can be mounted on the cover (Netafim solenoids work well about $10 each)
These are the inputs, along the length of the tube the outlet of the manifold at the end should go straight into the spray gun
Hook it to a spray gun with two liquid lines in Use a a glued plug with a 1/4 tail screwed in it at one and of the tube the outlet. Block the other end, or best to use another plug with a 1/4 tailpiece on it so as to feed your filtered water there if you want You can than flash the manifold clean with filtered water when you finish the job
1"or 25 mm OD heavy wall PVC tubing will do it, about 400 mm or 2 feet long Thick enough so you can drill and tap it for the solenoids Low voltage is the way to go as it does get wet there so you don't want high voltages around
Alternative for the low cost? or the non mechanical or electronics man:
You will need 4 spray guns with stainless steel tips on them (Cheap Chinese ones will do) Don't use the alluminium pots they come with they will ruin your chemicals in the process of ruining themselves Remove them and use your lines from your containers straight into the bit of pipe that hangs down
You need to have two of them ganged up so as to spray reducer and silver at the same time by placing them next to each other in some suitable way
This ganged pair needs to be triggered at the same time so as to have the same amount of silver and reducer coming out of them
These two chemicals should get mixed together at the face of the lacquer
The spray distance is also critical so 14"-15" is about right from spray gun to Lacquers, air pressure and liquid flow dependant
However if you adjust the spray pattern correctly for say a 10" to 14" square surface area 14"-15" distance is about right
Procedure and Definitions
D water=distilled or de ionized water
Pass = center to out and back to centre
Steps:
Wash your lacquers (previous post)
Place lacquer in spinning jig
You can rough up the centre as well as the edges of the lacquers with a Scotch pad right there as it spins on the jig
You can than spray wash the fines so as not to get them in the grooves they are dificult to get rid off
You need to rough up the centre so the labels don't stick to the plates, the outside is also roughed up so the nickel hangs on to them
Rinse with filtered water plenty of it, Final rinse D water .5 to 1 Litre
Ready to go:
1.Spray with Tin 2.5 to 3 passes You will see them going dull
2.Rinse with filtered water than with d water .5 to 1 L you should see an even film of water hanging on for a while and than dissapear
3.Spray with silver solution and reducer at the same time. 2.5 to 3 passes or until it just starts to turn silver Weather and temperature dependant, some times they need less other times an extra half to one full pass If they don't turn silver at four passes you have screwed up somewhere along the line
4.Switch off or stop spraying at the point they start to turn silver Immediatelly turn on the DWATER for at least 3 passes They should be a mirror like finish no blemishes no spots perfect even shine
No filtered water is to be used at this final stage
Done! straight into the bath, before they get dry If they do get dry you will get blotches on them They will come out on the electroform be visible on the records not nice
Ok what to look for:
If the coating has gone goldy yellow there is to much silver, result noisy crackly record. Strip and start again If it looks like a silvery lead colour the tin has not done it's trick Strip and start again
If you have uneven coating or you can see different coloured patches on them you have not wash them well Fingermarks are the worse to get rid off Strip and start again
Note:
Allways Do a test first prior to doing a real one so as to make sure all your tubes are feeding the liquids down to the spray gun(s)
Than you know you are OK to go for the real thing
Note:
Tin and Hydroxide keep well in a refrigerator they should have an infinite life time however fresh chemicals are allways better so mix as much as you are going to use say for a few weeks
DGlucose about a week
Silver should be mixed for the day It is expensive so don't take risks
Word of warning: If you cut down the mix of the stock solutions make sure you are 100% accurate as you do not have much of a leeway once they are dilluted They need to be precise
Also since all the quantities for the WORKING solutions are exactly the same make sure you keep them that way
This qty is for 6 x 14" lacquers including at least two test acetates 8 all together
These stock solutions are for commercial requirements However the silver is allways mixed for the needs of the day
You can scale them down to your qty requirements but take note of the need for accuracy
It is easy enough to buy a very accurate set of digital scales for a few dollars (from the local purveyor of dope? pot? smokers requisites)
Will post stripping solution recipe as well as more tips some other time I am done for now
Cheers
If i have any questions ask youMaster Lacquers, Formulae etc
Hey Marcos
Let me know if you need some photos or design of tanks Will post them up for you PM me for specific questions if you have any
Can do English, Italian, Greek, but not Spanish
I also see you have adopted my greeting (cheers) Well done
Cheers
Let me know if you need some photos or design of tanks Will post them up for you PM me for specific questions if you have any
Can do English, Italian, Greek, but not Spanish
I also see you have adopted my greeting (cheers) Well done
Cheers
real stuff 
MARCOS
Someone I know is trying again the quite old Philips patent with electrically heated moulds and water cooling
They did work well avoiding the steam supply issue but the did not last long so it was scraped put on the back burner
Of course this was the dyas when they needed 100 K copies out of a title not like today where the demand is a lot lower
Also they would be fine for short runs etc
So I will keep you and any one else in the loop on this as it would make for home/small scale pressing quite feasable
He has gone a fair way with it trials are due soon all very encouraging
Cheers
They did work well avoiding the steam supply issue but the did not last long so it was scraped put on the back burner
Of course this was the dyas when they needed 100 K copies out of a title not like today where the demand is a lot lower
Also they would be fine for short runs etc
So I will keep you and any one else in the loop on this as it would make for home/small scale pressing quite feasable
He has gone a fair way with it trials are due soon all very encouraging
Cheers
Chris
Re: Electroforming of Record Matrix
Hello MossBoss.
I am Gege - an amateur, interested in electroplating.
I was delighted to read your post about silvering - whatever questions I had, I found the answer for most of them.
Just let me know, please, if the following is correct:
Best regards,
Gege
I am Gege - an amateur, interested in electroplating.
I was delighted to read your post about silvering - whatever questions I had, I found the answer for most of them.
Just let me know, please, if the following is correct:
I mean, the SnCl2 is really 1000 gr/L, it is not a mistake, right? This makes 100% stock solution and 0.65% working solution. The other two recipes I have are for 0.21% and 0.8% final concentration, so your stock solution of 1000 gr/L seems to be fine, but need to verify it.mossboss wrote: 4.Tin Chloride or Stannous 1000 Grams made up to 1 Liter with Concentrated Hydrochloric Acid
Best regards,
Gege