Clariophone cutterhead for sale

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cuttinglover
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Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45043Unread post cuttinglover
Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:18 pm

PICT0004.JPG
PICT0003.JPG
PICT0028.JPG
Clariophone DMX 60
Selling one out of four dynamic cutterheads I have made . Frequency response 20hz till 22khz 96 db 4 ohm. aluminium body , high heat resistance , excellent clear sound.
fitts on a Neumann 320 cutting stylus .
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Ciuens
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45047Unread post Ciuens
Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:05 am

Wtf?

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cuttinglover
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45049Unread post cuttinglover
Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:09 pm

Wat do you mean ?

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aaron
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45058Unread post aaron
Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:01 pm

Do you have video/samples/pricing... ?

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cuttinglover
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45069Unread post cuttinglover
Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:26 pm

https://www.facebook.com/ron.janssen.7393/videos/252596015159126/
https://www.facebook.com/ron.janssen.7393/videos/247090899042971/

I ask 1700 euro for the head , not good ! your get your money back.
Also full support coil repair. .
The coils are brand new , made this head last summer.
If there are more people interesting , I can make more cutterheads.

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MEGAMIKE
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45073Unread post MEGAMIKE
Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:55 pm

hi
can we hear audio please..
the video stops at the end

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Ciuens
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45074Unread post Ciuens
Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:39 pm

I do not want to be offensive, but this cutterhead lacks some fundamental things to function properly.

1- Torque tube
2- connecting rod
3 - To reach the 22khz described, the mass on the move should be much smaller than that seen in the photos.
Just my 2 cents.
Good sales.

Ciuens.

ZEZ Cutter One

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cuttinglover
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45086Unread post cuttinglover
Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:09 pm

Oke let's make a promise , because I work this week I don't have much time .
But at the end of this week saturday or sunday , I will cut a lacquer with a sinus wave on 22khz .
The whole thing I will film realtime , and put It on this forum.

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The Shank
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45087Unread post The Shank
Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:15 pm

cuttinglover wrote:Oke let's make a promise , because I work this week I don't have much time .
But at the end of this week saturday or sunday , I will cut a lacquer with a sinus wave on 22khz .
The whole thing I will film realtime , and put It on this forum.
And of course with the recorded signal directly from the turntable to a DAW, not to the video camera... People don't care here about the
recorded signal on video camera. Tomorrow I can record my son creaming to 22khz on my iphone, everybody won't care.
http://www.myshank.com
skype : steven.myshank

* Diamond cutting stylus officials/prototypes
* Resharpening services
* Blank records
* Cutting lathe

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SueDenim
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45095Unread post SueDenim
Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:52 am

The Shank wrote:Tomorrow I can record my son creaming to 22khz on my iphone, everybody won't care.
Hmm... your son not letting you get much sleep these days huh?
Still, he has a fine pair of lungs/vocal chords if he can hit 22kHz :shock: that might even shatter your iPhone screen if you did attempt to record him!

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The Shank
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45096Unread post The Shank
Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:44 am

That was just a stupîd example :lol:
http://www.myshank.com
skype : steven.myshank

* Diamond cutting stylus officials/prototypes
* Resharpening services
* Blank records
* Cutting lathe

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45147Unread post jesusfwrl
Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:36 am

interesting...

It would help if you could offer some technical specifications of your cutterhead in engineering terms appropriate for the medium.

For instance, what is the 96dB referring to?
Is it related to the frequency response? 20 hz - 22kHz +/-96dB?
Or something different?

At what level was the measurement taken?

What method of measurement did you use? It would be interesting for everyone to have a proper description of the capabilities and limitations of your product in engineering language.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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cuttinglover
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45269Unread post cuttinglover
Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:44 pm

Sorry for this late answer , but let me explaine about 96 DB
It has to do with the sensitivity .
For example 96 db spl is the measurement 1 watt at 1 meter distance (spl is pressure level)
The rule by 3db output you need double power
So 93db needs 2 watt on 1 meter distance and 90db 4 watt on 1 meter distance.
How higher the db on the specs of the coils the less your coils suffer.
The measurement you can do with a simple db meter.
It has nothing to do with the Frequency.
If you are intresting , I can sent you the head with no bennefits so you can test it by your self.
I always want to know what people think , because every day for me is a learning process.

I put a link with the recording and some specs on my website because of the copyrights.
http://www.analoguevinylrecords.com/cutterhead.html

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Gus
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45296Unread post Gus
Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:50 pm

I'm sorry to say this but your cutterhead is a nice D.I.Y try but not for 2000$ :shock:
maybe for 20$ - 50$ is ok.
Always i trust my ears first , without analyzers ,etc. the sound of your cutterhead is very distorted with many resonances

Don't buy it...

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45306Unread post jesusfwrl
Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:04 am

Ron, the sensitivity in dB SPL at 1 meter (usually in an anechoic chamber) for 1W is a measurement useful for loudspeakers. It is entirely irrelevant for cutterheads and the disk medium, since you are presumably trying to displace a cutting stylus, not the surrounding air! Even for loudspeaker driver units, it is not a specification of the coil alone, but of the entire transducer, including the part which couples coil displacement to the desired medium (air), as in a cone, dome, etc. It shows how efficiently the specific transducer can convert electrical power to variations in air pressure. This also partly depends on the mass, mechanical properties, and shape. By constructing a cutterhead, you have modified the transducer, adding mass and changing the shape of the surface which was designed to displace air. Therefore, the sensitivity is no longer the same as what was measured by the manufacturer. Further, for a cutterhead, what matters is what the stylus is doing.
The medium that the coil motion is coupled to has a dramatically different behaviour compared to air!
Therefore, you need different units of measurement and different measurement procedures for a cutterhead, a magnetic tape head and a loudspeaker, even though they are all considered transducers.
You cannot suspend a cutterhead in an anechoic chamber, place a calibrated measurement microphone 1 meter away on axis (which axis?) and expect to get useful measurements regarding its performance in cutting modulated grooves on a disk.

As for testing your cutterhead, I can certainly do that and provide you with a complete engineering report containing all the relevant measurements and data one would expect for a cutterhead. With objective measurements, you can identify areas which would need improvement and refine your product. As this is a time and resource intensive process, there would of course be a charge for it. Please feel free to contact me privately for further details.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45318Unread post EpicenterBryan
Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:09 pm

Ciuens wrote:I do not want to be offensive, but this cutterhead lacks some fundamental things to function properly.
cuttinglover,
The comment by Ciuens is correct. Your design has nearly zero channel separation and that is due to your misunderstanding of the necessary movements. A quick watch of this video will help explain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s62GfJEr6PI .

Also, I wanted to point out that the frequency response curve you posted is not what people want to see. What you posted was the frequency content in the music cut (which also contains the response of the head). Below, you can see what I mean... This plot matches the one you posted and was obtained from your music playback file.

What you really need to do is cut White Noise (either flat and playback flat - no iRiaa or Riaa, or White noise WITH iRiaa encode applied, and WITH Riaa decode on playback) then analyze that. The resulting curve will be for the head which is what a potential buyer will want to see.
music content.jpg
Now, going back to the channel separation. I know you tried to cut a stereo source, but your playback is nearly all mono because the vertical motion (L-R which is the side band in MS encoding) is not moving correctly. That motion should give the difference in the left and right channels.

How do I know you tried to cut a stereo source? I split your playback into MS (mid / side) and applied 40db gain in what should be the vertical component, then converted the MS back to stereo encoding and played it. Although it added lots of noise since there was so little signal in the side band (vertical motion) you can hear that there was some (very little) difference between the right and left channel.

This is what your test cut looks like when converted from Stereo to MS encoding. The top channel represents the Mid (Mono or L+R). The bottom represents the difference or Side (L-R). Notice that the side channel looks like it's zero, but actually does have some difference signal. It's down in the noise floor, but it's there...
stereo to ms.jpg
After splitting the Stereo file to 2 channels and applying 40 db of gain to the side channel, it looks like this:
ms split 40db gain on side.jpg
Then the Split channels need to be converted back to a stereo file. And after converting back from MS to Stereo encoding, it looks like this:
recobine channels.jpg
Now, if you play that resulting file you can actually hear that it was recorded in stereo and although it has lots of noise in it after putting so much gain on the L-R component, it does prove that you tried to cut a stereo source. Your head just isn't working correctly from a mechanical stand point. Just because there are 2 drivers doesn't mean it cuts well in stereo.

I hope that helps.

Bryan
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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45321Unread post EpicenterBryan
Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:38 pm

cuttinglover,
I should also add that it's possible you cut the music in Mono accidentally. If that is the case, what was boosted from the side channel is actually the difference in response between the right and left drivers and when combined back from MS to stereo encoding simulating channel separation. So I think you should check your setup and verify you were actually trying to cut in stereo.

What you should also do is try to determine the channel separation. Record a new stereo test cut. On the test cut, start by driving both channels with the same 1khz signal. Then drive only the right channel with 1Khz, and then only the left channel with 1khz. The three tests should be in the same file and posted together as one file. From the 1khz mono (both channels driven), things like harmonic distortion can be determined. From the right and left only signal the channel separation can be determined.

Bryan

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45323Unread post jesusfwrl
Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:27 am

Brian, do not forget that for meaningful measurements of distortion, channel separation and frequency response, conducted through a reproduction system, the geometric conditions of the reproduction system should match the geometric conditions of the recording system as closely as possible. This is highly unlikely with a cutterhead of this design for a variety of reasons, and as such, most of the measurements will result in considerable errors.
The vertical component you have amplified could well be the result of geometric errors upon reproduction, even if the signal to the head was monophonic. It could also be due to channel imbalance on the head as you have already pointed out, assuming a mono signal to the head. Or both.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45331Unread post EpicenterBryan
Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:27 pm

jesusfwrl wrote:The vertical component you have amplified could well be the result of geometric errors upon reproduction, even if the signal to the head was monophonic.
Hey jesusfwrl, totally agree here.
I thought I would offer that so he could do some testing himself to provide a more useful set of data to a potential buyer. Having it tested independently by someone like you would be ideal but will obviously cost money. Time is money you know.

This design is similar to the one by Angulo from various threads last year. Mechanically, it just can't make the movements necessary for a 45/45 system to cut in stereo. And a stated response from 20hz - 22kHz is absurd without knowing the reference (1khz? ) and the deviation from that point (+/-). I know you understand what I'm talking about, so I'll chime out now...

Bryan

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Snug Music
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Re: Clariophone cutterhead for sale

Post: # 45433Unread post Snug Music
Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:53 pm



Over 1.5K ?? :shock: :mrgreen:

I think this price is totally exaggerated! If I look at the assembly, I can not imagine that works! In mono it may be, but never in stereo, I'm sorry! Sounds hard, but that is the truth! No offense
I'm still not a professional, but I learn pretty fast. especially with my eyes and ears!

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