Hi!
I've got a Scully LS-76 Lathe with a Westrex 3DII cutter head. So far I have been using the Advanced ball on the Westrex 3DII, but I want to change the system to having the cutter head floating.
Any suggestion how to go about this??
Floating cutter head?
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A spring configuation with adjustment so you can counter the weight of the cutterhead and mounting.
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hmmmm.
think twice about changing that system.
westrex and advanced ball and scully turntable. the turntable is not as flat and precise as a neumann so the advance ball can correct that.
it makes totally sense.
better change the advance ball from time to time. and adjust well.
if you change for a balance type suspension, i guess you have to start modify way more.
also the whole depht adjustment is tricky with a westrex and coil.
the very obvious (but worst solution) is the neumann suspension mounted on a scully. (and evene worse adding a neumann platter to a scully) so then better go directly for a neumann.
think twice about changing that system.
westrex and advanced ball and scully turntable. the turntable is not as flat and precise as a neumann so the advance ball can correct that.
it makes totally sense.
better change the advance ball from time to time. and adjust well.
if you change for a balance type suspension, i guess you have to start modify way more.
also the whole depht adjustment is tricky with a westrex and coil.
the very obvious (but worst solution) is the neumann suspension mounted on a scully. (and evene worse adding a neumann platter to a scully) so then better go directly for a neumann.
Interesting. And, very good to know. Thanks Flo.flozki wrote:hmmmm.
think twice about changing that system.
westrex and advanced ball and scully turntable. the turntable is not as flat and precise as a neumann so the advance ball can correct that.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
Thank you for replying!
This Scully LS-76 used to have the Westrex 3DII cutterhead floating before I bought it. It was originally KC & the sunshine band who had it and later on Charley Hertzburg, who told me he cut both Bon Jovi's and Gloria Estefan, Sizzla etc. etc records on it. All this with the system floating. I have been looking at these records under the microscope and they look good to me....
Not my kind of music, but these records had big commercially success so it can't be all that bad??
The thing is that I only got the "floating" card for the variable depth system and this does not correspond with the Advanced ball set up. And the cutterhead suspension have already been modified to have the Westrex 3DII head floating.
Does anybody have a "Advanced Ball" card for Variable depth to the Scully LS-76 for sale?
Someone gave me this tip:
"Assuming that the platter is level on the bearing, the normal issue with the lacquers is that they are uneven, and the idea is that the cutterhead suspension, if the head is floating and not using the advance ball, should be tuned for a resonance (between the spring and the mass) just below 20Hz but well above the frequency of 33 rpm (just above 1/2 Hz) because the suspension is supposed to allow the head to follow the surface of the lacquer."
So I guess I should try out some different springs, since the original one have been stretched a little bit out of it's shape ?
When it comes to the turntable, I have been using a very expensive precision tool to measure the wow and it's WAY inside the specifications all over the platter.
This Scully LS-76 used to have the Westrex 3DII cutterhead floating before I bought it. It was originally KC & the sunshine band who had it and later on Charley Hertzburg, who told me he cut both Bon Jovi's and Gloria Estefan, Sizzla etc. etc records on it. All this with the system floating. I have been looking at these records under the microscope and they look good to me....
Not my kind of music, but these records had big commercially success so it can't be all that bad??
The thing is that I only got the "floating" card for the variable depth system and this does not correspond with the Advanced ball set up. And the cutterhead suspension have already been modified to have the Westrex 3DII head floating.
Does anybody have a "Advanced Ball" card for Variable depth to the Scully LS-76 for sale?
Someone gave me this tip:
"Assuming that the platter is level on the bearing, the normal issue with the lacquers is that they are uneven, and the idea is that the cutterhead suspension, if the head is floating and not using the advance ball, should be tuned for a resonance (between the spring and the mass) just below 20Hz but well above the frequency of 33 rpm (just above 1/2 Hz) because the suspension is supposed to allow the head to follow the surface of the lacquer."
So I guess I should try out some different springs, since the original one have been stretched a little bit out of it's shape ?
When it comes to the turntable, I have been using a very expensive precision tool to measure the wow and it's WAY inside the specifications all over the platter.
can you send me some pictures of your cards and where it is located?
or do you have the schematics for it? think i can rebuild it.
i can check on my LS76. but i guess i have only the floating one because it was used with ortofon head.
my ls76 is in a box since years. so no experience with that. could be that the suspension is a little bit better than on the regular scully. i dont think so.
or do you have the schematics for it? think i can rebuild it.
i can check on my LS76. but i guess i have only the floating one because it was used with ortofon head.
my ls76 is in a box since years. so no experience with that. could be that the suspension is a little bit better than on the regular scully. i dont think so.
I'm using a Westrex 3DIIa head on my Scully (model number unknown, S/N 423); it uses an advance ball. For a short test I attempted to run the head without the advance ball assembly attached, but found the cutting depth was uneven, so after getting the replacement advance ball (from Apollo) I've stuck with it.
I didn't quite understand your goal; why would you want to run without an advance ball?
I didn't quite understand your goal; why would you want to run without an advance ball?
Why floating?
I'm not very clever explaining in English, but I try to give it a go:
There are three reasons why I want to have it floating (if I manage).
The first and main reason is that I would like to be able to use the variable depth computer that is in the Scully LS-76. On this lathe there are two possible set ups, one for floating cutterheads and one for advanced ball cutterheads and these two different way of doing it takes two different cards in the Scullys computer. I only have the card for floating cutterhead since this lathe have only been used with the Westrex 3DII floating earlier. But, unfortunately something happened during shipping, so I haven't succeeded setting it up correctly since I got this lathe. The cutting depth is uneven here too.
Second reason is that advanced ball tend to leave scruff marks on the lacquer (in the manual it says that the Westrex 3DII cutterhead should rest on the lacquer with 2 oz (56.69grams) when using the advanced ball assembly) . Especially if you have some wide lateral amplitudes in the signal (heavy bass), and 2 mill groove, its sometimes hard to get the ball marks to hide in the groove, because the advanced ball is in one place all the time, while the stylus is "dancing" from side to side (and up and down) . And I got complains from the pressing plant for this issue. (Maybe a replacement advance ball is the solution for that? Like audadvnc suggests.)
The third reason is that you don't have to deal with adjusting the advanced ball at all when its floating. Witch makes things easier all together, I suppose.
But floating a Westrex 3DII is tricky because this cutterhead is quite massive and heavy compared to Naumann, Ortofon, Vinylium etc
Does anybody know how much lift it takes (preferably in grams) before a Naumann or Ortofon or Vinylium cutterhead leaves the surface of a lacquer (what weight it rests on the lacquer with)?
There are three reasons why I want to have it floating (if I manage).
The first and main reason is that I would like to be able to use the variable depth computer that is in the Scully LS-76. On this lathe there are two possible set ups, one for floating cutterheads and one for advanced ball cutterheads and these two different way of doing it takes two different cards in the Scullys computer. I only have the card for floating cutterhead since this lathe have only been used with the Westrex 3DII floating earlier. But, unfortunately something happened during shipping, so I haven't succeeded setting it up correctly since I got this lathe. The cutting depth is uneven here too.
Second reason is that advanced ball tend to leave scruff marks on the lacquer (in the manual it says that the Westrex 3DII cutterhead should rest on the lacquer with 2 oz (56.69grams) when using the advanced ball assembly) . Especially if you have some wide lateral amplitudes in the signal (heavy bass), and 2 mill groove, its sometimes hard to get the ball marks to hide in the groove, because the advanced ball is in one place all the time, while the stylus is "dancing" from side to side (and up and down) . And I got complains from the pressing plant for this issue. (Maybe a replacement advance ball is the solution for that? Like audadvnc suggests.)
The third reason is that you don't have to deal with adjusting the advanced ball at all when its floating. Witch makes things easier all together, I suppose.
But floating a Westrex 3DII is tricky because this cutterhead is quite massive and heavy compared to Naumann, Ortofon, Vinylium etc
Does anybody know how much lift it takes (preferably in grams) before a Naumann or Ortofon or Vinylium cutterhead leaves the surface of a lacquer (what weight it rests on the lacquer with)?
Re: Why floating?
My (brand new) advance ball leaves scuff marks when it's dirty with lacquer tailings, but doesn't scuff when it's clean. My 3DIIa manual says head weight should be 50 - 75 grams; I've been running it on the heavy end but think I could back it off a bit and not have so bad scuff marks.THD wrote: Second reason is that advanced ball tend to leave scruff marks on the lacquer (in the manual it says that the Westrex 3DII cutterhead should rest on the lacquer with 2 oz (56.69grams) when using the advanced ball assembly) .
Since my lathe dates from about 1940, I don't know anything about variable groove depth, other than more modern decks can do it.
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leo gonzalez
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:37 pm
Re: Why floating?
From my expirience:THD wrote:I'm not very clever explaining in English, but I try to give it a go:
Second reason is that advanced ball tend to leave scruff marks on the lacquer (in the manual it says that the Westrex 3DII cutterhead should rest on the lacquer with 2 oz (56.69grams) when using the advanced ball assembly) . Especially if you have some wide lateral amplitudes in the signal (heavy bass), and 2 mill groove, its sometimes hard to get the ball marks to hide in the groove, because the advanced ball is in one place all the time, while the stylus is "dancing" from side to side (and up and down) . And I got complains from the pressing plant for this issue. (Maybe a replacement advance ball is the solution for that? Like audadvnc suggests.)
If you have the stock westrex/scully cutterhead head mount, try johnson's baby oil. If you have a medium to high gauge oil thickness then it will give scuffs. Basically becacuse if there's a high point on the lacquer then the head would tend to push down. you want the head to ride through those imperfections.
If you lower the oil gauge on the dash pot then tight the upper spring to the max and slowly bring it down when you start a test cut and set the advance ball so it barely touches the lacquer. Let the spring catch the head just before it touches the lacquer and then slowly touch the lacquer. that will give you a fixed height setting. After that you should be able to have more up and down play on the advance screw. that should help with the scuffs.
After this you need to watch out groove depth variations. Try to compensate with more weight on the head. put a penny or two on the magnets, haha!
Not cutting much with my scully now but i do remember that i was qetting more scuffs on master lacquers than on dubplates.
Hope this helps.
Leandro.
Re:
Sounds like your Scully's model number is 501.audadvnc wrote:I'm using a Westrex 3DIIa head on my Scully (model number unknown, S/N 423); it uses an advance ball. For a short test I attempted to run the head without the advance ball assembly attached, but found the cutting depth was uneven, so after getting the replacement advance ball (from Apollo) I've stuck with it.
I didn't quite understand your goal; why would you want to run without an advance ball?