Pressing Shellac Records?

[mossboss]

I am glad you can now appreciate the issues as well as the difficulties one has to overcome so as to make these things
It is not a as easy as it sounds but don't despair you just never know
Best

[mischmerz]

I am glad you can now appreciate the issues as well as the difficulties one has to overcome so as to make these things
It is not a as easy as it sounds but don't despair you just never know
Best

Oh .. I was able to appreciate the challenges before. It's just - I live in America. And I believe that if there's a market, there's a product. And I know that Shellac aficionados routinely pay 10, 20 or (even way) more bucks or more for a single record. Even if the production would cost 2 or three times the price of a vinyl record, it would still make sense.

But Shellac might not the way to go. I am now investigating the possibility to create a special vinyl blend containing hardeners that is able to withstand the tortures of a mechanical device better. We'll see

Michaela

[martin-esq]

I assume you've seen: http://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?p=15747#p15747 & http://www.smooth-on.com/gallery.php?galleryid=157 ? Do keep us updated, I'm very interested in this topic as well.

[mossboss]

I am not so sure that any hardeners to be added to any PVC compound will take the punishment, Regardless one has to pursue all avenues
Another point
Someone here has said that abrasive additives where used so as to sharpen the stylus
That is not quite correct
A common filler was powdered slate very very fine, which no doubt served the purpose
Gum Arabic Shellac some natural Resins as well as raw rubber and a few other micro ingredients were also added
Any way,
As pointed out there no issue in doing the pressing, even getting the compound blended in the minimum qty required
So far no one wants to carry the initial cost of the material,
Besides the pain to get all the stuff gathered and deliver to the blenders,
I can say that expecting the plant to fork out the cost's for an amount of compound that may never ever be used again after a few hundred or even 1000 pressings its a big ask
Despite the fact that 78 aficionados fork out 10 and 20 bucks or more each, the plant will never see that kind of money, may be lucky to get $2-2.50 per pressing and people whinge at that
Thats the hard reality on this matter
The point is, until someone puts their hands up to carry these cost's, well, it looks like it will stay exactly where it is on the shelf. Simple
Best

[jesusfwrl]

I have also been very much interested in this subject. I have a very old Garrard hand cranker which still works perfectly well and we also have frequent power cuts ...

I have experimented with cutting records into different materials and then trying to play them back on the Garrard but none of it works. Polycarbonate was my first try. What happens is that it plays for a few second after lowering the needle on the record at a continuously slowing down speed until it grinds to a halt under the weight of the tonearm, which is a bit over 150g. I use less than that when embossing polycarbonate, but this is not the only issue here. The turntable keeps on spinning but the needle starts embossing into the record until the record is standing still and slipping on the turntable. Obviously, this material is too soft.

I think Chris is right in that hardeners on vinyl will probably not be able to do the trick. I am not sure if there really is a reasonable alternative to Shellac for such machines. The other idea I've had was modifying such machines with a spring added to reduce the weight of the needle on the record. From a commercial standpoint, this doesn't make much sense though since I am not sure how many owners of such machines would be willing to modify their machines to be able to play non-shellac records.

So for the time being, the easiest solution would be to find someone willing to invest in a series of albums, lets say 20 titles, with a pressing volume of 1000 units per title, and willing to pay for this upfront. Or, someone with the equipment in their garage willing to experiment a lot and willing to pay for the cost of such experiments.

[mischmerz]

Despite the fact that 78 aficionados fork out 10 and 20 bucks or more each, the plant will never see that kind of money, may be lucky to get $2-2.50 per pressing and people whinge at that
Thats the hard reality on this matter
The point is, until someone puts their hands up to carry these cost's, well, it looks like it will stay exactly where it is on the shelf. Simple
Best

I would be willing to pay 2,50 per record. Maybe even 3 bucks. For a volume of 1000 records. Any takers?

Michaela

[tragwag]

not sure if this adds to the discussion at all, but the person who made this video contacted me about cutting masters at some point.
In the video they copied an existing 78, but with their own material hard enough to play back with a steel needle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HptDnjEk4BE

[mischmerz]

not sure if this adds to the discussion at all, but the person who made this video contacted me about cutting masters at some point.
In the video they copied an existing 78, but with their own material hard enough to play back with a steel needle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HptDnjEk4BE

Do you have any more information about the mixture or how to get in touch with them?

m.

[mossboss]

This is more interesting Same Guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbUKQZpnbrU
Best

[mischmerz]

This is more interesting Same Guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbUKQZpnbrU
Best

Very cool. Thanks for sharing. Does anybody have an idea what kind of stuff that is?

m.

[mossboss]

Down the comments when the question was put to him he suggest that you look up the definition of "secret"
Would be certainly of interest to you as well as some others here
Best

[mischmerz]

Down the comments when the question was put to him he suggest that you look up the definition of "secret"
Would be certainly of interest to you as well as some others here
Best

Yeah - I read that. But there's so much combined knowledge here - I thought that maybe somebody has an idea. Maybe he put fibers or other materials into the vinyl mix. If you listen closely, there is quite some surface noise audible.

mm.

[mossboss]

From a commercial point of viw this is nuts not viable
Hobby wise there is no issue time is of no consequence
It takes $$ to put the key in the door every day in any pressing plant
Its not the norm to have two people screwing around for a week or two figuring it out when there is 3-5 months of backlog on orders
Maybe 5 years ago but not now
Keep at it
Best

[mischmerz]

From a commercial point of viw this is nuts not viable
Hobby wise there is no issue time is of no consequence
It takes $$ to put the key in the door every day in any pressing plant
Its not the norm to have two people screwing around for a week or two figuring it out when there is 3-5 months of backlog on orders
Maybe 5 years ago but not now
Keep at it
Best

Well - I didn't pick my money from wild growing trees you know. But I understand that pressing plants rather run the usual business instead of catering to experimental markets. But than again - the usual business killed those plants before - who says it's not going to happen again? But I am not going to argue with you. We have different business philosophies and that is ok with me.

m.

[opcode66]

Money Talks...

[mossboss]

Well - I didn't pick my money from wild growing trees you know. But I understand that pressing plants rather run the usual business instead of catering to experimental markets. But than again - the usual business killed those plants before - who says it's not going to happen again? But I am not going to argue with you. We have different business philosophies and that is ok with me.

m.

Sure, don't you know?
Pressing plants have money tree farms, harvested daily
With a good harvest they can stick $3 on every 78 you want
Restoring Wurlitzer machines is far better, Doing well there,
Todd got it, I wonder why
Best

[mischmerz]

Todd got it, I wonder why
Best

Well .. I always hear "money" Did anybody say they want the pressing for free?

m.

[mossboss]

No No No, Not for free, Just heavily subsidized, from the money farm harvest of course
Best

[mischmerz]

No No No, Not for free, Just heavily subsidized, from the money farm harvest of course
Best

As long as it my money farm - why would anybody care? And it grows on bushes - not trees.

m.

[mossboss]

You just need to harvest some more
At least you have a sense of humor
Best