Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut (Angulo system)

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sunkingrecords
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Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut (Angulo system)

Post: # 30885Unread post sunkingrecords
Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:29 am

Hi!

I'm using this cutter machine (Angulo Records as I said in my previous post), and it uses an external turntable at the base, for the spinning of the record.
The recommended turntable is the Technics 1200, but, I have at the moment a Technics sl-q202. Of course, I'm having problems getting it to spin at all when under the pressure of the saphire.

The SL-q202 is supposed to be high torque, but it is not stated on the manual how high it is really, and compared to the 1200 (which is 1.5kg/cm).

I'm also having problems with the power tension at home, so I'm not sure if the torque is lacking because some lower voltage at the outlet, or the turntable itself is not able to provide it.

Any advice?

Kind regards!

Miguel
I choose not to run .-

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sunkingrecords
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30886Unread post sunkingrecords
Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:06 am

This is the machine: http://angulorecords.com/grabador-fonografico-2/ for those interested. Made in Argentina!

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opcode66
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30890Unread post opcode66
Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:02 pm

Look a lot like a JP build....
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30891Unread post sunkingrecords
Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:29 pm

I'm not sure who JP is, perhaps someone from this forum?

regards
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30894Unread post sunkingrecords
Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:37 am

I tried a search about "JP", all it came up was this thread http://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4977

But I can tell you, my machine does not have the least resemblance to the one mentioned in that thread.

Kind regards

Miguel
I choose not to run .-

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opcode66
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30898Unread post opcode66
Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:17 pm

Joanna Polinska

VSMPoland

Most Trolls believe VMSPoland is also [**well-intentioned potential libel, username removed by admin**]. That includes me.

What in the world do you need a numeric keypad for on a lathe?

We've seen at least one fake lathe recently. I'm sorry to say, but I don't believe this is a real record cutting lathe. Looks fake to me. Can we see it function in a video? Certainly whoever made such a fantastical device can make a convincing video, correct? The interface panel looks like someone printed an interface on paper and glued it on.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
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sunkingrecords
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30906Unread post sunkingrecords
Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:24 pm

I'll post a few pics tomorrow, very different machine to the one on that vms poland threads.

The numerics pad and usb input is for automation, of groove width, track separation and such. I did not try that yet, as I'm operating in manual mode. Well, still trying, to be precise.

Kind regards
I choose not to run .-

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opcode66
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30907Unread post opcode66
Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:11 am

Cool. Shoot video. You have a camera phone?
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
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sunkingrecords
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30911Unread post sunkingrecords
Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:54 am

Hi, here are a few pics I have on my cellphone. I'll try to shoot a video with it on the weekend, to show how my turntable fails to spin under the pressure.
The photos don't show it on the cutting process, just different angles of the machine.

IMG_20140723_103520.jpg
IMG_20140723_103440.jpg
IMG_20140731_183738.jpg
Kind regards!

Miguel
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30914Unread post emidisc
Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:33 pm

Yes I have got to agree with opcode on this - just compare the cutter head on his site and on the posted photos?. Why do people do this who are they trying to fool..... Beware I say!

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opcode66
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30915Unread post opcode66
Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:57 pm

Not making accusations. Just being very cautious. We've seen fake gear recently.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
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sunkingrecords
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30916Unread post sunkingrecords
Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:02 pm

Yes, the head looks very different. This machine is built from scratch, I'm told, as few if any vinyl recording hardware is still available in Argentina.
So far I haven't been very succesfull with it (at the moment, only have recorded noisy grooves), mostly because I'm still learning the process and the way the cutter works, and because I'm not using the turntable specified. I hope I will be able to make some progress soon.

Kind regards

Miguel
I choose not to run .-

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opcode66
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30917Unread post opcode66
Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:36 pm

Best of luck. Let us know if we can help. I will have a line of motors out by the end of the year. Small for playback. Medium for home brew cutters and people using older suitcase style cutters, and pappa Sr. for Neumann lathes. All BLDC Quartz Controlled.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

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sunkingrecords
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30970Unread post sunkingrecords
Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:17 am

I'm still intending to shoot a video with my camera phone, but still could not get this thing running. Hopefully a friend will bring a 1200 turnatble with enough torque to try a cut without manually spinning the plate, later this week.

Kind regards!

Miguel
I choose not to run .-

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RdF
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30974Unread post RdF
Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:28 pm

I'm also having some torque issues.
Not so much that I can't cut, but I am having some minor flutter which is driving me insane. I don't want to compensate by removing weight because I don't want to lose intensity in the sound. Also, I'm using the Technics 1210mk2, which should have enough torque...
Don't know, maybe my weight calibration of the cutterhead is off? Any ideas/suggestions?
I'm using the vinyl recorder, btw....

Cheers, thanks

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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30976Unread post sunkingrecords
Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:39 pm

I believe you should have plenty of torque with that turntable (I hope so because the one I'm getting is pretty much the same turntable), acording to what I've been told. I read somewhere that you can increase the torque by changing a resistor, maybe you should check into that?

Kind regards
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30990Unread post tragwag
Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:45 am

the torque of the 1200, from my results is about on the line with flutter.
on the VR you have to cut a really thin groove (less force) to minimize flutter.
If I try to cut a standard 2-3 mil groove, the flutter on the outside edge of the disc is unacceptable.

also beware, some turntables list much higher torque, though that is only STARTING torque.
What we are concerned with for record cutting is RUNNING torque. Of which I've never seen a stat for a newer turntable.

The only surefire turntable with enough torque for cutting are the 6N/Fairchild/RekOCut types, idler or belt driven models with comparatively HUGE motors.
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
http://www.audiogeography.com

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sunkingrecords
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 30996Unread post sunkingrecords
Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:53 pm

Hi tragwag,

Do you think there are chances of modifying a 1200 turntable to improve in regards the running torque? It appears to be an easy mod http://www.turntabletech.com/mechmods.htm

Perhaps combining this with a heavier plate can bring the 1200 to an acceptable performance?

Kind regards

Miguel
I choose not to run .-

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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 31011Unread post tragwag
Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:06 pm

Im not entirely sure of the math involved, but this is my basic understanding.
The torque mod does little to help running torque, though it increases starting torque. (useful for DJs for recovery time from scratching)
A heavier platter will help, though even with the mod the torque is not enough to spin a heavier platter reliably.

I've heard that some folks cut dubs with the Techinics SP-10 with quality results

The only sure fire solution is a higher torque motor, and heavier platter.
Which at that point, why not just get another system?
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
http://www.audiogeography.com

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sunkingrecords
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Re: Torque needed to spin a vinyl cut

Post: # 31125Unread post sunkingrecords
Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:55 pm

I happened to have an old Ken Brown stereo with a turntable that was easily separated from the furniture. Amazingly, it has plenty of torque!
Not sure about the stability, but i have yet to worry about that. Now I'm producing chip, and noisy grooves with my broken zaphire, until I get a hang on how to vacuum correctly.

Here are some pics
IMG_20140822_194829.jpg
IMG_20140822_194839.jpg
Regards

Miguel
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