Lazarus Lathe Project

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Soulbear
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44642Unread post Soulbear
Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:55 pm

Hi There,
SueDenim wrote:Nice one!
Thanks SB :mrgreen:
You're most welcome SueDenim.
jesusfwrl wrote:It is not the type of blank you will be cutting that defines your suction needs. It is mostly a question of whether you will be using a heated stylus or not.
Hi Jesus, and thank you for your most insightful comments surrounding the whole issue of Vacuum/Suction, and the Upsides/Downsides of Stylus Heating etc, it is greatly appreciated by this Troll. As the the Day rapidly approaches when I will be attempting to make my first recordings, I must admit that this very topic has been forefront in my mind. The 3mm O.D. Vacuum Pipe was chosen primarily, out of the simple neccessity to keep things compact for Routing Purposes. It may be the case that once I purchase and fit one of The Shank's Styli, I could find that I may be able to up the diameter a little. It is difficult to see from this Photograph but the Vacuum Pipe is actually flattened to an Oval on the Bend closest to the Stylus :-
BSR DR33C Restoration-74.jpg
I had thought to use, and so purchased this small combination AS20W Air Brush Compressor/Vacuum Pump Unit to use on Vacuum duties :-
Vacuum Pump.jpg
The beauty is that it it quite quiet and is Oil Free, which is most useful as it suits my current accomodation/housing situation. I used the Flow Rate/ Velocity Calculator from this site here:- http://www.1728.org/flowrate.htm Taking the lower Flow Rate of the AS20W as 20L/Min this Calculator gives me a Velocity of 348.11Feet/Sec through a 2mm I.D. Pipe, which I'm hoping, if I only get a 1/4 of this performance, should be enough to pick up the swarf whilst I'm cutting. I am not looking to produce recordings on a Commercial Basis for Mastering, and as such I will not be Cutting Lacquers, only Polycarbonate Discs. Of course I will be trying to get the best Noise Free cuts I can acheive, so I will be aiming to use Stylus Heating. The idea is to gain as much experience as I can, Cutting in Mono, before attempting to Graduate up to Stereo with my MSS/Technics SP10/Caruso Set-Up. Now getting a Vacuum Pipe Under Caruso 128 will most definitely be more of a challenge! It's almost 2 years since I embarked on this Cutting Journey, and after over 50 years of Procrastination. I can now at last see the Finishing Line, so thanks again for the pointers Jesus.
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear
P.S. Jesus, I agonised over making a bid on your latest acquisition when it was offered for sale some months back (I Downloaded all the Ebay Photo's of it Te He). I even sought some advice/user tips, from mischmerz, as I know she has experience using the R.O.K. I think it's found the perfect new home to bring it back to its former glory.
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jesusfwrl
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44654Unread post jesusfwrl
Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:29 am

One important thing I forgot to mention:
Do not attempt to use a hot stylus on your first test cuts!
There will be quite a bit of adjusting on those first cuts, such as depth of cut, alignment with centre line, stylus rake angle, and checking for consistent groove width across the blank surface. This will already be enough to keep you busy without having to worry about suction and heating.

Also, plastic blanks will most likely require some form of damping on the suspension to avoid vertical oscillations. The first time you put the needle down on the blank you will most likely find that terrible things will happen, like the needle jumping up and down on the record surface, cutting to shallow, cutting too deep, or not even touching the record surface!
These will only take a few minutes to solve, but you certainly don't want to be using heating during this time. In fact, you probably don't want to be using an expensive diamond stylus either!

When I do the first tests on any lathe which has just been set up new, I use a simple steel stylus which is pretty cheap and doesn't break if something weird happens. I also always start with silent grooves. As soon as I get good consistent silent grooves at the desired depth, I add sound. First low level, and slowly increase to see what happens. Keep a test record or commercially pressed record at hand for level comparison. When all this works well, with the chip balling up at the centre spindle, this is when I add suction. Still without heating!
When the suction is reliable without heating, I move on to the expensive diamond stylus, start a cut without heat and slowly increase the heat. 0.3A is normally enough for a new stylus. You need to be alert if you notice that the chip is not being picked up and sticks on the stylus instead, you should immediately turn off the heating and lift the head. Clean up the mess, increase suction or bring suction pipe closer to stylus and try again.

I do this on silent grooves to not have to worry about drive current to the head and so on. The heating is really the final detail to deal with, and the suction is fine tuned to the behaviour of the chip with the heated stylus. As you increase the heating current, the chip will become progressively stickier. It will take a fair bit of cutting as the stylus starts getting less sharp and the heating reaches or exceeds 0.5A to really know how reliable your suction system is.

Also remember to keep the line from the suction tube to the chip char as short as possible. From the chip jar to the pump it can be long. I also use a small filter right before the pump to protect the pump. Nothing normally goes past the chip jar, but on one occasion I did find a small ball of chip in this filter!

My vacuum pump is probably a bit exaggerated but it is rated at 283L/min, or 10cfm. It is a rotary vein pump which is too oily to keep inside a living area, so it lives in a dedicated shed, with an oil separator that I made to reduce the oiliness. It is not very loud, but I wouldn't really recommend it as a good solution due to the oiliness. It totally sucks though! Empirically, instead of just looking at pump ratings, airflow or velocity, I just fit a vacuum gauge before the chip jar. With a 3mm ID chip suction tube, you should really be getting -0.4bar or higher vacuum on the gauge for polycarbonate and PVC. Lower than that its usually not very reliable. The reading will of course be different with a different pipe ID at the end of the system. If you block the entrance, the reading would rapidly increase, which is when you know that your chip tube has chip stuck in it!

Image

Here is an example of a vacuum gauge that we are planning on using for a vacuum system we are building at the moment. The glycerine is not necessary, you can just use a dry one.

PS: The RekoKut was on ebay? I'm not a big fan of ebay, so I didn't even notice. Was it by itself or along with other stuff? Do you still have the ebay link by any chance? I have been trying to track it's history, so I am trying to find out who it's previous owners were. I do this with all my vintage gear, they have plenty of stories to tell. Thanks for your kind words.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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Soulbear
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44655Unread post Soulbear
Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:41 am

Hi Jesus,
Thank you for the further guidance on this subject. I don't mind admiting that I found some of the results of my research, shall we say a little perplexing. Some of the advice was contradictory to say the least!! I've found your counselling to be both enlightening and straight-forward. I don't know if I can, but I'll attempt to copy and paste your directions into a Word File and possibly Print it out, to have it by my side to Refer to, as I take my initial steps. Much of what you suggest is Common-Sense, but other Pointers I'd not thought about, and could therefore, end up having saved me some considerable expenditure, so thanks again.

Yup, I'm pretty sure that the R.O.K was for sale back in Mid-March and if memory serves me well, it was located in France. The Ebay Photographs of the Listing (which I downloaded in March) are contained within this PDF :-
RekOkut Photo's1.pdf
I don't know if you can Zoom-In into the Photo's within the PDF, to check the serial Number, and confirm it is the same as your R.O.K? If not, I've separately included the following image which presumably you can Zoom into :-
ReKoKut Lathe2.JPG
My own Zooming-In Endeavours, make this serial number to be 7 - 2083. as I said I think it was located in France with a reserve of €1200, and considering its overall condition, I thought that at that price, it represented great value.
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear
Edit :- The Copy and Paste into a Word File worked a Treat Te He!
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jesusfwrl
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44657Unread post jesusfwrl
Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:43 pm

Soulbear, I am glad that you found my comments helpful.
The RekoKut is indeed the same machine!
Good lathe spotting!
I only bought it in October, but it did come from France, so it was probably the same owner back then. I can't believe it didn't sell on ebay! I guess, I was pretty lucky with this one. It is statistically proven that no one can only have bad luck...I guess one could say I've had my fair share of both good and bad luck as far as disk cutting goes, considering my threads on this forum.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44668Unread post grooveguy
Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:46 pm

Absolutely stunning work, Soulbear! Keep us posted.

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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44680Unread post Soulbear
Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:45 pm

Hi There,
jesusfwrl wrote:Soulbear, I am glad that you found my comments helpful.
The RekoKut is indeed the same machine!
Yes really helpful, I do find them most useful Jesus thanks, and yes, I had a sneaking suspicion that your R.O.K. was one and the same machine which I was sorely tempted to buy back in March. Cosmetically it looked to be the nicest machine of this vintage that I'd thus far encountered. The seller described the accompanying Amplifier on the listing, as being a "Solid State" device, which to me denoted Transistors rather than Valves. I suspect he didn't have thorough knowledge of what he was selling in truth.
grooveguy wrote:Absolutely stunning work, Soulbear! Keep us posted.
Hi grooveguy, it's most kind of you to say so, thanks for the encouragement, it's appreciated.
Well Trolls,
“The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.” - Robert Burns - To a Mouse, or in Non-Dialect English "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry"
And so it is with this Lazarus Lathe Project. I had initially hoped to compensate for my "Lack Of" BSR Laydown Cutterhead and use my "Ugly Duckling" Cutterhead on this Renovation/Modification, a few reasons were manifest, as in :-
1) It was the correct "Vintage"
2) Aesthetically it "Looked O.K."
3) I'd already Purchased It!
4) I have a fondness for Ugly Duckling, a "Soft Spot" if you will, as it was my first Record Cutting-Related Purchase!!

However, try as I may Trolls, I could not use both "Ugly Duckling" and Stylus Heating. For the Life of Me, there was simply no way I could find to fit "Stylus Heater" terminals onto the DR33C's Cutterhead Carriage with this Cutterhead In-Situ. Additionally the mounting Bolts to attach "Ugly Duckling" to the Carriage Frame are located in a Sub-Optimum Position (For this Lathe's Cutterhead Carriage) at the back of the Cutterhead, restricting full adjustment of the Carriage Frame Propper. I could have attempted a "Work Around" and indeed I've had a few goes at it, before deciding that the results would have looked like a "Bodge Job" and that I'm afraid Trolls, will just not suffice, such "Work Around" attempts have now been abandoned.
Now some little time ago I had a discussion with Trolls Member Recordboy, about his recently acquired Cutterhead and couldn't help but notice some striking similarities in its construction, when compared to Ugly Duckling, both the Iron Yoke and Armature Knife Edge Bearings look to have been supplied by the same Manufacturer, see if you agree :-
Webster Cutterhead5.jpg
Ugly Duckling2.JPG
Well Trolls, Recordboy told me that he believed his own Cutterhead to be a "Webster" which in all probability, would make Ugly Duckling a Webster Cutterhead too. Now here's the thing, in place of Ugly Duckling I've used another Cutterhead which I also know to be, most definitely, a Webster, and which by pure coincidence, the only reference to this Webster Cutterhead that I've ever been able to find, is in a copy of Bob Morrison's terrific book which was sold to me by grooveguy!!
Webster Cutterhead1.JPG
Webster Cutterhead.JPG
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear
Continued.............
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44681Unread post grooveguy
Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:51 pm

Hey, Soulbear,

If that isn't a Webster head, whoever made it sure used the Webster as a model. The magnet structure of the Ugly Duckling looks more modern than Webster's horseshoe. The Webster head was standard issue on the Radiotone lathe, and probably the best thing about it.
Snap1.jpg
That lathe included lots of stamped sheet metal; the one I had briefly, back in the 1970s, had runout in every part that rotated. But the Webster head was actually pretty good, so I would not be surprised if you get some quite decent results with it.

I would not give up on heating the stylus. With my old Presto 1D head, I always used 'short shank' styli because they took the top-end response from -2dB at 10k to -2dB at 12k. Nit-picking, I know, but the long-shank styli do bend. Because the bottom of the head was so close to the disc, I brought the heater wires straight out the front. There was a small strip of circuit board material (green epoxy/glass) spaced away from, and fastened to, the head cover with a couple of tiny screws; the knurled stylus-clamping screw came through it. Two small flat-head screws extended through just the strip with two nuts, each, on the front. The nichrome wire was clamped between the nuts and was easy to affix, remove, etc. Here's a crude sketch:
Snap2.jpg
It worked well with suction from behind.

-Jim
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Soulbear
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44683Unread post Soulbear
Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:06 pm

Hi grooveguy,
Thanks for the insights on the Webster/Radiotone Set-Up, in particular the Long Shank Vs Short Shank Cutting Performance Dynamics. And you may have also inadvertently supplied me with an answer to this conundrum. I've been searching for information regarding the origins of this Overhead which I Toyed with the Idea of Purchasing :-
Universal Overhead2.jpg
Looking at the design of the one on that Lathe Photograph you've just posted, I think it's pretty well "Nailed On" that it comes from one of the Radiotone Recorders family, don't you??
And now on to my latest Task, as I endeavour to resurrect this DR33C, namely, replace "Ugly Duckling" and fit some Heater Terminals. I'd only really thought of Stylus Heating as a "Nice to Have" However, the more closely I looked into this issue, the more I became convinced (Especially in light of the additional input from Jesus) of its vital importance, and that Stylus Heating is an Imperative. Having spent the "Thick End" of 2 Days making and re-making brackets out of 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/8" Aluminium Angle, with which to attach the Cutterhead to the Carriage, I gave up on this size Angle. If the results of my efforts fitted OK in one position, they ended up being unsuitable from another perspective, or with little to no Room/Clearance for the Threaded Fasteners. Today I went and purchased some 15mm x15mm Angle of a Lighter Gauge, and luckily got everything to Fit together nicely. I may yet change the Terminal Mounting Plate to an Aluminium Strip which I'm annoyed with myself for not buying whilst Buying the 15mm x 15mm Angle today :twisted: HUMPH!!
BSR DR33C Restoration-77.jpg
BSR DR33C Restoration-78.jpg
BSR DR33C Restoration-79.jpg
As can be seen here, I chose Spring-Loaded Terminals which are often used on Loudspeaker Cabinets. They are a Little on the "Chunky" side, and so you need Muscles in your Spit or Digits that can Squeeze like a "Mole Wrench" to use them, but Ive not thus far, had any Luck trying to locate any Smaller Spring-Loaded Terminals. Any Tips, Hints, Suggestions, or Recommendations from other Trolls, as to where I might obtain some Smaller Terminals would be gratefully received.
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear
Continued.............
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44686Unread post grooveguy
Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:01 pm

Soulbear,

It would seem that you have the matter under control. I agree that the spring terminals you used are a bit 'fat' for the job, and you may find that the internal spring is too strong and may break your heater wire. Here's what I'm currently using on my Fairchild head:
Head Suction Detail.jpg
Do please note that the nichrome wire wound around the sapphire has reasonably short 'tails' going to those tiny spring-loaded terminals. These tails get considerably hotter than the wire around the sapphire, as the sapphire 'sinks' the heat away.
CU F'child head & hot stylus.jpg
This is a good reason to keep the tails as short as possible, as all they do is glow red and lose temper, becoming somewhat fragile after hours of cutting. I have never had a heater wire burn out or break, but generally replace it when removing the stylus for cleaning or inspection. Maybe once every couple of months when the lathe is busy.

The little clips in my photo are something I ran across first in 1958 or so. They were called "diode clips" at the time, testament, I suppose, to the fragility of semiconductor devices of the day. It's 's been nearly 60 years since I bought those, although I remember the day clearly. They were not a big mover at the parts store, and I had to paw through the shelves myself to find them. They were manufactured by Cambion Corp. and, believe it or not, still are! Here's what I found easily on the Web:
Snap3.jpg
The current product is quite similar to mine, although the hex base in my photo doesn't really show in the Cambion drawing. Anyhow, for your convenience, the UK branch of the firm came up first!

-Jim
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44689Unread post Soulbear
Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:43 pm

Hi grooveguy,
Perfect!! Those Terminals look to be Just the Job. The luckiest thing is the Small Town where that Business is located, is a place I visit often. It's in one of the most beautiful areas of the U.K. It's one of our National Parks (The Very First One) called the "Peak District" and is only an 1/2 Hours or so Drive from my home. However at this time of year, I'll probably get some sent via the Postal Service. My car had a Blanket of Snow on it this morning and it's not even winter yet!!If we get an inch of Snow here, they'll probably have a foot of snow where the Terrain is Elevated Up in the Peaks Te He! Thanks for the Part Numbers too, I ofter find negotiating my way around Websites akin to Wading through Treacle, so it's great that I've avoided that inconvenience too, I'll call them tommorrow. Thanks Again :wink: :P :D Soulbear

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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44693Unread post jesusfwrl
Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:55 am

Castleton...?!?!
I thought I knew every inch of it!

I lived in Sheffield for a few years, close to a decade actually. I used to teach at the University of Sheffield and I would often drive out to the Peak District in the weekends. That was when I still used to have weekends!
I also briefly lived near Grindleford.

I thought I knew most of the Peak District quite well, but I had never seen or even imagined I could possible find an electronics shop there. It was always a trip to the lovely Mr. Bardwell in Sheffield for me. Castleton is a pretty tiny village, and I used to walk all around it. It is a very beautiful place indeed! The Peak District was my favourite place in the UK as well.

I have been searching quite a long time for such clips, grooveguy. Many thanks for the tip! I ended up making things like that from scratch because I couldn't find any.

What kind of stylus are you using?
I have never had glowing filaments! They don't even get too hot on the Transco ruby and the Myshank diamond styli. If lacquer chip would end up touching the glowing filaments, things would probably get exciting! I remember reading somewhere that filaments getting hot all along their length was common back in the day, but modern nichrome wire is meant to be silver plated so that only the actual coil gets hot. What current setting are you using?

For PVC and polycarbonate especially, stylus heat is quite important, both for lower noise and for the life span of the diamond.

Soulbear, what is preventing you from attaching a bracket holding the heater wire terminals on the head cover itself? It looks like there might be enough space for that even on the Ugly Duckling. In the past I have used a piece of terminal strip for this purpose, on which I soldered small pieces of copper brake line, threaded the inside and used screws to attach the heater wires. The diode terminals could probably fit directly through the hole of the terminal strip, leaving you with two solder lugs for the wiring. This is how I did it on the RCA head:

Image

As for the RekOKut, the R8B amplifier is a hybrid, featuring a solid state pre-amp based on the RCA 2N406 germanium transistors, with a vacuum tube driver and power amp stage.

I don't know when these tranistors hit the market, but this must have been one of their first implementations. I shall do some research on this as I got curious now.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44694Unread post Soulbear
Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:19 am

Hi There,
jesusfwrl wrote:I have been searching quite a long time for such clips, grooveguy. Many thanks for the tip!

You and me both Jesus, and the great news is that they only cost around £1 each. A small Fly in the Ointment however, is that there's a Minimum Order Quantity of Ahem, 500 Pieces!!
I contacted the Company by telephone this A.M. The Lady in Sales was really helpful and after checking that there wasn't any Non-Disclosure Clauses with the different companies to whom they Sell, she was happy to give me some of her Customer's Details, for me make Contact, and to see if they had any surplus stock. All to no avail sadly, as these Customer's in turn, predominantly ended up being Re-Sellers, with no stock of their own!!
jesusfwrl wrote: Soulbear, what is preventing you from attaching a bracket holding the heater wire terminals on the head cover itself?

Well Jesus, call me Idiosyncratic if you will, but I happen to like the "Look" of Ugly Duckling and adding Terminals in the manner you've proposed would be Pretty Straight-forward. However, I am loathe to go down that route, and Despoil Ugly Ducklings Aesthetics. I don't have similar Reservations about this issue with the "Webster". However, the cover is such a "Close Fit" over the "Innards" that you'd have more chance of "Poking Butter Up a Porcupines Arse with a Hot Knitting Needle", than being able to fit any securing Screws through its cover, without clearance issues.
jesusfwrl wrote:I thought I knew most of the Peak District quite well

Me too, I only live a Hop, Skip, and Jump Away, but even after 50++ Years of Visiting and Re-Visiting the Place, I always Surprise Myself and find some New Delight, for instance, the curious and enigmatic hillfort at Carl Wark, near Higgar Tor/Hathersage, which has so far defied archaeologists' attempts to date it. Mmm I wonder who built it??Romans? Vikings?? Extraterrestials?? Te He!!
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear

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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44697Unread post grooveguy
Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:56 am

What a shame, that the company has a minimum order like that! I was up against a similar situation with regard to copper oxide rectifier diodes, once widely used in AC panel meters, including the venerable Weston "VU" meters. Only one company still manufactures those diodes, and theirs is a $200 minimum. Thus I have done some research into making my own, using a chemical, rather than a furnace, process. It turns out that copper oxide diodes make ideal 'variolossers' for audio compressors and limiters, with a unique transfer function that is impossible to duplicate (in the analog domain, at least) with other nonlinear devices. A messy and dangerous process, however.

Give me a few days to look into US distributors of the Cambion line for some relief. Cambion's 'product reps' often carry some sample stock; I'll see what I can do, it would be nice to have a few myself.

The styli I use are all 'vintage' ones that I purchased in my callow youth from the US makers, Capps and MicroPoint. I have what, for me, is a lifetime supply of microgroove styli, which will undoubtedly see me into my dotage and perhaps to the point where I will utter, "...stylus... what's a stylus?" The wire I wrap them with is not silver-plated, but unwound from a power resistor. Back in 1960 I had a summer job at Jennings Radio, manufacturers of vacuum capacitors and vacuum switches. Jennings maintained a stock of largish 'cartridge' resistors, which looked much like cartridge fuses, if you guys over there are familiar with those. The resistor had a glass body with metal end-caps, which would plug into a pair of clips in a metal box. (This, of course, was back in the days when the Nanny Government didn't forbid exposed voltages and supersized soft drinks.) These came in a variety of resistance values, wattages and sizes. One day I dropped a smallish one (about 3 inches long), breaking the glass. Inside was a ceramic core wound with very fine resistance wire. I don't know if this is pure nichrome or an alloy, but it proved ideal for heating a non-conductive stylus, which I had graduated to, from steel, about that same time. Here's a shot of what's left of that resistance wire after more than 50 years. By the way, the wire measures 0.0035 inches in diameter.
Stylus Wire.jpg
Again, for me a lifetime supply.

I am somewhat familiar with the areas of the UK you fellows describe. Not only am I a Lathe Troll, but also a devotee of mechanical television, which had several successful years of service in the UK from technology by John Logie Baird in the 1920s and 1930s. There is a Narrow Bandwidth Television Association based in the Nottingham area, and I have attended a number of their get-togethers. One member, now sadly deceased (and missed) became a very good personal friend. He lived in Ross-on-Wye, but had a son who taught at Sheffield University. I could never keep his two sons straight, but the name would be either Mike Dixon or Peter Dixon.
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44699Unread post Soulbear
Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:14 pm

Hi grooveguy,
Yup, a shame about the minimum order quantity. I'm interested in your DIY Stylus Heater idea. With a similar idea in mind, I purchased some Nichrome Wire, this :-
Nichrome Wire.jpg
It's 0.15mm or just shy of .006", I bought it with the idea that if ever I snapped, broke, or otherwise damaged said heater wire on a Stylus, I'd have some way to renew it. Could you tell me please, what's the best adhesive to attach a few turns of this Nichrome Wire around a Stylus Shank grooveguy?? I'm a little concerned that the Aluminium Stylus Shank, could in effect "Short Out" the Turns of Wire on the Shank, making it less effective at Heating the stone
jesusfwrl wrote:I ended up making things like that from scratch because I couldn't find any.
Good thinkin' I'm Thinkin' Jesus, I've also speculatively just purchased a few more of these 3mm Stainless "Thumb Nuts" to do likewise :-
Thumbnut.jpg
I'll be able to judge if they're any better suited to this job, than the Spring Loaded Speaker Terminals when they arrive.
grooveguy wrote:you may find that the internal spring is too strong and may break your heater wire.
I agree grooveguy, I think all in all, as you say, the Spring Loading in these Terminals is more than likely to snap the Nichrome
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44700Unread post grooveguy
Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:44 pm

Soulbear,

I don't use adhesive, just wrap the wire tightly around the jewel itself, and the stiffness of the wire holds it in place just fine. Perhaps that's a difference between what I'm using and 'real' nichrome. From early experiments with the family's toaster, I recall that nichrome wire is quite stiff and springy, and might not hold a shape when wound around something without externally-applied tension. The resistor wire I'm using seems quite soft and pliable, although it's a bit thinner than yours. With all the styli I have, the jewel is long enough below the shank to get 3 or 4 close, but not touching, turns. I have seen resharpened sapphire styli that barely poked out of the shank, but that was years ago when schools and small studios sent theirs in to be resharpened until there was nothing left. I had some of mine resharpened years ago, and they came back at what looked like the same length. I suppose if one cracked the tip, that would require removal of quite a bit more jewel.

You might try wrapping the nichrome wire around a drill bit that's a bit smaller than your stylus tip. Then pull it off and carefully work the coil around the stylus tip. That should hold it in place. I know that mine is in intimate contact with the jewel because there is no red showing on the coil at all, just the connecting wires. This cropped and enlarged shot has almost enough resolution to show this:
Snap 1.jpg
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Soulbear
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44702Unread post Soulbear
Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:55 pm

Hi grooveguy,
grooveguy wrote:You might try wrapping the nichrome wire around a drill bit that's a bit smaller than your stylus tip. Then pull it off and carefully work the coil around the stylus tip.
Good idea, I thought about a either a wrap of Kapton Tape, or a Dab of Epoxy, placed on/around the Stylus Shank, however I've just today been searching elsewhere on the Forum, and on more than one Post, it's Dental Cement that's been mentioned. The intention is to cut Polycarbonate Discs, purely because of their Longevity and Playability when compared to a Lacquer, so Ruby or Sapphire Styli are not really an Option, it's going to have to be Diamond. Though I must admit, I really liked Jesus's Commonsense Approach and Suggestion to use Steel Styli whilst Setting Up/ Experimenting. Far less expensive in the event of a "Total Cock-Up" I had thought of possibly trying to test using some of these Steels :-
Phonohead Thorens D25 Side.JPG
They came with some very early Thorens Pick-Ups I bought.
Phonohead Thorens D200.JPG
Phonohead Thorens D25.JPG
It's quite some time ago, but I recall reading somewhere, that both Telefunken and Thorens, made both Pick-Ups and Cutterheads which are identical in Construction. The difference seems to be that Mechanical Energy Input results in an Electrical Output, and Electrical Energy Input resuts in a Mechanical Output. It's on my "To Do" List to have a Play around with both the Thorens D25 and D200 to see if I can "Convert" them from Phono Pick-Ups into Cutterheads. It may involve a little rewinding of the Coils, but here I'm merely speculating, I've never got around to even checking either of them for continuity yet, as I say It's on my Experimentation "To Do" list Te He!
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44705Unread post grooveguy
Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:24 pm

Hmmm. Never saw a Thorens cutter, but not surprised at Telefunken; I think they have dabbled in everything, and their 'best' head probably became a Neumann.
Not sure about tape or epoxy, as the heat would probably destroy them. But dental cement is a good idea, and I recall recording engineers talking about "water glass" in the old days. I guess that was sodium silicate, and here's a Website that tells you how to make it from household items:
http://chemistry.about.com/od/makechemicalsyourself/a/make-sodium-silicate.htm
Not sure I'd trust it completely, the drain cleaner might attack the aluminum shank before it hardens.

I'd certainly investigate that Thorens head. Coils are easy to rewind; I've been successful with Presto 1D and Fairchild cutters.

I read somewhere recently, either on this group or another authoritative disc-recording one, that diamond does not make a good cutting stylus. Something about the grain of the material. Whoever it was pontificating on this thought that sapphire and ruby had an edge (pardon the pun) on diamond, but current and actual results may indicate otherwise.

With the scarcity and/or expense of cutting styli and blank discs, I have been looking into embossing as an alternative. There's lots of experimentation in that direction represented on this group, and some members or those on YouTube have had remarkable success. There are a lot of factors to consider, and the techniques seem to vary all over the place. England's own Norman Field has demonstrated a method that incorporates a vertical stylus and some lubricant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7nKa_aHyR8
...proving that one can impress a deep groove.

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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44706Unread post Soulbear
Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:46 pm

Hi grooveguy,
You might find this an enlightening diversion :- http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_history.htm
There's mention here of Thorens Disc Cutting Lathe Production.
Yes agreed, Norman Field has made some Superlative Videos, very informative without getting too "Bogged Down" with the Techno-Babble Minutiae. There was a much admired TV Presenter here in the UK whose Specialism was Architecture and Mechanical Engineering, especially both Stationary and Steam Traction Engines. Sadly Dr Frederick Dibnah has now passed on, however I think Norman Field has much of Dr Freds easy going delivery style, with Electrical Technology being his Forte. His Youtube Videos on Cutting a 78 RPM Record, Stepper Motor Control, Using the Ubiquitous 555 Timer Chip, and Building a Crystal Radio Set, are both informative and succinct, and a joy to view. He also is quite a Leading Authority on Ancient and Venerable Recording Labels http://normanfield.com/
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear

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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44727Unread post Soulbear
Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:38 am

Hi Trolls,
I've Downloaded and Printed a DIY "Stroboscopic" Read-Out Disc with which to Test the Platter Speed of the DR33C using this DIY "Strobe" :-
DIY Stroboscope.jpg
I used a White "SuperBright" LED, although I did Play Around with 3 Other Coloured LED's too. They all worked pretty well too, on the 15V AC 50Hz output from a small 6VA Transformer, fed via a IN4007 Diode and 820 Ohm Dropper Resistor. The additional IN4007 may not be neccessary, I included it, simply to ensure that the LED doesn't see Voltage from Cathode to Anode on the Reverse AC Half-Cycle. I've no evidence to support this, however, I thought that maybe the Reverse AC Half-Cycle may possibly adversely affect the LED. There's maybe a clue in the name Light Emitting DIODE which means it may only Illuminate on the Forward AC Half-Cycle in any case, but as the IN4007 costs all of a Halfpenny each, Blowing the Expense, I stuck one in the Circuit anyway.

Here's the Test :-
Lazarus Lathe Strobe Test.3gp
As can be seen here, the Platter Runs a "Smidgeon Too Quickly" although it's not off by very much at all, and is something I can live with. I went digging around in my Toolbox for my Ancient 0-1" Micrometer to check the New Motor Drive Capstan. Instead of being the 0.360" Diameter I expected, I measured it at 0.362". The Platter Rim when measured, was found to be 12001" so I guessed the "Extra" 0.002" on the New Motor Drive Capstan to be Responsible for this almost Insignificant Speed Difference. Using the Calculator from here :- http://www.culvermotor.com/Engineering-Formulas/Pulley-and-RPM-Calculator.html I found that this "Extra" 0.002" gives me a Massive Speed Increase of a Whole 0.25 RPM!! The Platter Drive Motor is of the "Synchronous" Type, so the Speed is governed by the Supply Frequency. As the Regulations Covering the Allowable Tolerances of Variability of the U.K's Supply Frequency, would allow for at least Double this Speed Variance, I think this DR33C Lazarus Lathe will be OK.
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear
Continued..............
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Soulbear
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Re: Lazarus Lathe Project

Post: # 44732Unread post Soulbear
Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:40 am

H grooveguy,
grooveguy wrote:Hmmm. Never saw a Thorens cutter,
Thorens G-15 CutterHead.jpg
Thorens D200 Front-Veiw.JPG
The image is of the Thorens G-15 Cutterhead, and which I fully acknowledge I've copied from Flo Kaufman's Data-base of Cutterheads -thanks Flo. The D200 is my own Pick-Up. They are strikingly similar, which leads me to believe what I'd read about them being of the same construction. Now, if only I could remember where I'd read it!! My linguistic skills are poor to non-existent, however looking On-line I found Graveur to translate to "Engraver" and Lecteur to translate as "Reader" The possible "Conversion" of the Pick-ups into Cutterheads, remains however, a Project for another day.
Regards :wink: :P :D Soulbear
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