Edison Flexi-Dictaphone playback

[diamone]

It seems our site owner ran across a bunch of old Edison flexidiscs
from their early-50's take on dictation disc formats and discovered
that playback at 33 was too fast and playback at 16 was too slow.

So in case anybody else is into these formats, I offer the following
short primer of early-50's flexible dictation discs formats that I had
to write several years ago for an archivist buddy of mine when he
was trying to find the appropriate playback tools and digitize them.

As far as I recall - the Edison flexi-dictaphones used the old British
24-RPM talking book mechanisms from the 40's when they launched
in 1953 and then improved upon it the following year with smaller styli
and lighter tracking arms.

I have a couple players and one of the British TB discs - and I also
have several Edison discs of guys dictating letters to guys at other
companies from the same period - and they sound pretty normal at
24 RPM.

But also remember, the speed of those varied quite a bit - especially
the battery-powered ``portable'' versions. There's any number of discs
I find that were recorded at such a low-battery strength that they're
almost 16 RPM.

And remember the stylus used to record it is also not conical or
elliptical or tetrahedral or anything like that. It's a single-sidewall
groove - i.e. vertical on one side of the groove - which is silent -
and then the half-V on the other side of the groove which has the
modulation - the same (or very close) to the Grey Audograph or
AT&T Peatrophone (Ohio Bell) answering machine of the same period.

So if you try and play it with a normal LP stylus it's going to
sound extremely fuzzy if it can even stay in the groove, the
same as the Memovox or the CGS flexidisc dictation systems -
both of which were also center-start and recorded at a
constant linear velocity instead of a constant angular velocity.

And when you try and play a CGS (Reference Recording) or
Memovox disc back - that takes a doorknob-shaped stylus
similar to what a 2-minute cylinder or French Pathe would use -
just the stylus is a little narrower. So - once again - if you
try and play that with a normal LP or 78 conical stylus - it
will sound fuzzy like playing a 78 with an LP stylus.

The only difference between that and the Edison though is
center-start vs outside start, vertical recording vs lateral and
constant linear velocity (IPS on a disc like a CD) vs constant
angular velocity (RPM on a disc like an LP.)

Soundscribers though (with the square holes on the little green
flexidiscs) are true 33 - 1/3 but with vertical modulation - and
also need a doorknob-shaped stylus to play those as well.

In addition - trying to play a CLV analog disc on a standard CAV
player without any sort of automatic speed correction to convert*
from CAV to CLV is not going to result in a very clean or stable transfer.

*(lines per inch divided by the playing surface gives you the
percentage of decrease - the same as on a World Record -
except on a World Record - it's percentage of INcrease instead
of DEcrease because the World Records are outside start the same
as any other 78 9even though - as previously stated - it's still CLV)

The reverse holds true for CAV audiotape recordings made on those
little rim-drive three-inch portable reel-to-reels that guys in Vietnam
or wherever used to send Living Letters home. if you try and play
them on a standard CLV format reel to reel and try to correct digitally
for the pitch adjust - it's ALWAYS going to sound bad.

Just like that one disc they restored off a printed image in a magazine -
http://mediapreservation.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/extracting-audio-from-pictures
reduced to fit the page. They spent all this time to cut it all apart
and make lines out of it and then ran millions of calculations to discern
the linear speed of each revolution and just on and on and on.

And the result was terrible, til they got a brain in their head and ran
a photo-negative of it and played it through a clear turntable with a
light and a photocell as if it were an Optagon organ disc from the 70's.

And then the other way you can transfer the Edison - or any other - disc
is take a picture of it and play it back through the Virtual Turntable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw9jfX4Ykxw

[recordboy]

Thank you very much for this info!

-cheers

[diamone]

So how many Edison Voicewriter discs do you have exactly?
Is it enough to warrant buying a player off eBay - working or not - and sending it in to one of the dictation-archive specialty houses in order to get restored and have a new stylus made?

I'm sure if you did that - you'd get close to if not more than the repair bill back for it once you sold it anew to somebody else doing the same thing - because a lot of people are unearthing a lot of stuff from the 40s and 50s now that all these World War II and Korean War veterans are having to downsize and go into nursing homes.

[recordboy]

I've now two machines -one with NO cords -which I got first and tried to find info on how to make it run [schematics -or- diagram -or- photofact] -yet couldn't (seems nobody knows a thing about these -or is just holding their tongue for some reason. These Edison disc recorders fascinate me greatly and I want to know them inside and out -yet I guess I'll have to do LOTS of work -since I've not heard from anybody in ANY forum -who knows even which pin connects to the power).

So I now have in the mail to me -another with power -cable and mic -which powers up... The one that is coming has 3 discs -so I am excited too listen... My plan for these machines -is recording eerie sound collages (which I make) -and then because of what they are -they should add some extra spooky old sound to the recordings...

I love pops and crunch -I really do...

I would love to find a loot of old home & office recordings for sure -I'm a cutter of the tape kind [Musique concrète] -and now want to make records of my tape cuts -and record from old records onto tape and cut them -and then re-record back onto records/flexis...

[diamone]

I've now two machines -one with NO cords -which I got first and tried to find info on how to make it run [schematics -or- diagram -or- photofact] -yet couldn't (seems nobody knows a thing about these -or is just holding their tongue for some reason.

I think there's a couple guys on either the Vintage Bell Labs or else on the Grey Audograph or Frank Bieber/CGS or Soundscriber or Dictabelt etc forums. I haven't been on there in years except to tell them what I told you and get them to start talking to each other being they are all pretty much doing the same thing with pretty much the same media - but you might try on there and see how you do.

It's the same crowd that deals with Tefifon type German phono-tape media and the Fairchild aluminum disc embossers of the `30's that had no swarf left when you recorded on them, hence nothing for the cutterhead to trip over and other similar media like that.

Just remember - the stylus on any kind of machine like that is going to be considerably worn out by the time you get it working after 60 years of laying around - and is going to require being sent in for re-tipping TO SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS THE FORMAT AND SPECS - otherwise A) you won't be able to record on fresh discs if you can find them, and B) when you play back existing discs, you'll destroy them.

Also beware of discs that are not 100% flat and flexible without being brittle or chip off. if you intend on using them for recording, I would see whether or not the new disc project ever got off the ground from a few years ago. These same guys from the resin-based disc and embosser-stylus production field sections on the 50's dictation media forums were talking about banding together and getting a new run of discs made for all of the above-mentioned formats so they ALL could have new material upon which to record - but I lost track of those guys after I got into ``serious'' production and media transfer.

So, research that see how you do with those guys.

[recordboy]

[/quote]I think there's a couple guys on either the Vintage Bell Labs or else on the Grey Audograph or Frank Bieber/CGS or Soundscriber or Dictabelt etc forums.[/quote]

Thanx for the info... I will for sure have to find those and join... I just missed out on a Grey Audograph -and am pretty bummed... Think it sold for $9.99

Where -or who would I send such a machine to -as to be restored? I searched "Edison Voicewriter" for days looking for any info and never came across anything. I guess I could try a new search...

I wasn't planning on playing any disc in the machine. I was planning on using a turntable -and recording it digitally -and then changing the speed in audacity. That's where your 24rpm tip came in handy. As I couldn't find any answers elsewhere in the forums I do belong to.

Also to convert my material to be recorded on the machine before recording it -so that it then could be played back at 33-or 45 and sound normal. -or rather as I intended XD

I did order some flexi disc -when I got my first machine. Don't know if they are from the guys you mentioned -yet the do look BRAND NEW. I am planning to use them with my Wilcox-Gay Recordio and Recordette too...

[diamone]

Thanx for the info... I will for sure have to find those and join...
I just missed out on a Grey Audograph -and am pretty bummed... Think it sold for $9.99
Where - or who - would I send such a machine to - as to be restored?
I searched "Edison Voicewriter" for days looking for any info and never came across anything.
I guess I could try a new search...

Like I said - any one of the above-mentioned forums - or the AntiqueRadio.com guys should be able to help you with schematics - and/or finding a QUALIFIED repair specialist to repair it. Not going to be cheap though.

I was planning on using a turntable - and recording it digitally - and then changing the speed in audacity.

BZZZT. wrong answer. Thanks for playing. Even speeding UP the disc in a digital audio workstation when playing it at 16 on a commercial turntable will have three main problems and a whole host of other issues:

1. The stylus size and shape being nonstandard as described above.
2. The shallowness of the groove being played necessitating...
3. A playback head outside the machine being mounted on a lead screw
with the correct lines-per-inch (as a cylinder player might have)

Nevermind all the digital artifacting from the speedup pr (worse) slowdown process in DAW.

The only way you could get away with that was, if you HAD to do that - better to play it at 33 or 16 WITH THE CORRECT STYLUS AND LEAD SCREW on a normal turntable - record onto a reel-to-reel continuously-variable turntable (Lenco 75 et al) and record it at 7-1/2 or 15 on a 2-track reel to reel with varispeed - and then servo THAT up or down as you transfer back down into the computer.

Or the reverse - calculate how far ABOVE or BELOW the standard speed you want to play back - then record with the varispeed activated to the new IPS speed - and then play it back at the normal 7-1/2 or 15 IPS so that anybody else could play the reel at the normal speed.

The other way is on a a continuously-variable turntable (Lenco 75 et al) - choose the correct speed and then record normally into the computer - that way there's no artifacts.

That's where your 24rpm tip came in handy. As I couldn't find any answers elsewhere in the forums I do belong to. Also to convert my material to be recorded on the machine before recording it - so that it then could be played back at 33-or 45 and sound normal. - or rather as I intended XD

See above under `stylus size and shape'. Nobody else would ever be able to play it.

I did order some flexi disc -when I got my first machine. Don't know if they are from the guys you mentioned -yet the do look BRAND NEW.

Better test one to be sure that it's not all dried out.

I am planning to use them with my Wilcox-Gay Recordio and Recordette too...

Better watch out with thouse though, Any kind of ``normal'' home lathe (Webcor, Wicox, etc) will have a couple DIFFERENT problems:

1. Disc is too thin - the necessary recording head weight on any of those will just tear right through the six-or-twelve-mil thickness of the flexidisc.

2. They were built to EMBOSS upon and NOT cut into. Meaning some old Fairchild embosser designed for the solid-aluminum/uncoated disc machines from the 30's might do well on those.

You may come across a situation like on a Soundscriber disc (sea-foam green with a square hole) where you CAN'T cut them on a lathe because the heat generated from a normal lathe cut due to the friction of the stylus scraping across the resin material from which it is made may cause the thread/swarf to end up as a gooey mass rather than being able to be cleanly removed from the cut as on a fiber or metal-based lacquer would be.

So do your research and keep us posted.

[diamone]

Ran out of editing time. Grrr.
All the other boards I belong to - posts can be edited and/or deleted indefinitely.
I've updated old posts YEARS later with new information and it takes just fine.

Anyway - back to transferring dictation-disc formats.

The worst offenders are the CLV (constant-linear-velocity) versions of formats that are supposed to be CAV (constant-angular-velocity) and vice-versa.

Meaning if somebody spent the money and had the right stylus made for a Grey Audograph disc for example (it's a disc, but the speed is measured in IPS like tape because each revolution is a different speed) and was trying to play it on a normal turntable and then correct for the speed slope in a DAW - (either playing it at 16 and sloping it up across time or worse - playing it at 33 and sloping it down over time) - take it from me. I've been doing this kind of thing nigh onto 30 years now - and I always come back to either the original player or a properly-modified modern version.

In the case of the Audograph - I had a second Lenco 75 drive mechanism I mounted on a lead screw ABOVE the platter and had the vertically-mounted idler wheel touch the disc a quarter-revolution behind the stylus, since I couldn't mount it at the same POINT as on the original unit.

Depending on if you mount the drive one revolution behind or one revolution ahead of the program (you can't mount it on the same revolution - it won't track properly even with the playback stylus mounted on the same lead screw as the drive like on a cylinder) will tell you if your entire program is going to be a little slow (preferred) or a little fast.

But since the slowness or fastness of the program is going to be the SAME throughout the program - then THAT is going to be a WHOLE lot easier to correct for in a DAW with the fewest artifacts - especially if you mount the drive so it renders the whole program a little slow.

Picking UP the pitch and tempo of a piece simultaneously is going to sound LOADS better than trying to DROP the pitch and tempo - even if it's only by a single tone, semitone or a few cents of a semitone simply because removing samples that are already there and intrapolating around it is considerably better than trying to invent what's not there by extrapolating samples that don't exist - and then intrapolating around THAT.

Now that process works equally well on a CGS/Reference Recorder (Frank Bieber lathe) or a Memovox which used different versions of the same system, different linear speeds, different stylus types and different groove pitches in order to emboss THEIR discs.

So you research all that, drag out your trusty old Lenco 75 and proceed to amaze your friends.

An inbetween way is to take the drive off of an old CED SelectaVision video player and modify the drive of a NON Lenco-type turntable so that the speed decreases a certain amount after every revolution like a CD does. But I think you'd still need the drive mechanism of a Lenco 75 to even do it on a normal turntable the right way.

The cheap and dirty way is to start off at the higher speed and stand there moving the speed lever on the L-75 down every revolution for the 30 minutes or an hour program length - have two or three takes of that whole process - and then edit the best bits together from the different takes in your DAW for best final results.

Now the reverse is just as bad - tape formats that are measured in RPM like a disc - but they're a reel of tape. Eventually, rim-drive tapes need rim-drive players on which to play them, unless you plan on sitting there again for a half-hour or hour program on a varispeed reel to reel with your math handy, gradually decreasing the speed by hand.

No such commercial player will take the 3-inch or 4-inch reels from which CAV tapes are played without stretching or breaking the tape due to the high tension thereon - even at the lowest setting - so that means you have to wind the tape onto a 5-inch or 7-inch NAB-hub reel (with the large plastic area surrounding the hub, - unlike a normal reel to reel only allowing for about 2/3rds of the usual capacity of tape - used frequently on pre-recorded reel-tapes) and calculate

A. the inches over original revolutions or vice versa,
B. the inner and outer diameters of the recording (works equally well on CLV disc or CAV tape)
C. the number of the revolution in question from the beginning of the recording
D. the lines per inch of tape thickness or groove pitch (so you can calculate the IPS or RPM of each revolution.
E. divided by the RPM (tape) or (in reverse) IPS (disc) of the original recording.

And then proceed with your number of takes recording into the computer and your editing the best sections thereof into your final product.

None of this is applicable to CAV disc formats like the Voicewriter or CLV tape formats like the capstan-drive Living Letters tapes though. Those you just find the right stylus or track configuration, play the disc on a turntable or tape deck capable of reproducing the original speed faithfully and constantly and proceed to record into the computer.

[recordboy]

WOW, So much info and GREAT!!!

I am a poor young man with no high tech equipment etc. or tech. knowledge, Yet I think I understand what you are saying, Correct me if I am wrong please. You are saying that these machines when running, slow down a bit as they emboss, leading to the center, so that the pitch etc. would sound a bit weird if played back at a constant speed? So I would have to calculate this pre-recording in order to have it come out the way I intended? And that there is no way to play these disc made on these Edisons using a standard turntable? I say a demo on youtube that played a disc made on an Edison -and other than the speed, and having to nudge it to start (wouldn't lead in properly), it seems to play quite well, which is what made me buy the first one in the first place. Here's a link

He is using the same exact model that I have two of.

Yet do you think it is possible to change the cutting head on this machine so that it would play back on a standard turntable? Like one made for a Wilcox etc.

By the way the discs I bought are super fresh and not dry. I did try one out on my recordette and it didn't cut through, Yet I've still the old head on it, so it is for sure a bit dull.

I will keep trying, and updating as I go, and thank you for all the info you've given, and welcome any more you too...

-Cheers

[diamone]

WOW, So much info and GREAT!!!
I am a poor young man with no high tech equipment etc. or tech. knowledge,
Yet I think I understand what you are saying
Correct me if I am wrong please.
You are saying that these machines when running, slow down a bit as they emboss, leading to the center, so that the pitch etc. would sound a bit weird if played back at a constant speed?

A) only on the CLV disc formats when played back on CAV equipment - NOT the Edison which is CAV like an LP and
B) it's the reverse - the recording starts in the center at a faster angular speed and ends up nearest the edge at a slower angular speed like a CD.

So I would have to calculate this pre-recording in order to have it come out the way I intended?

Only for CLV disc recordings (Audograph, Memovox, Reference Recordings) attempting to be mastered or played back on CAV equipment (a turntable) or vice versa. NOT for Voicewriter discs which are CAV like an LP.

And looking at my old calculations, it's actually the inner and outer CIRCUMFERENCE of the recording NOT the inner and outer DIAMETER in conjunction with the lines-per-inch that would provide the precise speed when converting from CAV to CLV and vice versa.

But I'd have your advanced-math professors check it out as well anyway before you went too far into your calculations so you don't end up doing it backwards or inside-out. Cuz other kids are starting to ask me questions like that and I'd just as soon have a chart I can clone and send out.

It's the same calculations that you have to make when you're trying to find out the amount of recording time on a disc when you know the IC, OC, LPI and RPM of a CAV disc recording or the IC OC, LPI and IPS of a CLV disc recording (and vice versa for tape).

In the case of a CLV disc recording and CAV disc recordings made prior to the late 60's, a fixed-groove pitch is assumed. If you're using variable-pitch you have to account for the variance of less time during loud passages and more time during quiet passages, so you have to perform THOSE percentage calculations and THEN average THAT out to get a close approximation of the recording time on your disc.

And when recording in stereo vs mono don't forget to incorporate THAT math when factoring out your recording time on the disc because the stereo time - assuming the same fidelity is desired - is a certain fraction of the same recording time for an identical monaural recording.

And, THAT'S a different percentage from the time calculations for a strictly-VERTICAL monaural recording (like on a Soundscriber) over a strictly LATERAL recording (like on a Voicewriter).

If I recall correctly, this means the OC divided by IC cos LPI (tape thickness on reels and groove pitch for discs) equals the speed slope INCREASE and the reverse calculation (IC divided by OC tan LPI) gives you the percent of DECREASE (in case you're trying to play - say- a World Records CLV ``78'' from the 40's (which really isn't a 78).

And that there is no way to play these disc made on these Edisons using a standard turntable?

Well the extensive work to do so in order to get an acceptable result is as I stated above. Much easier to source a pre-modified piece of gear or barter with a guy to get one done.

I saw a demo on youtube that played a disc made on an Edison -and other than the speed, and having to nudge it to start (wouldn't lead in properly), it seems to play quite well, which is what made me buy the first one in the first place.

Once again - the stylus is NOT an LP stylus - or even a 0.5 mil Talking Book stylus for recordings made for the blind - nor is it a quarter-mil stylus used for the Highway Hi Fi series of 7-inch mono (lateral) 16-RPM discs made for the `56 Chrysler.

If my recollections are correct, it's around a third-of-a-mil, maybe half-that of the 0.7 mil stereo stylus - so - the quarter-mil is too small and the half-mil is too big. Playing the Edison disc with a stereo LP stylus - even the elliptical and NSSHE/Quadahedral (CD-4) type will destroy it on the first play just as sure as playing a stereo LP with a 78 stylus will.

But THAT doesn't account for the fact that - like an Audograph stylus - the groove is only HALF a V instead of a WHOLE V. So even if you THOUGHT you could get away with using a CD-4 stylus on it since the width gradually increases up the sides - that wouldn't solve your problem of having a 90-degree groove wall on one side and a 45-degree wall on the other. You'd have to slice that CD-4 stylus in half from left to right JUST to get it to fit in the groove without destroying it.

If THAT were not enough, remember I said that the grooves in the Edison disc are only about 20 microns deep. DMM recordings cut directly on copper in the 80's were 50-60 and some of THEM have trouble staying in the groove EVEN ON AN AUDIOPHILE TURNTABLE WITH THE QUADRAHEDRAL STYLUS - and NORMAL 45's and LP's are anywhere between 80-120 deep depending on how hot the cut is. 45's in the 60's made to be played on those od brutes of a radio station gates turntable can be upwards of 140.

Now look at your little puny 10 or 20 micron cut on an Edison and wonder why an LP stylus won't even stay in the groove.

Yet do you think it is possible to change the cutting head on this machine so that it would play back on a standard turntable? Like one made for a Wilcox etc.

I can't remember now if the head in there is piezo, crystal or magnetic. But if a normal Presto or Neumann or Westrex or whatever stylus will physically fit in there - the other problem I see is the fixed-pitch lead screw driving the cutter head across the disc.

The one it has in there now is presumably built to emboss an hour-per-side's worth of a 10-20 micron third-of-a-mil single-sidewall groove at roughly 24-RPM. Putting a larger cutting stylus in - or a different head entirely - would require

A) matching the head to the internal electronics
B) replacing the lead screw to coincide with the new head and stylus
C) creating a vacuum system to remove the swarf or staying with embossing heads
D) taking your chances trying to cut a deeper groove.

By the way the discs I bought are super fresh and not dry.

So you might've got lucky then.

I did try one out on my recordette but it didn't cut through, Yet I've still the old head on it, so it is for sure a bit dull.

Or the material from which the resin-based disc is made - as stated above - is simply unfit for anything other than the type of embossing for which it was designed.

And then if you DO manage to cut into it with a new stylus and etc, THEN you have to worry about the flammability of the resin and whether the friction of cutting it is going to turn the resulting thread/swarf into a mass of goo.

Remember, lacquers are formulated specifically so that the swarf will NOT turn to goo and BE capable of being easily removed by either a soft brush or a vacuum system. As the resin from the Voicewriter discs - the same as those for the Soundscriber, Audograph, Memovox and Reference embossers - had no such restrictions on their formulations because nobody was ever expected to be cutting onto them with a lathe.

I will keep trying, and updating as I go, and thank you for all the info you've given, and welcome any more you too...

Brain fried yet?

I would not be just a nuffin'
My head all full of stuffin'
My heart all full of pain
I would dance and be merry
Life would be a ding-a-derry
If I only had a brain

[recordboy]

pretty much fried yes XP

I'm grasping some it though indeed. I'll read it over and over again though too...

-Cheers

[diamone]

...XP...

Bloody well better not be. Antiquated operating system.
Support is ending in March. Fancy coming into the New Millenium do you?

This record has been produced in Glorious Quadraphonic Sound.
Can also be played on stereo or mono-equipment with a lightweight tonearm at a pinch.

However this record cannot be played on old tin boxes no matter what they are fitted with.
If you are in possession of such equipment please hand it into the nearest constabulary..

[recordboy]

Just got 2nd machine, which has power cable and mic controller. I 1st tried out the one I had already, to see if it even powered up, and it did -yet mic wasn't seeming to work. So I thought , okay the mic doesn't work, yet I'd have an idea of what wires led to which pins etc.. Then I hooked up the second machine and got it running, yet the head doesn't seem to track/move across the record (also the head can be moved manually with a knob, yet it seems to be disconnected) yet turns out the mic does work on this machine. One thing that is confusing is these two machines are both vpd3's yet look a bit different, so I need to look at the wires in both and figure if the first machines wires differ, and if so, which would be the mic input, because other than the mic not activating the light (maybe light is just dead too?) it does track and run as it should (maybe a bit slow idk, could use some more tlc). I am also going to take the heads out and check them to see what condition they are in...

I am excited!!!

[diamone]

One thing that is confusing is these two machines are both vpd3's yet look a bit different.

Are there any mumbers or letters in the suffix after the model number? or a notation of the year in which they were made? You could have - say - a `53 model VPD-3 and a `55 model VPD-3 for example.

So I need to look at the wires in both and figure if the first machines wires differ, and if so, which would be the mic input, because other than the mic not activating the light (maybe light is just dead too?) it does track and run as it should (maybe a bit slow idk, could use some more tlc). I am also going to take the heads out and check them to see what condition they are in...

FYI they DID make Voicewriter test discs for the bench tech to make sure the speed and tracking were correct. Try and find one though. it's almost as bad as trying to find a Reference Model voicewriter (or Grey Audograph or Memovox or....).

The lead screw may need a good cleaning and a little LIGHT grease, you might need to check if the stylus tracking the lead screw is intact and clean, you may have to send the rubber idlers out for rebuilding and you may need to get a new drive belt for it.

But I would still continue doing the research - maybe through the AES whitepapers of the early 50's or do a patent search and see if you can come up with the EXACT speed and groove configuration that way. it's how I came up with it for the Grey Audograph and the CGS/Bieber specs.

File attachment: XP animation.

Well that describes most everybody's feeling about the OS as well.

[recordboy]

I did notice the print year inside the cover -with three new pat. #'s on the newer one. The later one which was the first one I got is from 55 and the one I just got is from 58 -and there are noticable differences inside also. The wires leading to the mic/foot pedal/ accessory panel does differ. too...

The one I just got did come with a disc which had a li'l something recorded on it, and it played at the speed it was recorded, very clear and crisp. Unfortunately it was nothing very special, just someone testing the machine after they had replaced the drive belt, testing the machines playback etc..

The other unfortunate thing is that when I first plugged the machine in and tried the mic (before I got the platter turning, and cleaned) the rec light seemed to be working fine, yet after getting everything running, and trying to record, the light seems to stay on, as if it is getting a signal already. Tried to record, and it comes out very quiet, yet with lots of noise. Still though the disc which came with it play loud and clear, so it's not the mic/speaker which confuses me.

These things are very complex inside, and figuring out how to oil them, and remove parts for cleaning etc. is a HUGE challenge.

There must be info out there somewhere, a book etc., just going to take some time I guess.

the pat. search is something I for sure will do...

[recordboy]

I had to put this project aside for a spell, yet am looking to try my hands at it again.

Thanx again for this wealth ov info diamone...