Uncharted recording plastics and plastic forming

[Bahndahn]

Is anyone experimenting with previously undocumented plastics?

Accounts of polycarbonate, polyvinyl-chloride [PVC, in a few incarnations via additives], acrylic, nitrocellulose lacquer, acetate flexi sheets, and plastic food-plates are common amongst this forum.

I have recently cut some blanks from an IKEA "Lobbo" lamp shade and it seems like it will emboss very well.

In my search I have found Vivek [PETG] to be a potentially suitable plastic but I have not tried it. It's slightly more expensive than polycarbonate but it's generally available in a number of nice transparent colours.

Has anyone tried PLA or ABS? A disk could be 3D printed and solvent vapour-smoothed to a fine gloss to be cut or embossed.
A designated 'disk printer' could be made quite easily.

ABS sheets are commonly available from the average plastic distributers etc.

Has anyone tried 'erasing' old PVC records with tetrahydrofuran? I'm thinking it may work - depending on additives in the PVC.

What else have you tried or considered?

[opcode66]

3d printing a blank would probably be a bad idea. There are minor inconsistencies to the plastic in spools (they make it as cheaply as possible). Little bubbles sometimes form within the print that would affect the resulting cut. PLA is waaaaaaayyyyyyyy tooooooo hard to cut. You would be blowing through styli very quickly. Finally, printing completely solid objects is very difficult. Typically, the inside of a model is filled in with a pattern (hexagonal for instance). When you print with 100% you run a big risk of warping. That would obviously be a big issue. Finally, it would take about an hour or more to print one 12" disc. With a tabletop CNC machine you can purchase for as little as $600 you can take squares of plastic and route your own discs that way. Much easier than trying to 3d print. 100% better results.

If you are talking about 3d printing a record with grooves and smoothing the resulting print, I think that would remove a lot of high end data. Or, at the very least add distortion. The resolution just isn't there for 3d printing. Also, since it deposits in layers, and you would be printing the disc flat, the layers (striations) run perpendicular to the groove wall. And, since the layers are not completely level flat, there would be a wavey stepped line running the entire length of the concentric groove. That will cause a lot of background noise. Which is why 3d printed records are a novelty. They will never sound good enough to willingly listen to. At least not by my standards. 3d printing a cutterhead is a far better approach.

PETG is good. PVC is hard to source in the correct sheet configurations 0.06" with protective covers on both sides. Acrylic chips oddly when cutting. Lacquers are a defacto standard. When cut with a fresh stylus, nearly zero background noise. Polycarbonate is relatively easy to source, shape and cut. I wish it were a little less hard though.

Ultimately, it would be ideal for a lot of us to pool resources and have a special formulation made and extruded into sheets for cnc'ing. A plastic blank co-op.

[Bahndahn]

I definitely didn't mean printing the groves for playback, just a disk to be used with the cutting lathe. It certainly would take quite a while on a conventional 3D printer but if the technique had merit, a sort of 'printing lathe' could be constructed that could have a custom extruder that could move on a single axis while a spinning print platter could receive the deposited melted plastic. I came across polycarbonate filaments - this idea spawned from that. The nozzle would leave streaks, so smoothing would be necessary. Warping is an issue, but not an abolishing one if the right measures were taken.

This is only an experimental idea, and it doesn't offer great cost benefits or anything however unique colour combinations could be obtained.

Any thoughts on cutting or embossing PLA with a highly heated stylus? Any thoughts on ABS blanks from sheets?

Are there any resins that harden to a cuttable softness/texture?

A lathetrolls blank co-op is an awesome idea! Shipping is a bitch, but the costs could be lowered via co-op that its plausible.

[opcode66]

Discs can be cut and shipped from several centralized locations. Most towns have a cnc shop...

PLA is way too stiff. I wouldn't even risk a diamond stylus to find out if it is cuttable. Really dont think so. No experience with ABS. It smells fucking horrible.

[studiorp]

Yes, I had thought to cut on Abs blanks, and I had opened a post time ago, but here nobody seems be interested to this material.
Why Abs ? Because seems that the sound properties are good. If you put the stylus (while the head play) on a Abs remote control of a television for example, you will hear a very good sound for me.. I know, this thing can be crazy, but try ! This forum is born for experimenters !

[opcode66]

If you want to donate at lease half the price of a stylus I'd be happy to try this. I can print an ABS 7" for testing.

[opcode66]

Well, this should put a smile on your face... I'm at least willing to try printing a 100% Infill 6" blank. I can't do 7" with my printer...

Let's see what happens. I can find a chipped diamond stylus to attempt to cut the blank. That way I risk nothing. Results won't be pretty. But, I will now if it is possible to cut a blank created this way.

6 Inch Blank.png

[opcode66]

FYI, this is looking like 3 hours of print time for one 6" blank... That is a lot of time.

[dimi751]

I feel sorry for the diamond it's gonna be a rough ride.

[opcode66]

It will be a customer exchange diamond with a chipped tip. I'm not using a fresh one to determine the viability of this idea.

[Bahndahn]

Well, this should put a smile on your face... I'm at least willing to try printing a 100% Infill 6" blank. I can't do 7" with my printer...

Let's see what happens. I can find a chipped diamond stylus to attempt to cut the blank. That way I risk nothing. Results won't be pretty. But, I will now if it is possible to cut a blank created this way.

Nice!!!! This is awesome.

If you are worried about warping, you can spray some hairspray on your printbed's tape for extra adhesion. Have some acetone on hand to smooth once that print is done before cutting. If you emboss at all, testing that could be useful too. But as far as I know, that would require you to modify your setup or the shank or something.

Keep us posted!

[opcode66]

What exactly would be your method for smoothing? I don't think it matters much. I'm cutting into the surface.

[Bahndahn]

Some people like to 'smooth' out all of the layer lines and extruder traces typically by vaporizing the materials' solvent and hanging the part in the vapour [in a chamber]. This is done safely with a hotplate or rice-cooker to avoid the presence of an open flame.

A small amount of solvent [acetone for ABS, tetrahydrofuran for PLA or PVC] is poured into the base of a pot that has a lid. The 3D printed part is hung on a wire from the bottom of the lid such that it will not touch the bottom of the pot when put on it. The lid goes on the pot with the part hanging and the hotplate is turned on to vaporize [or 'steam'] the solvent. It makes even contact with the part that way and after some time in this vapour, the part comes out with a glossy, print-evidence-free finish. There are some pictures here: https://www.google.ca/search?q=vapour+smoothed+print&biw=1469&bih=889&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI3NiumIb9xgIVSW0eCh0mxwkA

[opcode66]

Well, that is not possible for me. But I will try cutting it regardless. What you are referring to is primarily used to smooth the layering effect. That is, the visible layers that are formed in a stack to create a part. On this print, those lines will run along the edge of the disc, which is not the part that will be cut. The top and bottom will be relatively flatish. More so than the sides. Not sure if the vapor would do what you want. But, I can't setup for that anyway. So, moving forward.

While printing a disc, I ran out of filament. It was an unattended print. So, I have to start it over again. It looks bad. Worse than it will when printed correctly. However, I got what is very close to a flexidisc. Which is interesting....

[Bahndahn]

Looking good!

Yeah the vapour smoothing is a bit of a setup. I'm pretty sure that you could hand-polish it with some acetone [possibly diluted] if you have some lying around. Anyway, i'm certainly glad you are trying this. Looking forward to test results.

[tragwag]

definitely intrested in this discussion, as I'm currently cutting my own blanks on a community "hackerspace" CNC here in Connecticut.
I almost have enough stock to sell to the troll community, though I often get rush orders in and they take precedence.

the cost of PETG is a bit more for sure, but it is softer than polycarbonate.
I haven't found the cutting to be that much better in terms of quiet groove, but chip pickup is a little easier.

[opcode66]

Either way, this experiment will only prove the viability of the plastic itself. I don't think 3d printing a blank is a good idea at all. There will be textures withing the plastic disc that wouldn't exist if it were roller extruded. That is very important for record cutting. How homogenous the material is under the surface will determine how it cuts and what the resulting groove walls will look like.

The final disc I printed successfully today is very very very hard. It is a lot harder than pressed vinyl it seems.

[The_House_Records]

Did you try cutting on it, or was it not even worth it?

[alexdow]

The printed SLA disc looks good on the one hand, but when listening to it, the surface of the player produces a rhythmic sound like a siren, this is caused by the growth of the paste through the illumination of the matrix with a finite resolution