complete system wanted

[stereophonic]

Greetings. I am a mastering engineer in Portland Oregon. The vast majority of my work is pre-mastering for vinyl. It is now time for me to cut my own lacquers! Please contact me if you have any leads on a VMS-80, VMS-70, VMS-66 and or LS-76. N. America only please. Cash is waiting.
Thank you,
Timothy Stollenwerk
t.stereophonic .at. geemail

[Serif]

Keep in mind that cutting a disc is also, technically, previous to actual mastering. The cut side is used as a disposable mandrel in order to make the metal master by means of electrodeposition. Apollo and Transco call the over-sized, shiny blanks, masters. But analog tape is also called a master whenever it is the first generation of a dub. However, we don't say that we are mastering when recording to tape. Ergo, one shouldn't call disc cutting, mastering, either. Only the metal father is a master. Every other disc is either a pre-master or a post-master (e.g., "mother" positive electroform). Simple. (:


CD premastering should be called, grandfathering. The grandfather is used to create the grandmother. Glass master burning and also lacquer master cutting should be called, grandmothering (she is a mistress, not a master, due to having grooves, rather than ridges, and she is older than the "father."). And the glass or lacquer disc is used to electroform a stamper, hopefully without any plating happening (the first form that is parted being the master/matrix/father)....


- Grandpa


"ALL TRUTH PASSES THROUGH THREE STAGES. FIRST, IT IS RIDICULED, SECOND IT IS VIOLENTLY OPPOSED, AND THIRD, IT IS ACCEPTED AS SELF-EVIDENT" – ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER

[jjgolden]

Did that answer your question Timothy?

[stereophonic]

I normally call what I do mastering. no matter what it's released on. But seeing i'm among the lathe trolls, I can't possibly say vinyl mastering… Even though most my clients call it that when they hire me! I don't care what it's called. I just want a lathe!

[Serif]

...I can't possibly say vinyl mastering… Even though most my clients call it that when they hire me!...

To preclude misunderstandings, I like to be brutally honest about the service (not) on offer. They can call it, mastering, if it feels better to do so, but there is no logical reason to call it anything other than premastering until the appropriate time. The steps of cleaning and spraying and not plating can be taken advisedly, and with discretion and care. It would be sudden to call grandfathering, siring. Alas, superstition abounds, and the ol' psych-out is real, so the poetic potential for similar sounds to annoy precludes precision.

I don't care what it's called. I just want a lathe!

This one.


- Chip Swarf

[stereophonic]

OK. I get excited about this stuff too.

[mossboss]

Well in vinyl manufacture terminology it is all pre-mastering until you grow the first negative from the lacquer which is indeed the master
This first metal part was always placed in the vault after the second electro forming operation on it took place
So here is what one comes across in the various references from days past
The Germans:
Lacquer
Father
Mother
Son
The English:
Lacquer
Master
Mother
Stamper
The Americans:
Lacquer
Master
Mother
Mould
In various plants around the globe they had they own variations as well just so to add another level of confusion
Ie at gZ even to day it is all called pre- mastering until it gets to the plating shop Take a look at Georgez signature,, member here works at GZ
And just to add to the plethora of names already existing
RTI today refers to a the first Metal part as a convert Mmmmmm
Oh here is another one In Jamaica a one step lacquer to first metal part is a "strike" gets better now hey
So I have adopted a simple in my view terminology
First Negative, than a positive, that is kept as a reference, if we are to make another negative from the positive it's a second negative any negative that is formed to go on press we refer to it as a stamper
Plenty of choices than
Personally I have always referred to it as electro forming however having been forced to concede to plating due to common usage of the practice of producing metal work from a lacquer
It is what people understand nowadays, regardless, not that it was better in days past anyway
It is also to be noted that all manufacturers of related equipment referred. to them as Plating and not electro forming so here we are
At the end of the day lets be realistic languages do change over time we have thousand as of examples on that
Any way the man is looking for a cutting system and I am sure he did not want all this
He has adopted the KISS principle and rightfully so,
Is there any one going to help him out?
Cheers

[Steve E.]

I don't know that Stereophonic is WRONG, though, is he? I mean, if he calls what he does "mastering" to his clients, I think he is using some pretty common terminology that they'll understand, yes? We are dealing with so many media now that the term has multiple usages.

[Nickou]

In spain
a master is a digital file you send to the pressing plant ...
so there is here a lot of mastering studio for vinyl records with done protools .. or with sequoia


I worked years ago for a pressing plant in France , end we never used the world master , exept for the laquers
In France we call master the master disk, the disk of acetate.

anyway ,it is not the subject of the topic ..

[Serif]

I don't know that Stereophonic is WRONG, though, is he? I mean, if he calls what he does "mastering" to his clients, I think he is using some pretty common terminology that they'll understand, yes? We are dealing with so many media now that the term has multiple usages.

This is true. He, however unfortunately, did not mis-speak. It is everyone who mis-speaks, which makes each individual exempt from the correction that the group wants. Sort of how, like Labor Unions, the Banyan tree derives its strength from many roots.

Alas, English is not fixed in stone. Like all languages, it de-volves from the Classic to the vulgar. Today's lounge wear is tomorrow's formal wear - wardrobe malfunctions, and all. The 3-piece suit worn by banksters was originally called the businessman's lounge suit, since it didn't have tails and was not very uniform-like.

I just remembered how weird it was when I first realized that making a CD-R was not (yet) mastering. Then how weird it was when I realized that cutting a side wasn't quite mastering, either, since that would mean not only that the recording was not to be played, but that it wasn't really done being mastered until the electrodepositer formed a master from that lady-disk pre-master. Shemale scribblers confess!

(;


Also, the word, master, is quite ugly, historically and sexually, too. Slave and Master are words best kept out of the Art world, iuam. Let's not use these words incorrectly so as to preclude subconsciously being excited by something grotesque, when there is no sensible reason to use these terms before there is need.

Don't master. Cut! But, I won't mind if you take this track and burn the master! hehe

A Nation of Millions... just sayin', Yo.

- Andrew

[Steve E.]

hee hee!

[alein12]

What is a master would tell you what is mastering


Two issues are of particular concern here. Firstly, even unreleased recordings remain the property of the label for the artist's entire career. And secondly, even once the artist has repaid all recording costs, the label will still own the masters. This was one of the reasons why Mick Hucknall decided to part company with Warner Music in early 2000, claiming that his deal was 'immoral'. Warner made approximately £192m from the relationship, and kept all the masters, whereas Mick earned a paltry £20m! Hucknall has since taken control of his destiny, along with a greater share of the profits, releasing music on his self-financed label, simplyred.com.

In rare instances, an artist will secure a reversion of copyright clause, allowing them the return of their masters at a future date. Robbie Williams' ground-breaking 2002 deal with EMI granted him such rights — but then again, how many Robbies are there?

Other rights the label will wish to acquire include rights in the album artwork and the right to use the artist's name and likeness in connection with the sale and promotion of the records.

[stereophonic]

I would love it if all this chatter was on topic. I am still searching for a cutting system. Please contact me with any leads.

[concretecowboy71]

With the passing of Albert Grundy, the market seems a bit tight here in the states.

When I bought my second machine last year I had to find one in Europe and then get the correct parts (motor) to make it plug and play here in the states.

Demand is up, prices are up. I am sure the people that find these things have read your post and will respond if something shakes loose.

It took me 1.5 years to get my first machine, you have to be persistent. It's not like you can buy one at Guitar Center.

Good luck, amd enjoy the journey. I met a lot of interesting people looking for my machine and I will remember that for a long time.

I hope that was on topic!

[gold]

Sending all those lathes to the far east is really coming home to roost. I would like another Neumann. I have a VG66, SX74 and Zuma waiting but I think it will be impossible to find an orphan VMS66 or 70. Even if I could find one I wouldn't pay what they will pay. It's a real dilemma.

[stereophonic]

Thank you. Yes, I am giving up on the idea of a Neumann. As long as I can find a solid lathe, and computer I'll be in good shape.

[gold]

I wouldn't give up. Systems do become available from time to time. One just changed hands a few month ago. There are a bunch in storage too. With prices going up it just might pry a couple of those loose.

I'm talking about finding a lathe only for a reasonable price. I consider a reasonable price 10k-15k depending on condition. You can sell to Korea for 20k and condition doesn't matter that much...

[mossboss]

For $15 k you get a picture of one or a basket case
Need to be lot more for a good one, well not plug and pray, plug and nearly play he he
There where People out there who just picked them up for the asking or paid very little if anything for them so what does that establishes a price?
I would have thought not
Also they got sold to Koreans and Hong Kong people because there was no market for them elsewhere
Most places just wanted them out of the space
So why do people want them today?
I don't think there is some noble issue involved
Who on earth can make $ 400 day? Simple a cutting guy 6- 8 sides a day money in the bank if he is any good with a bit of reputation add another $ 200
People who have been in the game for a couple of years acquire a second in no time
They don't hatch the $$$
And why does every one wants in? Ah
If the market is prepared to pay X $$$ so be it they need to find the loot, believe me sellers are not that attached to them, that's all
So lets be truthful about it rather than lamenting the fact that lathes went to places other than cutting studios which are used for showing off, my dick is bigger than yours style
At least they where saved from the scrap yard
There is no doubt in my mind that they will also part with them sufficient cash being put on the table
Simple
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

A Korean guy here bought seven Neumann lathes and sold then to Korea to be used as record players. I sold him my AM32B for $1,000 about 18-19 years ago because it was taking up space in the garage and I had lost the Westrex 3D-II head! Nobody wanted them (including me). It's a different story now.

Good luck in your search.

[Angus McCarthy]

So what you're saying is an expedition to Korea might be in order?