Questions about scully lathes

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Vinylaudio
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Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 37011Unread post Vinylaudio
Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:39 pm

Hello All

I'm new here. I own a Neumann VMS70 and i'm also interessed at Scully lathes. Although i read a lot in this forum i have no overview about the Scully modell numbers. Can someone give me an overview about the Scully lathes from the fourties to the late seventies? And can someone tell me which prelistening time is needed for the Scully lathes with variable pitch?

Thank you for your help.

Best Regards from Switzerland

Simon

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EmAtChapterV
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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 37023Unread post EmAtChapterV
Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:10 pm

Paging W.B. ?

What I know: a Scully 501 was a gearbox lathe, with a "gearshift" in front selecting one or two ranges of fixed pitches, the coarser of the two usually being between 88 and 136 lpi. The lead-in and lead-out pitches were a division of the recording pitch selected and the record speed.

A Scully 601 was a variable-pitch lathe, with a large knob on the front panel controlling the orientation of an idler between two hemispherical pulleys. A servomotor driven by an external variable pitch system controlled the knob. The pitch was variable between 70-400 lpi, 105-600 lpi or 140-800(!) lpi. Lead-in and lead-out pitches were independent of the recording pitch, and were almost always close to 15 or 32 lpi (in/spiral) and 2 or 4 lpi (out). A catch groove easing into the locked groove at the end of a record side is a trademark of these lathes, though not all of them did this, depending on how they were adjusted and set up. A bank of knobs at the back of the sled triggered microswitches which controlled lead-in, tape starts and catch and locked grooves or tail-out grooves for the various diameters and speeds.

Both the 501 and 601 leadscrews could be hand-cranked for lead-ins, spirals and lead-outs if needed. On the ones I've seen, the hand-crank was geared very coarse compared to the screw; one full revolution would move the sled about 1/4 inch. Also, most 501s have both outside-in and inside-out leadscrews (two levers near the "neck" of the sled), while 601s more often just have the outside-in screw.

A Scully LS76 lathe disposed of most of the gears, pulleys and cranks and drove the leadscrew off a computer-controlled motor, with an LED display for the LPI. Sometimes they had Capps pitch control systems.

There's also an interim lathe (I hereby dub a Scully 551) in between the 501 and 601 that has elements of both. EJ Emmons has one. The pitch goes from 70 to 350 instead of 400, but can be driven beyond that as coarse as 64 lpi.

As far as I know, the Scully 601 preview system needed a full revolution of preview, 1.8 seconds at 33 1/3. The servomotor driving the pointer dial that drove the idler was not particularly fast or responsive compared to a Neumann system. EJ Emmons, again, has several videos of his system at work.

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Deke Dickerson
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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 37062Unread post Deke Dickerson
Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:21 am

Here's Lawrence J Scully's patent (submitted 1958) explaining the variable-pitch system. He quotes 2 seconds lead time in the patent description, but 1.8 seconds is probably more accurate.

https://www.google.com/patents/US2948783?dq=ininventor:Lawrence+ininventor:Scully&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIyp2Woo_axwIVyDuICh0LmwT8

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W.B.
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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 37112Unread post W.B.
Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:49 pm

I can add to some of 'EmAtChapterV's' points:
- After the invention of the LP record, Scully 501's (first introduced in 1938) had two different sets of mods, depending on what the client wanted. A second row of gearbox pitches could range from either 150 to 234 lpi, or 178 to 274 lpi. Columbia's New York studios had a Scully which, in either level, could cut pitches 1.5 times what was cited (136 - 204 and 225 - 351). From what I've seen of Decca 45's cut on this old type lathe, the maximum pitches would have been of the 178 - 274 lpi range (the highest-pitch on The Who's "We're Not Gonna Take It" from 1969, before the release of the "See Me, Feel Me" section as a stand-alone single the next year). I seem to have seen a plate (as 'Deke Dickerson' in another post showed a photo of) with a range of 104 - 152 lpi. The 501 prototype was a set of 20, delivered to all of the then-Victor's studios across the country (New York, Chicago and Hollywood) between 1934 and 1937.
- The interim lathe that 'EmAtChapterV' dubbed a '551' was the first whereby variable pitches would be noticeable on lacquers (the earliest being from 1953-54). This model was introduced in late 1950, and the earliest releases I've seen cut on this type lathe were issued on RCA Victor in the late winter / early spring of 1951. The various lead-in (of which there was also an 8 pitch) and lead-out grooves were designated in one magazine review of the AES convention where this lathe was first demonstrated and displayed, as "automatic spiraling." The lathe from this period that EJ Emmons has, may well have been of the same type used at RCA's New York studios in 1956 and seen in that year's film The Sound and the Story. There were two layouts of this type panel. Most were on one row rather than two. And according to a newsletter of Bill Putnam's UREI(?) in 1969, the Scully at their San Francisco studio, Coast Recorders (later leased by Columbia from 1970 to 1978), had a pitch range of 60 to 400 lpi.
- Well over a hundred lathes of the combined 601 and interim '551' variety were sold and used around the world, given how many would have been in one studio and how many records I have that were cut at various studios. I'd say those two models are my favorites, with the spiraling being highly recognizable.

As for why Larry Scully would have cited '2 seconds' as a lead time, it sounded like he was rounding off to the nearest whole number.

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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 37405Unread post ejemmons
Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:42 pm

With reference to that 2 second 'lead time', I have found in my system, a Scully "551" - thanks, Em! - with a somewhat re-engineered 261C, that 1 second is more than enough to carry the day. I suppose that could be more granularly realized, but I snap at 1 sec in Nuendo, which I use to drive the system, audio and MIDI, and out of sheer sloth have not done the proper study. I feel however, that it's probably more like 750 mS....
Scully "500" with Westrex 3DIIa,
RA-1574E amps.

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EmAtChapterV
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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 37420Unread post EmAtChapterV
Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:23 pm

Has anyone done a serial number "roll call" of existing Scully lathes? This would be the place to do it. EJ Emmons, I know yours is #489, and Gus Elg has #611. So that's 2 of 122 so far.

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Vinylaudio
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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 37863Unread post Vinylaudio
Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:57 am

Thank you for these very helpful informations.
In view, that my Studer A80 has a prelistening time of 1.08s for 33 1/3 rpm (0.6 turns), it must be possible to use also a Scully Lathe with this deck, when i use the loop for the next higher tapespeed (eventually combined with a digital Delay for 0.16s in the prelistening channel)...

Simon

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emorritt
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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 37867Unread post emorritt
Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:55 am

I have #s 426 and 588

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W.B.
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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 38495Unread post W.B.
Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:41 pm

Now, there is a possibility that between the models 501 and 601, one of the intermediate models was 503. I say this because of a classified ad in the November 1975 issued of DB (link here), put out by Jerry Barnes of the famous United Western Studios in Hollywood:
SCULLY LATHE. =503 auto variable pitch, vacuum table and suction system. [price mentioned, irrelevant to point] =501 also available.

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mossboss
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Re: Questions about scully lathes

Post: # 38504Unread post mossboss
Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:55 am

Very nice thread, more of the same please guys
Best
Chris

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