Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

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EpicenterBryan
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Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33267Unread post EpicenterBryan
Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:06 pm

Hey guys, thought I would give you a sneak preview of what I call Caruso Massimo. I'm waiting for some parts but have made quite a bit of progress over the last few weeks. My goal is to build a hybrid of old school and modern visual and functional elements. This is based on Flow's Caruso boards, with a few tweaks to make interconnection easier.

Zero time to go into this tonight, but here is my concept for the front panel:
Caruso Massimo Front Panel.jpg
This has 2 pairs of mechanical VU meters, with a selector switch for 4 stereo sources for each meter pair. The VU's also have peak indicators. The controls on the Caruso boards are brought to the front panel to ganged / log step attenuators. More on that later. There are 8 meter channel calibration 10 turn pots - very sexy units that look like clocks. More on those later.

In the lower center are two old school switchcraft switches for power and RIAA on/off. VU meters have been converted to LED, and serve as power on indicators. The front panel is 5U, the main body is 3U. At the top will be two color TFT touch screens with USB interfaces. More on this later...

Does this get your juices flowing?
IMG_3239[1].JPG
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opcode66
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33274Unread post opcode66
Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:55 am

I was originally going to do the same thing as far as how I wanted to mount the boards and the trimmers on opposite sides. But, because of this message from Flo I had to rethink that. I mounted the jacks on the back by themselves and made 3d printed stacking board standoffs to hold the boards close to the front panel. I'm using the trimmers on the boards. Too bad you are this far in to your build...

"just saw on lathetrolls that you want to put pots on external breadboard.
i would not do that.
the pcb is made for front plate mounting.
those pots you adjust once.
especially feedback pot and input is best as close as possible...."
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ROLANDJAYS
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33281Unread post ROLANDJAYS
Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:18 am

Are you making those to sell ? Or just for your personal use ?

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opcode66
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33285Unread post opcode66
Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:52 pm

I'm making builds for clients. I have one cooking now with a slightly different set of features and a smaller profile.
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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33289Unread post EpicenterBryan
Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:08 pm

opcode66 wrote: I'm using the trimmers on the boards. Too bad you are this far in to your build...
Not really Todd. It's all about the shielding / cables and build method used and what you are up to. Flows comment about putting pots on a bread board is really related to signal shielding. That would totally work for you if you treat the breadboard as a circuit board with surrounding ground plane and use shielded wire to get there and back. You can buy bread board that is one single plane of copper with only holes drilled through it. Then there is a special hand tool you can buy that can cut a doughnut or isolated pad in the copper plane.

Here is a picture for you. In this, I used the tool to cut an isolated copper doughnut. That pad is totally surrounded by copper which could be your shield. Even if the signals are wire wrapped, they can be right on top of a ground plane using this prototype technique. I don't expect Flow to ever think you would know about lost prototyping art like this, so I totally understand his response when 'bread board" was mentioned. When needed, there are prototyping tricks that will provide what you need with zero noise. It depends on the situation.
IMG_3244[1].JPG
As far as my build, I have selected the correct wire and shielding to make what I'm up to work as expected. What ever I run into, I can fix but I have been wrong before.

Let me share a funny story from my collage days when I thought I new it all in my second year of electrical engineering. I had a Peavey mixer (actually two bolted together) that I really wanted to mod with Mute / Solo switches and indicators per channel. I tested my design including the logic and analog multiplexers in a lab at school, and started drilling holes and wiring stuff up at home. To my surprise, my mix-board turned into a single country radio station receiver, only by day - and was fine by night. The station it picked up was 3 blocks away. At night, their antennae pattern changed and my mix board no longer picked up the station. I discussed this with one of my instructors, and DUH. I assumed since all my wires were inside an aluminum enclosure, noise was not an issue so I used unshielded ribbon cable I had and perf board wire wrap to build everything. Anyway, in the photo below, you may not see the board with LOTS of hole plugs covering my first lesson in the need for shielding. I think it's on the left. An ugly lesson for a young and cocky pup.
564957_462153927132839_1878409819_n.jpg
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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33290Unread post EpicenterBryan
Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:47 pm

ROLANDJAYS wrote:Are you making those to sell ? Or just for your personal use ?
Hi ROLANDJAYS, no I'm just doing this for myself.
At this point I'm not interested in making more than one (for myself). Some of the things I wanted added are far more expensive than anyone would be willing to pay for in my opinion. Like what value should be applied to using old school VU meters? I bought an entire Teac model 5B mixer and scrapped it to get 4 identical VU's. What I really wanted was 4 Ampex 350 VU's which would be about $125 each if I could get 4 identical ones. This build is so about what I want, I could never duplicate it - but others might be able to substitute things to help them get the cost down...

I know Todd is offering both Caruso board stuffing, and chassis full builds. I can say that his prices are reasonable. There is a lot more involved in sourcing components and weeding through inconsistencies in the Caruso parts list although Flow has done a pretty good job with his documentation.

Also, from my stand point having AC inside a box that I might make for someone else opens me up to a law suite. I would rather have a UL listed wall wort that plugs in, but those are hard to find with all the voltages I would like to have, with the reserve power and regulation...

So, as far as a whole system build - I'm out. Perhaps in the future a Caruso variation board set with mods for remote pot extensions, VU meter drivers, and other things to be discussed.... Perhaps. But NO, no build for sale from me.

Bryan

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opcode66
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33291Unread post opcode66
Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:25 am

Actually, that is not the reason he is suggesting the trimmers stay on the board. And, I use shielded cabling for my detached jacks. The reason is more subtle than that. But, you can figure it out. Also, you want trimmers. Not pots. But, you'll figure that out too.
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dimi751
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33300Unread post dimi751
Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:57 pm

Hi Bryan

Nice job on the build :D

Question what driving the vu metres?

Dimi

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opcode66
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33302Unread post opcode66
Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:39 pm

Regarding power, do what the modular guys do. Buy a 90w 19v laptop power supply brick and step down internally from there.
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flozki
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33306Unread post flozki
Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:42 pm

well
i made the board the simplest and cheapest possibe.
so small pcb area. short signal path. easy to assemble. a drill press and one panel and you can mount. that was the idea behind.
but of course you can put potis connectors wherever you want. just make sure cables are not too long and use a nice shielding.
or you just mount the cards on the back. the adjustments are normally done once when you set up your system. nothing to change
constantly except maybe the riaa switch.

personally i prefer front mount. with a patchbay in the rack with all connections accessible anyway, i think its just nice to
patch all on front.

but i like to see all the different builds of that preamp.

happy cutting
f.

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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33309Unread post EpicenterBryan
Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:23 pm

opcode66 wrote:The reason is more subtle than that. But, you can figure it out.
I'm sure he had concerns about cable shielding and capacitance as well. Like I said, I'm happy with the shielding in the cable I ordered, and already did a spice simulation on it's effect. I expect the cable length to be under 1.5 feet, but ran the spice using 3 feet. Zero effect for under 200khz but I have been wrong before so will see. No I'm not drilling holes yet.

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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33310Unread post EpicenterBryan
Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:57 pm

dimi751 wrote:Question what driving the vu metres?
I'm driving the VU's with TL072 dual opamps. I didn't find an off the shelf solution for what I wanted to do but did find some pretty cool generic dual opamp proto boards on E-bay. The boards are unpopulated and come 5 to a main board. Each dual opamp board can be snapped loose from the main board. The board supports surface mount and through hole opamps. They configured the boards with enough component locations to make the most common opamp configurations like inverting / non-inverting and so on. It also has a ground plane, and spots for bypass caps.

Here is the generic schematic and the board layout:
schematic.JPG
Op Amp board x5.JPG
So what I did was look at what was on the schematic and "X" out what I didn't need. Those parts you don't install. Then looked at what I did need connected where, and wrote down the component value needed for that location. Other parts that aren't needed but really need to be a short (resister value 0) just put a jumper in that position. In one case, I needed a resister and capacitor to be in series and there was only 2 holes for a resistor, so I soldered the two parts in series and installed them in the one resistor position.

I'm not sure if I would recommend these for everyone, but they are handy in that they have a ground plane and save you the hassle of wire wrapping. I found 6 pin screw terminal blocks that would fit, but decided to go with headers and Dupont style connectors. There are a few things that are a bit irritating about them that I could go into if you like, but again - these are a pretty handy board.

Here is what they look like once I stuffed them. Notice the 3 pin headers. Those will attach to the meter calibration pots.
IMG_3248.JPG
And here is a shot testing to make sure I had enough gain and attenuation AND my super sexy 10 turn KnobPots I plan to use...
IMG_3271.JPG
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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33332Unread post EpicenterBryan
Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:22 pm

flozki wrote:personally i prefer front mount. with a patchbay in the rack with all connections accessible anyway, i think its just nice to patch all on front.
Hi Flo,
don't get me wrong, I do like the boards and especially appreciate that you have made these available to everyone, and published schematics as well. And the price is good too. It would be really great if a whole parts kit were available also, but I know how much time is involved in the venture.

My first plan was to front mount them like you recommended in a 1U chassis. I had this Digidesign VSD that I wasn't using and gutted it. I planned to replace the switching power supply with the Acopian Linear +/- 15 V supply shown. But I started to want meters so went with a bigger box.
IMG_3272.JPG
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33333Unread post EpicenterBryan
Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:02 pm

Once I decided I wanted some meters and some controls, I started looking for a bigger 3U chassis and ran across these monsters. These were part of a larger data acquisition system built for the Aerospace industry. Pretty much everyone used these in the late 1990's, including NASA. They were well known for being very accurate, and configurable for massive numbers of channels... but at a high cost. The company who built these (Tustin Electronics) was sold to other companies 2 times since, and this product line was retired.
Tustin Chassis tear down 1.jpg
In my prior life, I did work for a company who had many of these systems. I was not directly involved with them but knew a bit about them, and knew they were stuffed with Analog and Digital cards including D/A, sample holds, A/D and amp / filter cards. The one card shown I believe is on of their discrete programmable gain amplifiers. Those little puppies were really expensive ... $1000 each as I recall. There are 24 of them in these chassis.

The chassis have massive linear power supplies with +/-15 and +/-5 volts. I don't know the specs but the diodes in the bridges are all 5 Amp, and the transformer is shielded.

I got a hold of some of my old coworkers from back in the day and word is the last system they had was decommissioned last year, and all the documentation was recycled. Too bad - I had a project in mind for some of those amp cards.

I had an enjoyable weekend tearing them down and getting them ready. I even salvaged some hard to find twisted shielded wire wrap wire for future use.
Tustin Chassis tear down 2.jpg
I ended up removing the card cages and cutting one pair down per chassis just for the power supply regulator board and mounting.
Tustin Chassis tear down 3.jpg
When I decided to use the sorter chassis for this project, I cut all the vertical bars on the rear, and made a new cover for that area to mount the Caruso boards (and other stuff yet to be added).
IMG_3273.JPG
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33334Unread post EpicenterBryan
Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:33 pm

Here are two of the simple connector additions I did to the Caruso boards.
On the top is a little adapter that changes the 3 pin pot spacing to a 0.1 spacing 3 pin header so I can connect a Dupont style connector to remote the pots. All these adapters were made using wirewrap headers, where one end is the normal length for a connector, but the other end is long for doing wire-wrapping. The long end is easily bent with needle nose pliers to orient the pins where ever you need them. The ones on the top of the board just fit straight down into the through holes that are there for the pot.
IMG_3242.JPG
Here is a right angle connector addition on the bottom of the board to run to the VU meter driver opamps. This one just soldered to the pads on the bottom, and is bent and spaced up so the connector clears the board.
IMG_3241.JPG
Here is a shot of both boards with cables attached. These are longer than actually used. They were cut to length when fit in place, then terminated to the opamp driver board connectors. The wires were salvaged when I scrapped the Teac 5B for the VU meters. Did anyone notice the attempt to use resistor color coded wire here? Bahhhhhh! Only because I had something close in the bag of salvaged wire. Missing green, but still useful to me to keep wires straight in my head.
IMG_3240.JPG
IMG_3249.JPG
Well, that the full extent of my update until more parts arrive...

Bryan
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dimi751
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33336Unread post dimi751
Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:36 am

Fantastic work Bryan ! Many thank for responding to my questions regarding vu metres
I like the design you do retro look.

Appreciate you post

Dimi :D

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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33787Unread post EpicenterBryan
Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:36 am

Caruso Massimo is progressing.
The mystery USB LCD Color Touch screens are due to arrive on Thursday. Once here I can verify mechanical mounting and finalize the front panel cutouts needed.

These oddly enough came from Bulgaria, and have been in transit for well over a month now. I may have an update in a few days. But, I also have another project that has been in the works for several months that I'm sure will suck me in this weekend.

I bought an Ampex MM1000 16 track 2" recorder from 1969 a few months ago. So far I have removed and transported 300 pounds of gear from the beast. What is left (200 miles away) still weighs 350 pounds. Saturday I will attempt to extract it from the second floor of a very tall warehouse with no elevator and only stairs available from outside the building. What was I thinking?
5018570449_0c4463e423_b.jpg
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33875Unread post EpicenterBryan
Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:50 am

It took 10 guys to get it up there, and just the two of us (and 4 hours) to get it safely down and loaded thanks to my Harbor Freight chain hoist.
Moving the beast.jpg
All assembled, initial checks done and parts on order.

Now I'm ready to get back to the Caruso Massimo Build, and Groove Scribe testing. Updates soon!

Oh, and those mystery touch screens ROCK!!!

B
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dimi751
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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 33879Unread post dimi751
Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:49 pm

Hi Bryan

Nice pics ! I'm glad I was not the one push the recorder up the stairs! Look forward to your updates very interesting as always.


Dimi

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Re: Bryan's Caruso Massimo Build

Post: # 34108Unread post EpicenterBryan
Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:01 am

Wow, I can't believe it's been a month since the other project sucked me in and I set this one aside. All 16 tracks on the other project now record and play back, and it sounds awesome! I still need an actual 2" calibration tape for 15ips, and a bunch of VU meters for Ampex 440's or MM1000. Dixson or Simpson are interchangeable in the size I need. The ones I need are the the ones with 4 connections on the back, and 2 lighting holes at the bottom. PM me if you have some, or just the extra glass - or a 2" calibration tape for 15ips - NAB. May also be interested in one for 7 1/2 ips.

OK, back to the project at hand. It turns out these LCD panels are nearly the same size as an Ampex 440 / MM1000 meter. Check out the photo.
IMG_3387[1].JPG
I had to order some small milling bits to cut the rectangles for the displays and they have arrived! I also 3D printed a test cut / size pattern for the displays and double checked them with the actual units. For once, a supplier had correct dimensions posted for their product. So my dimensions for the panel cuts are correct.

But I'm starting to think about using some different knobs on the front panel so I'll have to double check with the available space. I'm starting to dig the look of the Ampex knobs - especially now that I have 3 different decks and so many similar looking channels.

No time tonight to go into how cool the LCD touch screens are, but Friday night I have slated to set them up and show you why these are SO COOL! For now, I will only say that they are programmable, and have several audio inputs, and a USB interface for programming and screen capture.

Oh - so many questions you have - and so many answers to come...

Bryan
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