vinyl recorder with precision motor

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Gus
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42625Unread post Gus
Sun May 22, 2016 6:29 pm

it's possible to have a worn diamond stylus

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marcy108
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42630Unread post marcy108
Sun May 22, 2016 10:45 pm

hi SueDenim,

>So, I'm afraid that this leaves us back at square one

no,i could go forward.
i could know suspencion,plate setting,precision motor setting are no problem.
i really appreciate your support.thank you very much.

>You say that this problem is restricted to the outer diameters of a 12". If you examine the groove under a microscope from the outer diameter towards to centre, does the problem suddenly stop or do the variations in groove depth gradually become less extreme?

it's a bit difficult judge,but looks suddenly.

and i found new problem.wow and flatter occuer at 7"
i think it's good less weight for w&f.
but w&f still occuer even weight set 5g(!)
groove width is stable.
i confirmed it can cutting without w&f,if i don't use precision motor.

anyway i think the root cause of the problem are same point....
can you find any suspected point...?



hi Gus,

thank you for reply.
this problem occuer with new stylus...

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marcy108
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42631Unread post marcy108
Mon May 23, 2016 4:38 am

marcy108 wrote:and i found new problem.wow and flatter occuer at 7"
i think it's good less weight for w&f.
but w&f still occuer even weight set 5g(!)
groove width is stable.
i confirmed it can cutting without w&f,if i don't use precision motor.
this problem has been improved.
sorry,i just took mistake about motor setting.
w&f is ok.

still continue first problem...

i appreciate your continued support.

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marcy108
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42655Unread post marcy108
Mon May 23, 2016 10:02 pm

As One of the pattern,Wide groove and shallow groove come alternate....

I re-try with new stylus.
But things didn't change...

Any help would be appreciated!
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SueDenim
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42662Unread post SueDenim
Tue May 24, 2016 3:36 am

Hi again Marcy,

Could you cut some unmodulated grooves into a black blank, then take a 2 photos: the first of the problem area and the second where you think the problem stops (I realise this last one it tricky!)

Thanks.

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Gus
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42663Unread post Gus
Tue May 24, 2016 8:48 am


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marcy108
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42675Unread post marcy108
Tue May 24, 2016 11:35 pm

hi SueDenim,

thank you for your suggesting!
i made images.
i said problem gone "suddenly".
but it seems i'm wrong.it gone "gradually"
sorry make some confuse.
can you find any point?

hi Gus,

thank you for showing good video.
i'm done adjust following this video.
but problem still are occuring....
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handcut
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42677Unread post handcut
Wed May 25, 2016 5:56 am

Marcy, I have had this problem, in exactly the same place on the disc, or at least it looks the same... Anyway, whatever it was went away when I stripped, cleaned and relubricated the turntable bearing. I still do not know exactly what caused it, but it has happened more than once and each time this approach has made the problem go away. I have a theory that the precision plate's additional weight is putting a lot of additional stress on the bearing (one of the weaker parts of the SL-12xx), causing it to operate way out of spec and perhaps it is creating some additional friction somewhere. I believe this friction may be resulting in some low frequency vibration that, at the outer edges of the disc, is strong enough to transfer to the groove. I can't be sure, its just a theory, but it seems to work.

EDIT: if you do service the bearing, be sure to use the proper oil! Technics part number: SFW0010. It is expensive, if you can find it... Anderol 465 works well.

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Ben
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42687Unread post Ben
Wed May 25, 2016 12:59 pm

Souri maybe can get you the bearing, he did for me. Maybe be still had some in his shop.
The platter weight is very intense and made my first bearing collapse and broke.... But i suspect it was already weak because without motor and plate i couldn't get a good cut without flutter.

Souri sold me the bearing and it now works very well and is very stable... If you machine is very sensitive to flutter and especially if you have other related problems... I'd definitely try to change this part!

Ben

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pellegrino707
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42695Unread post pellegrino707
Wed May 25, 2016 6:20 pm

I also had this issue, was a nightmare!

At the end, after 2 weeks of panic and actually completely disassembling the whole vinyl recorder, the problem stoped, but i am still not sure about what was causing it.
I think it is related to the dashpot somehow, but can be a mix of a not very free of moving dashpot together with a motor issue.

By the way, anyone has a suggestion regarding a good quality oil to use in the vinyl recorder dashpot?

Cheers
Marco

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handcut
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42697Unread post handcut
Wed May 25, 2016 6:31 pm

Well, there's always one of these little beauties: http://www.mikenewaudio.com/bearing.php

What an absoulte work of art they are. I mean, just wow... It would be great to try one out, unfortunately I always seem to find something else to spend the required £350 on. Like, you know, food...

Anyway, last time I looked there were new Technics bearings available on eBay for about £20. Could be worth a punt for the price of six or seven blanks....

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marcy108
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42722Unread post marcy108
Thu May 26, 2016 6:14 am

Hi Handcut,

Thank you for share your experience!
I bought and used SFW0010 to my turntable.
But problem are still occurring...
Bearing may broke?
I will try with another turntable.

Thank you for showing great bearing.
And Is this the eBay bearing you said??
http://m.ebay.com/itm/TECHNICS-SFMZQ20-01-MOTOR-SHAFT-CENTRE-BEARING-SPINDLE-SL1210-SL1200-MK2-MK3-MK5-/301947952365?nav=SEARCH

Hi Ben,

Thank you for reply!
I'll ask to souri.

Did you got like this bearing??

http://m.ebay.com/itm/TECHNICS-SFMZQ20-01-MOTOR-SHAFT-CENTRE-BEARING-SPINDLE-SL1210-SL1200-MK2-MK3-MK5-/301947952365?nav=SEARCH


Hi pellegrino,

Thank you for reply!
Can you show me where and how to completely disassembling VR?

I think everyone say it need to use good oil to bearing of turntable.
Have you changed dashpot oil??




Now I'm considering parchase eBay bearing.
I'll post again when things changed.
I appreciate your continued support.

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Ben
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42723Unread post Ben
Thu May 26, 2016 6:57 am

Yes, it looks pretty much the same to me

Good idea to try with another turntable

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handcut
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42724Unread post handcut
Thu May 26, 2016 7:02 am

marcy108 wrote:Hi Handcut,

I bought and used SFW0010 to my turntable.

And Is this the eBay bearing you said??

Have you changed dashpot oil??
Hi,

I think it is important to also clean the bearing with isopropyl alcohol, rather than just appying more oil. Some of these SL-12xx's are quite old and if you do not know the full history of the unit, you do not know what kind of abuse it has been subjected to. The bearing is not difficult to disassemble, just be careful not to lose the circlip!

Yes, that is the correct bearing.

I was given a syringe of oil by Souri (which I still have) and I believe it is nothing special, just mineral oil, perhaps with some anti-corrosion additives. The thing that I'm not sure of is the viscosity and this is important to get right. When I'm ready for oil, I will do some experimenting.

Good luck!

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pellegrino707
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42732Unread post pellegrino707
Thu May 26, 2016 12:03 pm

For what i know the oil should be changed at least one time per year in the dashpot, being open upside it is very easy to dust and dirt to go inside and make the pluger movement less fluid.

When i had this issue i started recalibrating everything, starting from the axis between the overhead and the turntable (you find a very useful description on Myshank website), then the head position against the blank, weight on the blank, tension of the spring on the dashpot, i turned it until i reached the position in which the pluger inside and outside is straight and the movement it does is straight as well.

After all this the problem was still there, so i removed the head and disassembled the head keeper, this means remove the 2 screws that are on the 2 sides of it and let it move up and down. This is a very delicated operation, since find back the right position can take hours and precision, since it have to be 100% parallel to the earth. I found out the two screws nedded a bit og grease on them because the movement wasn't as somooth as expected, so i cleaned them and put a very little amount of grease in the holding holes.
After mounting them back and calibrated properly, i did againa ll the calibrations of about, and i can say then the problem went away.

I was a very long process that took some days of testing and experimenting, so i am not sure that the issue was in those 2 screws, anyway i would definitely check if the vertical movement without the cutterhead is smooth and if the holder is parallel to the earth.


I hope you will solve your issue!
Marco

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marcy108
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42769Unread post marcy108
Fri May 27, 2016 2:32 am

hi ben,
Ben wrote:Good idea to try with another turntable
i couldn't any update with another turntable.
of course i did cleaning bearing of the turntable with andydrous ethanol and use oil...


hi handcut,
handcut wrote:I think it is important to also clean the bearing with isopropyl alcohol, rather than just appying more oil.
i did cleaning bearing with andydrous ethanol that i had.
handcut wrote:I was given a syringe of oil by Souri (which I still have) and I believe it is nothing special, just mineral oil, perhaps with some anti-corrosion additives. The thing that I'm not sure of is the viscosity and this is important to get right. When I'm ready for oil, I will do some experimenting.
do you mean this oil?
i think this oil is for dashpot,right?


hi pellegrino707,
pellegrino707 wrote: When i had this issue i started recalibrating everything, starting from the axis between the overhead and the turntable (you find a very useful description on Myshank website), then the head position against the blank, weight on the blank, tension of the spring on the dashpot, i turned it until i reached the position in which the pluger inside and outside is straight and the movement it does is straight as well.
yes,i did it.

pellegrino707 wrote:this means remove the 2 screws that are on the 2 sides of it and let it move up and down.
you mean this 2 screw?



i bought bearing on ebay.i will try with it when i received.

i suspect dashpot oil and this mark.(please take a look image)
everyone knows what this mark mean?
i'm guessing use oil to inside bar.i can't find what kind of oil is fit...
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handcut
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42782Unread post handcut
Fri May 27, 2016 6:36 pm

marcy108 wrote:
do you mean this oil?
i think this oil is for dashpot,right?
Yes, yes, sorry, I was talking about the dashpot there, not the bearing.

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marcy108
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42783Unread post marcy108
Sat May 28, 2016 12:16 am

handcut wrote:Yes, yes, sorry, I was talking about the dashpot there, not the bearing.
thank you for telling me!


i did oil change.
i did greased up 2 screws that i think Pellegrino mean.

but problem didn't went away...

i found new suspected point.
cutterhead bar can stop in the middle of down.
this mean suspension still not work well...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QrplpyHhNw

i still need any advice...
any advice would be appreciated!
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pellegrino707
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42785Unread post pellegrino707
Sat May 28, 2016 6:42 am

I mean this screw in your last picture, abd of course the same one in the other side.
I completely unscrewed them, so to have the bar keeping the head aside for the overhead structure. These screws have a corresponding hole in the part were they are attached, i have clean the holes and put grease in them, then cleaned the shaft of the screws and re-screwed the bar to the holder until i get nicely tight screws, free movement up and down 8without any point of stop, it have to be super fluid) but also no movement in other directions, just veertical.
The bar have to be parallel to the floor, so you should use a leveler for this.

It took me several days to get it well done, so i think you should try a bit more in that sense, if the movement is not fluid there is no possibility you can get nice movement with the dashpot.

Chhers,
Marco

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marcy108
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Re: vinyl recorder with precision motor

Post: # 42787Unread post marcy108
Sat May 28, 2016 7:15 am

Hi Marco,

Now I try to adjust cutterhead keeper go to parallel to the earth.

But it is limit.(please take a look image)
I think it's not enough.

Because one screw is distorted...
I'll ask to souri and keep on trying adjust.
Thank you!
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