Old Universal Microphone Co record cutter project, need help

[sjnepia]

Hi, my name is sam and im new to this forum and to anything to do with record cutting really (although i do own a record player..).

Ive stumbled across this old record cutter at a mates workshop, it has Recording Division, Universal Microphone Co Ltd, Inglewood Calif. stamped onto a plate on one of the parts and thats about all i can see for identification tags. It was apparently used by the New Zealand Broadcasting Company back in their day and im looking to clean it up and if possible getting it back into a working condition.

This is where you Trolls come into the picture as i have no idea what kind of lathe it is or what the parts that i actually have in front of me are

I did find an old piece from a magazine when searching the internet and that gave an image for a machine that i thought looked kinda similar, except the drive motor for the turntable wheel (excuse my inaccurate jargon) isnt in the place that it is in that image, that image and a couple of other photos of it are attached

Any help would be good greatly appreciated.

[sjnepia]

Further photos i took

[Stevie342000]

Did you purchase it? If not why not? Snatch their hand off and get it up and running, there is not much to go wrong with this one and it should be easy to clean it up, including taking it down to individual parts (making extensive notes) and working on part at a time, re-lube the bearings and get it up and running.

Read the forum, read the wiki, ask questions and you will be fine. This a good machine, would not think that there are many still surviving, aside from a bit of rust (which should clean up - ask the question if you do not know how to clean it).

does it need a cutter head? A Presto 1-c or 1-d should fit check out eBay or some similar site. The part that sits on the platter with all the studs on it looks like equalisation which should fit on the back of the cutter transit and will apply equalisation as the cutter head traverses the disc it compensates for losses in high frequencies as you get towards the centre of the disc.

You should have no trouble in getting it running and don't forget, read, read and ask plenty of questions but only after reading if you do not know how to go about taking the motor apart for instance, remember if you break a part then you are going to have issues. But we now have the option of 3-d printing but that is not going to work for the motor. The bearings may need replacing again ask questions.

There are many people here who can help and to the best of my knowledge there is little information on the Universal cutting lathes, so this project could in the longer term help others.

[studiorp]

I think that remove all rust from each part will be a problem; not impossible but difficult...
Wonderful machine in each case, good luck with your restoring project.

[rsimms3]

Here's a recent eBay auction of the same/similar machine in good condition that you could do some comparisons against the parts you have.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Recording-record-cutting-lathe-/141556069417?nma=true&si=op6EK61dlRWB8uON%252BJrZDCXLD2I%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Stevie342000]

I am not exactly sure how you would go about removing the rust but I would imagine some wire wool possibly with some wetting agent and an application of elbow grease to each part (dismantled, photographed and documented) might be a good place to start?

It looks to me like this one is more complete than the one that sold on eBay for US$1800, once you have cleaned it up and put it all back together (as you are going) we may get a better idea of which parts are missing.

Be careful when cleaning the stepped motor pulley, my suggestion would be to remove it, you may need to heat it in order to get the grub screw loose that holds it to the shaft as well as an application of WD40 to loosen any parts in order to take it apart.

You will need to clean the main bearing well and re-lube it and a thin film of petroleum jelly on other parts will keep the rust at bay. I think you can use molybdenum grease or something similar on some of the bearings, not sure which oil to use for the main platter bearing, you could use sewing machine oil which is not a synthetic oil and should do the trick.

You may or may not have to replace lots of ball bearings just ask if you are not sure and some one will answer you. Make sure you document everything as you go and put the various small parts into well labelled bags or container and keep them safe.

You can document your progress as you go or do it all at a later date, it may be easier to do it as you go, this would then serve others well when they have to clean up there machines, as they will have your journey as a reference.

[sjnepia]

Stevie342000, no I didnt purchase it, my friend is enthusiastic to have it up and running but doesnt have the time to put into it, so i said i would put some time and effort into restoring it in exchange for him building me a guitar amplifier (he owns an audio services shop) which i would use alot more than a record cutter personally.

It does need a cutter head.. all the parts in the photos are all the parts that i currently have. Information like that is invaluable to me at this time
Yeah I certainly will be documenting it as much as I can, I have good kack at taking things apart but do need more practice at taking them back together hah.

rsimms3, that does look really similar, i think they used a different motor set up due to the cutter being used in New Zealand under 240V mains.

Cleaning each part will be done by getting a wire buffer to scratch all the rust off, it isnt deep rust, just surface stuff so the shape of the parts wont be too damaged by the corrosion, theyll just need a basic scratch up.

Are there any books on these universal microphone machines? Or even books on the maintenance of similar 1930's style record cutters? Just so i can have a look at similar machines to learn the jargon that comes along with these, and gain some knowledge on where the parts go.

Stevie342000, where abouts did this equalisation fit on the cutter transit? Im guessing the cutter transit is the top slider that the cutter head fits too. Does it go over the main platter? Looking at the bolt holes i cant find anywhere that it easily fits..

Thanks heaps for all your support at the moment. Its hugely appreciated

[Stevie342000]

I would haggle for time to use the machine in exchange for getting it up and running as well, they may get board with it and you could still end up with that it way. Not only that it will get you the experience.

Jerry sells steel styli which you can use to practice on once you get yourself a cutter head, they turn up frequently on eBay, but be warned cutting equipment is going up in price as the media becomes more interested in the vinyl revival (it never went away so not sure how it is a revival).

As for book these can be found in Classifieds section as can the steel styli (available on eBay):
1. Morrison book on Recording covers disk recording from 1930 to 1960 - if memory serves it has Universal kit in it.
2. Boden Book Basic Disc recording has the more hands on approach on how to and the various parts that make up a cutting chain.

3. I would recommend this site: http://www.americanradiohistory.com/index.htm
It has a whole host of old school defunct magazines it should provide interesting reading, check out Audio (which in the early years has some articles up to 1954 on disc recording and practices. But you should also check out Radio Electronics, Radio Craft & Radio News. I was looking at Radio Electronics yesterday and there was an article on Chet Atkins in 1966 which had a project on a Guitar Amp (I think).

4. Radio Electonics 1966 - as your lathe has only two speeds (I am assuming from from the two steps on the motor shaft/pulley) I came across an article that might be of use - a DIY project on Variable Speed for you Tapes and Records - which you could use to change it to a 3 speed - you will need to modify J1 & P1 if you are not using 110 Volts but electronics guy should be able to help with that. Here is the link: http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Radio_Electronics%20_Master_Page.htm You are looking for March 1966 page 57. There is a similar article in Audio in 1962 and in Radio News in 1957 (which gives the full circuit for the Fairchild version).

5. The AES anthologies on Disk Recording Volumes one and two are available and document the art of cutting not covered by others and cover most of the era from late 40s to the 1980s - you can get them from the AES website. Some are published in Audio magazine as that was part of the publishing process as it was founded about the same time as the AES and articles up to 1954 appear there until AES starts to publish them itself from that point onwards.

6. Lots of information to be found in Reference section on:
6.1 There was an Article in Radio News I think on how to build a belt driven turntable in 1942 and again 1953 - it tells you how to make belts and it gives you the maths to do do the pulley as well.
6.2 There are other articles which are by the BBC Research Department which should keep you busy as well especially up to the late 40s until tape takes over.
6.3 Check out the reference section and the classifieds section and read when you find the time the rest of the other posts - much has been mentioned before - any questions you might have may have been covered already.

7. Have a look on Preservation Audio Website there is a Presto Catalogue from 1940 which should have pictures of the Radius Compensation mounted and unmounted http://www.preservationsound.com/?m=201501 There is a later version from 1947 of the Presto catalogue on this site probably in Reference section posted in the last few days. Warning Warning with the Preservation website you may get lost in there for several days, there is lots of interest to those which to build their own studio kit.

As for where the Radius compensation is mounted I would imagine that the bit with the studs on will be stationary and fit on the main sledge (the big flat metal bit - roughly rectangular in profile) - which the cutter head carriage rides on driven by the lead screw - on which will be some metal studs no doubt which will make contact with the other part attached to the sledge - hope that makes sense. Anyhow I am sure you will figure out where it goes or if it was ever fitted at all.

Radius compensation was used prior to the heated stylus method (articles may be found in Audio or in other books previously mentioned) - after the heated stylus method was adopted radius compensation fell out of use.

My assumption was that the rust was all of the surface time due to it not being oiled before being put away for a number of years.

As for the cleaning of the rust take it slow and take it easy, if the finish on the sledge on yours is of the lathe turned type as the one pictured on eBay then you do not want to damage any of that in cleaning it up.

That about wraps it up from me for now, this should be an interesting journey on how to restore a machine, especially if you document it well. It could then be used as a template for others when they come to doing theirs should they be lucky enough to find a machine. There should be plenty of them out there still in barns or in the backs of studios, or in lofts. The most common machines would be in my opinion be Presto or Fairchild - any others such Wilcox Gay were really only meant for home use and were not any where near Professional or Semi Professional.

Of course a Neumann or a Scully would be whole different kettle of fish but I think you will find that there is an RCA internal document that has some mention of Scully in it, yes that too can be found (I think) in the reference section.

Which begs the question (other than there is not much information out there on either Scully or Neumann - RCA lathe information can be found at American Broadcast history under RCA Broadcast section) why is there not a topic dedicated to Neumann or Scully - I know you may not be able to publish the Neumann stuff as they are still going - but if memory serves they have little information left themselves but Scully are long gone.

Could we not have some topic threads with Neumann, Scully Fairchild, BBC, Grampian where little markers could be put which would take people to a subject on that manufacturer - rather than having to search the whole forum it would make it easy for newbies and for us older timers as well?

[Matt]

Some info that may prove helpful

[Stevie342000]

You might find the US patent number 2198080 of some use as well it is for one of the Universal Cutter heads.

[sjnepia]

Haha Stevie, i think i wold get bored of it before he would, and he works in the audio industry so i think he will find a lot more use for the machine. I will end up using it, but more than anything i will enjoy the dismantling, analysis and reconditioning of this project. Ressurections are fun aren't they..

A couple of pieces that will complete the machine have appeared out of the woodwork. It was last run in the 1970's and has apparently got all its pieces there in front of me, ive just got to get them back together. The man i attained it from has given me photos of it from before it was disassembled for transport, to the place where i came across it, and these are going to help hugely when looking at the rewiring of the electrical components.

I have been on http://www.americanradiohistory.com before and found a photo of one of the Universal Recording Companies professional machines, its the magazine excerpt i posted above. It certainly looks like a mammoth amount of searching but a huge database of info, so thanks for that.

Yeahp it is a two speed, the plate on the cutter transit (top slider) confirms that. The motor has a speed selector that allows for two speeds determined by the radius of the drive wheel that comes straight from the motors shaft. From there either of two wheels can be engaged and drive the pulley wheel at a certain RPM. The plate on the cutter transit states it can do 78 RPM and 33 RPM, so for it to do 45 RPM wouldn't be too much hassle i would say.. We'll see if its a worthy option later down the road.

No, im not 110 Volts, New Zealand mate so 240 Volts. hence the completely different drive mechanism.

Using the old photos from when it was assembled ive got the Radius compensation (the part with all the studs on it) mounted where it should be now.

Ive mounted ball bearings inside the slides grooves where they are supposed to go. So the transit (top slide) will move now nice and smooth.

The transit itself is not lathe finished, it was chromed so i wouldnt mind getting that refinished when it comes time.

The sledge (turntable, big disc, 30kg monster) will be lathe finished again. Ive got access to lathes and lathe technicians who can help me greatly along this project, im up at university in the engineering dept. so i will be annoying them alot for this project.

Matt,

Those documents are fantastic! It does look like a slightly different machine but gives a good idea on what the parts do, i.e the vibration removing arm that clamps the top slide to the bottom slide on the transit, i didnt know that was there for vibratory purposes, when i started moving it around all of the old degraded rubber started flaking out of the hinge so that will be replaced with a nice NEW bushing now to really get the clamping and vibratory reduction in a good manner.

Here are some photos of how it looks at the moment and the other pieces that were with it when it was saved from some mans basement.

Note the cutting heads that are with it, they are both London MC and BBC grade? I dont know if thats a good thing but i like the clean look of the unused one. I think it may need a new stylus needle though as the one in the box is flat on the end of it and the old degraded one has a needle that is pointed at the tip.. Could the unpointed one be broken? or is this how they came and it needs sharpening? Either way, externally the clean one looks to be in an amazing condition.

Thanks again for your advice Steve, and thanks Matt for those documents.

[sjnepia]

These are the three positions of the motor. First os the top wheel engaged, second is neutral (both wheels engaged to motor pulley though), and the third the bottom wheel is engaged

[sjnepia]

Finally a photo of where it was laid to rest before the rescue attempt was made

[Stevie342000]

Well I have stopped licking the screen now, that really is a stunning machine and a testament to the people that designed and built it. It may have been in use for about 40 years before it was taken out of commission.

The MOY head was probably built by Grampian for the BBC, so it will be a relatively good head, magnets may be shot, so you need to check that. They would have been the best you could get for the day if the BBC were using them.

The American audio History article which maybe of help to you is for a Belt Driven Turntable published in March 1953 or an earlier article from December 1941 both to be found in Radio News. Some of the BBC info is here: http://bbceng.info/index.htm under Technical Instructions or here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications

There is not much there about your lathe but there is a wealth of information.

The Radio News articles give you the maths to work out how to make other pulleys which would then give you more than 2 speeds. As for the rubber idlers they will all need to be rebuilt - is there any one in Australia that can do that? There are people who can do it in UK or America try google search or here: http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/index.php? I think it has been mentioned recently in either tape or audio thread.

You may find that the main sledge has been finished as mentioned in article with a watch makers finish, you may become more aware of that as you clean it, yes restoring is fun. These things may be obsolete but they are repairable unlike much of the equipment available now.

Have fun and keep us posted, you'll soon have the long nights to devote to cleaning this as we head into spring and you head into autumn.

[Drywall]

Fantastic! I also have one of these machines; A Universal Mic Co. Professional Model, which differs from the Master Model.

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned in the thread, but if you're operating a magnetic head, you will need an aluminum spacer on the iron platter.

[Matt]

Drywall,

What is the difference between the Professional Model and Masters Model?

[Matt]

If anyone has an info or insight on either how long to belt should be to drive one of the universal lathes? Or how far the motor should be mounted from the unit? Both would be extremely helpful.

I did recently find an older forum post regarding the original universal cutting head that seemed of some interest, I will see if I can find again and post a link.