Suggestions for a new vinyl recorder

[IvoHulscher]

Hi,

I am setting up an online service for which I need several vinyl recorders. In short the service will be: create a personalized vinyl record from your favorite digital music. It will be sort of a gimmick like creating a mixtape. It will be part of an advertising campaign so I am expecting a lot of requests in a relatively short period. That's why I'll need probably more than one.

I have tried to get the T560, but they do not produce or deliver units at this moment. As I am on a tight schedule, I would like to ask for suggestions for alternatives. I have seen Vinylium recorders, but I do not know if they are still in business. Are there any alternatives on the market today? I am totally new to record cutting so I am hesitant to buy older equipment, as I would probably need a full-time engineer with it:-) But perhaps that's a misperception?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!

Greetings from Amsterdam,
Ivo

[opcode66]

Ahhhh, one of my favorite places in the world. I've been to Holland 7 times.

Vinylium is no longer making cutting systems.

Souri says he is waiting until he gets enough interest to do another run of Vinyl Recorders. I hope that is true.

Otherwise, you will have to be patient and wait for one to be sold from an existing owner. I'm also looking for a VinylRecorder. So, we might be bidding against each other.

Unless you have a way to make your own diamonds, I think you will need to buy from Souri directly. He doesn't support second hand systems.

[concretecowboy71]

Will you be licensing the music you intend to copy? If not, you are violating copyright laws by reproducing others music.

[opcode66]

We've debated this on the forum before. If you have purchased a piece of music, you do have the right to make a personal copy. You can buy music from itunes and have it on both your computer and your phone. Perfectly legal. We've debated weather transferring formats is really any different. If I buy a song and want it on my phone or on a record for my own personal use as a backup copy, what is the difference? So, if I pay someone to do the transfer, what is the difference? So, is what this person suggesting really illegal? They aren't suggesting selling these on the corner or in a store or online. They are suggesting one-off creations for individual owners of the music.

[IvoHulscher]

Hi,

It will be an entirely legal service. Either through making use of home-copy contribution fees or through arrangements with joint record labels. Which one it will be is still legal work-in-progress. For now I do not even have vinyl recorders so this issue is number two on my list:-)

Regards,
Ivo

[Steve E.]

We've debated this on the forum before. If you have purchased a piece of music, you do have the right to make a personal copy. You can buy music from itunes and have it on both your computer and your phone. Perfectly legal. We've debated weather transferring formats is really any different. If I buy a song and want it on my phone or on a record for my own personal use as a backup copy, what is the difference? So, if I pay someone to do the transfer, what is the difference? So, is what this person suggesting really illegal? They aren't suggesting selling these on the corner or in a store or online. They are suggesting one-off creations for individual owners of the music.

While this is being mentioned, I'd like to note: There is indeed a thread on this, but I have consulted with lawyers recently and it is not so cut and dried, it turns out, at least in the US, and at least as of very recently. I was surprised. Something to know!! Be careful. That other thread should probably be reopened.

But so that this current thread doesn't get entirely derailed, let's assume Ivo has worked that out and stick with his technical/logistical question.

[concretecowboy71]

Opcode.

I do beg to differ with your opinion on this topic. In no way is making a record the same as putting a copy on your computer and phone. You are making a mechanical copy of the music and this is clearly prohibited by US copyright law. Whether the copy is sold or given away, you need a license to make this copy. In fact you would need a mechanical license and a master license to create this copy. The person who bought the music in not making the copy, a third party is, who is trying to make money. I feel the views on copyrights here are skewed to rationalize being able to make copies of other peoples music. I have to kick master back to clients if they even contain a sound bite from a movie.

Refer to the Harry Fox Agency for more info on this topic.

[opcode66]

I'm not talking about making a stamper plate. Just a single dub for playback. How can that possibly be considered any different than a tape copy?

[concretecowboy71]

I don't argue that people should not be able to make copies of their music. Making mix tapes was once a favorite pastime of mine. If a large entity decided to try and enforce a copyright case against me or the people I work for, it would cost me my business. I believe that United was once shut down due to pressing records with uncleared samples. Part of my job is to make sure this does not happen to the folks I work with.

We could find lawyers to argue both sides of this case I am sure...they would take all our money.

The real beauty and flaw of laws is that they are allowed to be interpreted. I choose a stricter interpretation of the law in question because I feel it protects me and my business. Other laws are bullshit and I break them on a regular basis.

My apologies to the mod. I will not post in this topic again. OP, best of luck with your venture, making mix albums would be a lot of fun.

[opcode66]

Wait a minute. How did this become my venture??? I don't do this.

[IvoHulscher]

Anyone an on-topic suggestion;-) ?

Thanks!
Ivo

[concretecowboy71]

Opcode.

OP means original poster. Not a reference to you. Pretty standard abbreviation for forums.

[concretecowboy71]

To stay on topic, since you don't really have an option for a turn key lacquer cutting device, you will not be making vinyl records BTW, you will be making dub plates of some kind. Perhaps making cassettes would be a good option for you. I have seen a lot of indie folks doing this here as a lower cost alternative to producing records.

I would be interested to hear more about the mastering process for getting all of these tunes cut also. There would be a fairly significant amount of work involved to even out levels and EQ for songs coming from multiple sources.

[opcode66]

Well, that is true. But, that is part of the flavor of a mix isn't it? Normalizing volume is all I would do. Allowing the character of each independent work to shine is sort of the point. They shouldn't be homogenized like tracks off a studio album.

The kids call 'em lathe cuts.

Sorry Clint, others have shortened my name on the board before to just op.

[IvoHulscher]

Just a quick update: still on the look-out for our own vinyl recorder, but rights are cleared officially now. So everyone gets paid their fair share:-)

[studiorp]

Hmm, great question Ivo : where find record cutting machines and then buy lathes new or used ?
For me the better solution at the moment is buy used and then modify , because Vestax is discontinued, Vinylium and Vinylrecorder are difficult to find, so remain the chance of used.

An example of mine lathe project : before :
http://albums.photoonweb.com/s/studiorp/lathe_old_original/

and after : http://albums.photoonweb.com/s/studiorp/studiorp_lathe/


Then depend too from your euros budget...

See this in the meantime : http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-496847315-grabadora-de-discos-de-vinilo-_JM

[powerstrip]

Ivo:

Seems like you're going in head first here.

lets say you get several vinyl recorders. lets just say four. and they are moderately high quality machines. that means the are likely $5k usd each on average. You're 20k in so far. And you have never made cuts before. so now what if you blow a cutterhead or are having trouble getting the right sound? You may need an engineer on retainer afterall...

maybe as they say, cart before the horse. start with one and go from there.

[powerstrip]

Will you be licensing the music you intend to copy? If not, you are violating copyright laws by reproducing others music.

Hate to open this back up. but can't we consider this just payment for format conversion?

"Home taping is killing music..."

Yeah but I'm paying this guy to make me a PERSONAL ,ARCHIVAL copy. not to pirate the new justib beiber record and get rich off these 14 year old girls and their spiffy new phonographs

[IvoHulscher]

I've got machines, an engineer, I've covered the mechanical, publishing and master rights so in a month I'll be up and running. Thanks for the heads up:-)

[Steve E.]

Hate to open this back up. but can't we consider this just payment for format conversion?

"Home taping is killing music..."

Yeah but I'm paying this guy to make me a PERSONAL ,ARCHIVAL copy. not to pirate the new justib beiber record and get rich off these 14 year old girls and their spiffy new phonographs

It's a case for the courts, really. We might have our personal beliefs about what is "fair", but the laws in the US are made with the input of pretty powerful lobbying from the record industry. It sounds like Ivo has the rights worked out with individual record companies. I have not heard of record companies going after any individuals who are doing such things, but I feel it is only right to mention that, in fact, in the USA, they could.

Let's find that original thread and continue further discussion on the topic there!