Calculating costs and cutterhead lifespan

[jesusfwrl]

A bit of a newbie question, since I am one.. I still don't have a lathe and I'm still calculating costs and making arrangements..

So, I'm trying to calculate the running costs of a cutting lathe. So far, my calculation includes the cost of the blank, the cost of the stylus (according to expected wear), and a tiny bit of electricity..

But I realised, that since I am far from experienced, I might be missing a lot of other things. Do cutter heads wear out with normal use? Or do they only get damaged if you do something you shouldn't do? Is it expected that as a beginner I'm going to keep on damaging cutter heads or not? When you stopped being beginners, did you still end up damaging cutter heads every now and then? Or is this an exceptional situation?

How about lead screws and other parts of the mechanical assemblies? How often do these need attention? Assuming I have a lathe in excellent condition, what else would I need to calculate for running costs apart from blanks and stylii?

[mossboss]

Well that's not a hard one mate Put simply it depend what sort of a lathe you are talking about
It is the nature of professional cutting lathes to be build very heavy using cast iron and bronze for the platter
That's so as to make sure vibrations from external sources do not effect them
In so far as the main body is concerned it is cast iron, platters are bronze and heavy as well so as again minimise of eliminate wow as well as stray mag fields
Lead screws and motors are very rarely in need for replacement so are bearings, the things that need replacing once a year are belts rubber or otherwise even though they do last for many years
So assuming that you don't smoke a head thats about what you would have to wear
in so far as lacquers as well as styli they are paid for by the client as you go as they are our stock of trade in a way
Styli as a rule of thumb about 20 cutting hours even though I have personally seen them in the 70-80 hours and still good, besides there is a post here from some guy in Germany who said that he's was over 200 hours and still good
By the way I have also seen them bite the dust in one cut but the suppliers will normally replace them if that's the case
So my advise is quite simple If any one comes to you who wants a plus 6-8 dB cut ask him to also put about $6 K on the table as well as his order as it is likely that you will smoke the head and that is what a repair cost is as well as about a months waiting time for it to get done
Stick to the well established standards don't play around with the manufacturers instructions as well as removing or adjusting any preventative circuitry they have on the lathe so as to prevent head destruction
Get a box or two of dub plates and cut away, after you been " trained" if there is such a thing, get used to the lathe as they are all unique with their own nuances peculiarities or identities if you wish, than hang up your shingle as a cutter and be prepared to keep on learning in others words you will keep on finding things which work for you but not others and visa versa
Good luck you don't need in this game, just good management will do it my man
Cheers

[jesusfwrl]

Thanks for the reply! Sounds like essentially the hardest part is getting a lathe in the first place and setting it up, then learning how to use it properly. After that, it really doesn't sound too hard. I hope I'm going to get over the acquiring a lathe part soon, so I can focus on learning how to use it. But really, it is the most expensive endeavour I have ever considered, by a long shot!

[piaptk]

The most expensive part is your diploma from the school of seemingly unending fuckups as you try to teach yourself. $100 styli smoked in one cut (an Apollo will not replace them when it is your fault... And your first year+, it will be your fault for sure.).

It ain't hard once you've spent 2,000+ hours figuring it out. But the learning curve is steep and pricey.

[piaptk]

And what kind of lathe Are you looking for? $35k pro mastering lathe or $2k mid-fi amateur unit? You better be ready for a REAL long term investment if you want the pro lathe. It will be years and years before that pays for itself. And the small lathe will most likely never pay for itself (until you sell it to some other idealistic sucker!). This is a long road to hoe and the only people who actually use their lathes after the first few months are those who are obsessed with it and refuse to be beaten down. I made the mistake of selling 3 of my 4 6ns three years ago, and not a single one of them is currently in use. They all got frustrated and mothballed em.

[jesusfwrl]

Well... I seriously doubt this is something I would give up. I have been desperately trying to get into this for the best part of a decade now, with never enough money for it. I still am pretty much where I started (not enough money, no lathe) but at least I have read loads about this subject. I have finally managed to come up with barely enough money (after almost not eating for ten years, and risking getting divorced, and living in a vehicle for 3 years or so) for a mid-fi lathe. More than $2k unfortunately. More like a $7k vinylrecorder.

I still cannot afford a pro mastering lathe (Neumann/Westrex/Scully). But, for what I mostly want to be doing, the vinylrecorder seems decent enough, and a good entry into cutting (or rather my only chance at the moment). My prime interest is being able to cut short runs of records of the artists on my label, most of which are extremely obscure, but with a rather dedicated small following. I could easily sell 50 records of each, but never 500. So pressing plants for this label are out of the question. Not having their music on vinyl is also out of the question. I believe that all good music should have a chance of being cut onto vinyl, even if it has limited commercial potential.

I also would like to try my luck with laquer cutting eventually, but I do realise that no matter what I do it will never be a neumann. But, if I never get started at all, it sure won't be a neumann either!

I have an all-analog recording and mastering studio and the only all-analog format I am able to offer on my label consistently at the moment is cassette tape, which I love, but not many other people share this love. I have had some vinyl cut by other people which has sold extremely well, so I am quite optimistic about the viability of offering all my releases on vinyl. I would of course also offer my services to anyone interested, including my studio clients. I don't think it would take too long for it to pay for itself, but of course I might be painfully wrong.

But I've always wanted to cut vinyl. I love vinyl. It has been my favorite means of listening to music since I started listening to music. It's been a constant dream throughout my life to one day be able to cut my own vinyl.

I seriously don't think that the learning process is going to daunt me. The only thing that can stop me is some kind of financial disaster before I manage to buy the damn lathe! As for what happens after I buy it... Well, I learn how to use it!! If it pays for itself, so for the better, I can run it as a business. If not, I'll just cut records for myself as a hobby and die poor. I'd rather do that than die poor without cutting records.. Dying poor is almost a certainty.. What I do until then, though, is what really matters.

What I'm trying to calculate is how much I can sell the records that I cut for, to make a reasonable profit while keeping it affordable for customers.. The numbers I come up with make me optimistic.. I hope I'm not in for a huge surprise..

[audadvnc]

I've spent the last year or so restoring and operating a Scully lathe with Westrex heads & electronics. The top expenses I have seen are:
- cutting head repair from overload (occasionally) or wiring mishap (more likely). Those coils go <ffft>just like that! $600 / repair.

- electronics repair from old, early transistor cutting amps failing from overload or wiring mishap. Sense a trend here? I repair my own electronics, but if you don't know how you'll need an in-house tech or you won't be able to keep it going.

- cutting stylus replacement. You will break, chip, pit, mar and burn up a lot of these in the first year while you learn to set up your machine (unless you can find somebody to teach you otherwise). $100 ea.

- record blanks. My first 25+ made good beer coasters and doorstops ($35 ea.)

- pressing plant re-do's. Don't send out anything for press unless you're sure it's right. Of course, you'll never be absolutely sure.

"A record lathe is a hole in the studio you pour money into."

[jesusfwrl]

"A record lathe is a hole in the studio you pour money into."

That's optimistic...!

Thanks for all the information everyone. I've pretty much settled on the vinylrecorder for now. I hope it all goes smooth and well. Obviously, you'll be hearing much more from me when I actually get the thing in my studio!

This site is really an awesome resource for getting into this.