electro plating

[dietrich10]

Any forum members have experience plating?
Curious on the costs and startups if one wanted to get involved:
Amounts of silver, nickel, water, and (if possible) electricity used per month.
Plus how many people needed to run the system.
Lets say even if just plating 20 12" jobs and 20 7" jobs a week.

thanks to all

D

[mossboss]

Any forum members have experience plating?
Curious on the costs and startups if one wanted to get involved:
Amounts of silver, nickel, water, and (if possible) electricity used per month.
Plus how many people needed to run the system.
Lets say even if just plating 20 12" jobs and 20 7" jobs a week.

thanks to all

D

How many plates do you want to do at the same time?
Keep in mind you only apply about a thou and a bit per hour So to say get Masters at 10 thou its about 10 hours for a 12" and about 7-8 hours for a 7" You can get mothers in about 3-5 hours and stampers about the same So we have 20 x 12 x 10 hours = 200 and 20 x 7 x 8 hours 160 step one if you convert them for stampers a total of 360 hours about six baths will do it most likely 8 would be best
So * baths will need about 1600 litres or 400 gallons of Nickel sulfamate and about 50 KG about 110 Lb of Nickel anodes in each bath
So we have the cost of the baths say about $10 K used
Sulfamate about $15 per litre $60 per Gallon about $ 23K
400 KG about 900 Lb of Nickel at about $25/kg = $10K
Additives and auxillaries say about $5K
EPA compliance about $10-15K all depends what the rules are in your state in regards to affluent discharge
Also Circular cutter to take them apart sanding machine for the back of the plates not a great cost about $1 k each
If you are to make masters mothers and stampers you would be needing some automation in the plant as they can be done overnight allow another $10-15 K
That is about it for that about $50-80 K
Silvering unit about $3 K and associated chemicals about another $3 K
so after all this you can start ATTEMPTING to produce metalwork I would have thought that one has to allow another say $10 K for F...up's in the process until you get it half right All up about $80-90 K
In so far as man power is concerned one man should be more than enough unless you want another one to watch the plates going around their spindles for hours on end It does not make the process faster by the way but it gives one a sense of security if the first dude does not turn up for his gig or walks off the stage for reasons only known to themselves
Electricity is the lowest cost so don't even bother with that it is insignificant in the scheme of things
The biggest cost is bad silvering or wet plates stained which you do not know until you get them out and apart
You than need to start all over again if the acetate has been ruined in the first step you need to cut another one start all over so the cost mounts
Stiil it is done that is how we press records It is not computer science However it is riddled with little tricks as well as "secret" recipes, besides each bath has its own particular characteristcs that you get to know only by working with them
If you are going to center them and form them which I doubt you need to do allow for the cost of that gear as well another $10 to $15 K
The prices for gear is all based on used equipment the materials are of course current prices
It is electroforming by the way, the electoform is used in a production process Plating is either decorative, in the main, protection against corrosion or to impart special attributes to the material plated
We may as well get it right here as we are the trolls Hey
If you do decide to go down that path will be glad to help you along if you think it is not a proposition (I don't) I can have a crack at them for you
I am already commited any way no way back
If you want some plates done send me a couple of your cuts nothing urgent obviously I will send plates back to you in exchange of gear that you may have available as I can see that you know where some of it is In the main we want to keep our Neumann going let's see if it works
By the way I did post some answers to Palomino on plating you may want to have a bo-peep at that It is a bit of insight on some of the issues arising in the process
Cheers

[TotalSonic]

Dietrich -
Definitely expect a bit of hassling with the EPA if you get involved in this - electro plating is literally a toxic business.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[dietrich10]

Thanks guys.

I am actually asking the questions to help a friend with research. I pulled out of a setting up a 2-3 press operation last year and no way I would do plating myself.
I need time in the studio already!

D

[Aussie0zborn]

Plating time varies according to the gear you use. A high speed plating tank can make a stamper from a mother in thirty minutes. Also helps if you use a pre-plating tank for lacquers then transfer them to the high-speed tanks for a rapid build-up, rather than plating lacquers in the high speed tanks. The temperature of the pre-plating tanks is lower than the high speed tanks so as to not distort the groove.

That's an optimistic quantity of metal parts, Dietrich.

[mossboss]

[quote="Aussie0zborn"]Plating time varies according to the gear you use. A high speed plating tank can make a stamper from a mother in thirty minutes.
Like to see that There was a lot of Hoo Ha about this back in the days about NSpeed however no plant could deliver the current required so no one took it up The best I heard was 3 Hours for metal to metal where high temperature is not an issue, which I found a bit hard to see, how one can do that consistenly However it is within the realms of possibility
and Columbia certainly did around 4 Hours with the use of dichromate If albumen or fish glue was used temperatures where kept lower as it cooked the separating film Your baths may be at one temperature but your metal to metal "sandwich" is at a much higher temperature due to the flow of current through them
High Current baths need cooling down of the electrolyte due to the higher current flowing through them

[quote="Aussie0zborn"]Also helps if you use a pre-plating tank for lacquers then transfer them to the high-speed tanks for a rapid build-up, rather than plating lacquers in the high speed tanks. The temperature of the pre-plating tanks is lower than the high speed tanks so as to not distort the groove.
Transferring from one tank to another is frought with danger the danger of laminations on the deposit is quite high You need to be real quick, if the film of liquid sulfamate dries out you will get laminations on the deposit, guarranty that for sure Than you wasted a lot of time and material as well as ruining the lacquer
Again Columbia who was considered as the Kings or Queens of electroforming in the record industry stopped transferring plates from tank to tank to avoid the problems They even placed rings on the plates without removing them
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

In the heyday of vinyl record manufacturing, this was standard practise... lacquer disc in pre-plate tank with lower temperature/low current and then tansfer to high speed tank for fast build up. The rubber masking ring was applied at this point.

Mossboss is quite correct that going from one tank to another is fraught with danger as there is a possibility that a spearation layer will build up. The rule of thumb was to let it spin for a while before appplying the current. Back then we procesed twenty jobs a week and never once had a problem with this.

The Europafilm high speed tanks will deliver a 12" stamper in thirty minutes.

[GROOVE-GUARD]

Yes i have experience in e - plating but my english isn´t good
I´m new here, but in the past i reading many contributions. What mossboss writes are 100% good and the calculation are right
Look to "VPI" (france) she closed this year and have enough & good plating stuff , but i don´t who buy this .

[Aussie0zborn]

Welcome Groove Guard. We look forward to hearing from you. Did you work at VPI ???

Bonjour. Si vous employez http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ votre anglais pourrait être aussi bon que mon Français. Je n'écris pas, ne lis pas ou ne parle pas le français. Avez-vous été employé à VPI ? ?

Of the eighteen presses at VPI, sixteen were bought by Disques MPO who already have a large vinyl plant so it would appear they bought them to keep them out of the French market. The other two presses were sold to two guys in the south of France.