Lathe Trolling

[Fred187]

Hello Lathe Trolls.

Thank you for accepting me into your number.

Firstly, I have some burning questions I hope a few of you can answer. I am very interested in the art of cutting records, but have not yet procured any of the technology with which to do so.

I was interested in Souri's machine for a long time, but don't have the money to buy one.

However, I recently discovered the much more cheap, common and accessible option of using an old-school lathe (such as a Rek-O-Kut or a Presto), and I'm thinking I might go down this route, but information seems to be scarce.

My first question, which I can't seem to find an answer to anywhere, is a very simple one: do these machines only cut to acetate? Is it possible to cut real vinyl?

This leads me to my second question: does anyone have a reliable source for blanks? How much do they generally cost?

The real upside of Souri's machine is how cheap the blanks are, but if the same can be applied to an old-school lathe, then it's an easy call.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[studiorp]

Hi, welcome in forum.

First answer : with a lathe you can use too polycarbonate, not only acetates. Polyc. is a good material for start to do experiments with your lathe.

Second : about the source, depend of which blank you speak : if pc ( polyc. ) is easy; if acetate is more difficult and not cheap; if you mean the Souri's blanks is extremly difficult, because he sell only to who buy the entire machine lathe ; unfortunately in this last months he seems that don't sell more anyone.

[Fred187]

Okay, I see.

Where do I get polycarbonate blanks, then?

Also, I know acetate only lasts for about 50 plays before the quality starts to deteriorate. What about polycarbonate?

Would Souri's blanks work with an old-school lathe? I thought you needed a heated diamond stylus to cut them.

What machines do people here use?

[tragwag]

its kind of a loaded question.
Polycarbonate can be EMBOSSED but not cut. try this thread: http://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3289&hilit=leaning+back
Acrylic can be CUT with fair results, but the general consensus is polycarb is the way to go.
this is NOT VINYL PVC like pressed records.

I have the souri machine as well as a Presto 6N, and I've done EMBOSSING on the Souri blanks.
(which are not PVC either, they are some sort of polyester compound)

If you're interested, Im starting to sell small amounts of polycarb blanks to hobbyists.
This is my business, so I'm not interested in supplying other businesses, though I'll gladly sell you a few to try out.
send me an email for pricing: tragwag (at) gmail (DOT) com

PS - sorry for the obscene capitalization, I think it helps with clarity though.

[Babooino]

Hi, welcome in forum.

First answer : with a lathe you can use too polycarbonate, not only acetates. Polyc. is a good material for start to do experiments with your lathe.

Second : about the source, depend of which blank you speak : if pc ( polyc. ) is easy; if acetate is more difficult and not cheap; if you mean the Souri's blanks is extremly difficult, because he sell only to who buy the entire machine lathe ; unfortunately in this last months he seems that don't sell more anyone.

Rafaello yes, he is selling to his registered users as ever, at least as long as i know! i bought a machine from him and just ordered some blanks.

[studiorp]

Ah ok, sorry, I don't know the recent sales situation of Souri...

[Big Al]

its kind of a loaded question.
Polycarbonate can be EMBOSSED but not cut. try this thread: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3289&hilit=leaning+back
Acrylic can be CUT with fair results, but the general consensus is polycarb is the way to go.
this is NOT VINYL PVC like pressed records.

I have the souri machine as well as a Presto 6N, and I've done EMBOSSING on the Souri blanks.
(which are not PVC either, they are some sort of polyester compound)

Hey T

I thought it was possible to cut on Polycarbonate using a diamond stylus!
Are you only embossing on your VR? Not cutting at all?
Be interesting to know why, cost of stylus???

[Fred187]

Any views on a Presto K-8?

Can one retrofit a diamond stylus on such a machine?

Also, I've been thinking of way to troll people once I have a lathe, to honour the noble tradition of lathe trolling. I think the best course of action is to leave records in thrift shops within sleeves of popular hits, but the contents of the record will just be my own private stand-up routine. Thoughts?

[tragwag]

ah yes, I realize now I should have been more specific.
here's some clarity for my previous post:

I do embossing with the Presto 6N on polycarbonate, with sapphire stylus.

I do cutting with the VR on souri blanks with diamond stylus.
Due to the setup of the VR machine, I don't think it could achieve the angle needed to emboss without being heavily modified.
I personally won't be trying that.

By all accounts it is possible to cut polycarbonate with diamond, though I can't personally comment.

[tragwag]

Any views on a Presto K-8?

Can one retrofit a diamond stylus on such a machine?

Also, I've been thinking of way to troll people once I have a lathe, to honour the noble tradition of lathe trolling. I think the best course of action is to leave records in thrift shops within sleeves of popular hits, but the contents of the record will just be my own private stand-up routine. Thoughts?

it depends on the cutting head you have, from what I know all the presto heads take the same shank, which you can find diamond stylus for through:
Todd at Deep Grooves Mastering: http://deepgroovesmastering.com/store/default.aspx
Myshank: http://www.myshank.com/fr/westrex-fairchild-presto/25-diamond-stylus-462-p.html

[Fred187]

Any views on a Presto K-8?

Can one retrofit a diamond stylus on such a machine?

Also, I've been thinking of way to troll people once I have a lathe, to honour the noble tradition of lathe trolling. I think the best course of action is to leave records in thrift shops within sleeves of popular hits, but the contents of the record will just be my own private stand-up routine. Thoughts?

it depends on the cutting head you have, from what I know all the presto heads take the same shank, which you can find diamond stylus for through:
Todd at Deep Grooves Mastering: http://deepgroovesmastering.com/store/default.aspx
Myshank: http://www.myshank.com/fr/westrex-fairchild-presto/25-diamond-stylus-462-p.html

Excellent. I think I'll go for the Presto, then. Anything I should be wary of?

[tragwag]

Any views on a Presto K-8?

Can one retrofit a diamond stylus on such a machine?

Also, I've been thinking of way to troll people once I have a lathe, to honour the noble tradition of lathe trolling. I think the best course of action is to leave records in thrift shops within sleeves of popular hits, but the contents of the record will just be my own private stand-up routine. Thoughts?

it depends on the cutting head you have, from what I know all the presto heads take the same shank, which you can find diamond stylus for through:
Todd at Deep Grooves Mastering: http://deepgroovesmastering.com/store/default.aspx
Myshank: http://www.myshank.com/fr/westrex-fairchild-presto/25-diamond-stylus-462-p.html

Excellent. I think I'll go for the Presto, then. Anything I should be wary of?

Be wary of everything.
If you're new to cutting, I would HIGHLY suggest learning to cut lacquers with a sapphire/ruby stylus first. That method is tried and true!
Once you're used to the way things work, then you might feel comfortable with a ~$300 diamond stylus on a plastic blank

[Fred187]

How difficult would it be to fit a mono lathe (such as a presto K8) with a stereo cutterhead?

It seems like it would be incredibly complex, but I don't know much at all about how these machines function.

[piaptk]

You shouldn't expect to cut with a diamond or with a stereo head on a Presto K8.

The K8, is an amateur unit.

If you want a stereo head, you should get something like a Presto 6N at the very LEAST... and even then, it's sort of underkill.

For diamonds, you DEFINITELY don't want to use a K8, because there is not much in the way of depth/weight control, and there is no easy way to set up heat or vacuum.

You should really read through this forum a lot. There is a TON of advice.

If you want a stereo head with diamond stylus (and don't want or can't get a Souri system), you are looking at a pretty hard road to hoe. Learning how to repair, use, retrofit a semi-pro or better vintage machine (if you can find one) is not easy.

This isn't like buying a CD-Burner... It took me close to 3 years to get good consistent results, and now 8 years in, I'm STILL running into problems that take me hours and hours to figure out.

Expect to spend a lot of time, money, and patience in this hobby.

[powerstrip]

Actually every single question on here has been asked and answered twenty times over on this forum...

Even considering stereo cutting off the jump is overshooting the mark big time.

Most who can cut stereo are $20K/10+ years invested. It's 4X as difficult as cutting mono.

Big things have small beginnings, and they don't come overnight.

[powerstrip]

How difficult would it be to fit a mono lathe (such as a presto K8) with a stereo cutterhead?

It seems like it would be incredibly complex, but I don't know much at all about how these machines function.

You're talking about fitting a $5000 head on a $1000 unit.

If you want to transport your ferrari in the bed of a dump truck go right ahead...!

[Fred187]

Yes, this is as I suspected. I have no expectation for this process to be easy. Merely looking for a degree of future-proofing. I suppose when the time comes, I should just get one of Souri's machines.

Is the K-8 worth getting, then?

What kind of frequency response is it possible to achieve with a machine like this?

I saw this today:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111451308035?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Looks like a bit of a project, but would this be a better machine to get than the K-8 (if it's possible to get it working)?

[powerstrip]

Yes, this is as I suspected. I have no expectation for this process to be easy. Merely looking for a degree of future-proofing. I suppose when the time comes, I should just get one of Souri's machines.

Is the K-8 worth getting, then?

What kind of frequency response is it possible to achieve with a machine like this?

I saw this today:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111451308035?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Looks like a bit of a project, but would this be a better machine to get than the K-8 (if it's possible to get it working)?

follow your heart... always possible to get it working.

frequency response depends on the head, most moving iron mono heads max out from 3-10k CPS and they sound great, embodying the full monophonic spectrum

[Fred187]

Yes, this is as I suspected. I have no expectation for this process to be easy. Merely looking for a degree of future-proofing. I suppose when the time comes, I should just get one of Souri's machines.

Is the K-8 worth getting, then?

What kind of frequency response is it possible to achieve with a machine like this?

I saw this today:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111451308035?_trksid=p2060778.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Looks like a bit of a project, but would this be a better machine to get than the K-8 (if it's possible to get it working)?

follow your heart... always possible to get it working.

frequency response depends on the head, most moving iron mono heads max out from 3-10k CPS and they sound great, embodying the full monophonic spectrum

Assuming I can't find a technician here who can service it (which I probably can't), would I be able to do it myself? I have a (pretty basic) understanding of electronics, and I'm quite handing with a soldering iron. What would I likely have to do?

[powerstrip]

You're just going to have to take the plunge and find out for yourself.