Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

This is where record cutters raise questions about cutting, and trade wisdom and experiment results. We love Scully, Neumann, Presto, & Rek-O-Kut lathes and Wilcox-Gay Recordios (among others). We are excited by the various modern pro and semi-pro systems, too, in production and development. We use strange, extinct disc-based dictation machines. And other stuff, too.

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studiorp
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Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 28050Unread post studiorp
Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:44 am

Hello people, question of day : there were a or more brands of lathes or cutting heads originally produced in Russia in last 40 years ? Copy of Neumann or other ?
Isn't possible that in this world exist only Neumann, Scully, Lyrec and other for lathes, and for cutting heads Neumann, Westrex, Grampian, now too Vinylium and then Caruso, etc.; I don't believe that this is possible; for me there will be too some brands from Russia..., but which ?

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DaveRichter
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 28051Unread post DaveRichter
Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:55 am

wanna know that too :-)

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studiorp
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 28052Unread post studiorp
Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:18 am

Perhaps uvoscillator that live to St. Petersburg could know these brands, if exist...

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studiorp
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 28053Unread post studiorp
Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:42 pm

In the meantime , here a photo of a unknown russian cutting lathe

Image

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flozki
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 28054Unread post flozki
Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:26 pm

there are no professional russian lathes.
russia (melodia) had neumann lathes from the 60ies on. later a couple of dmm lathes.got records of that.
also all other east block countries used state of the art technology. neumann's... toolex alphas.
the market was just too small to develop an own lathe.
i guess space programm and atomic bombs kept them busy.

the one on the picture is prob. pre WW2 or shortly after.

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studiorp
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 28092Unread post studiorp
Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:21 am

Update : I have spoken with uvoscillator, and he confirm to me that all lathes in Russia were imported from Europe or other parts of world.
Perhaps there was a little production for military world.
Here some photos of a diy russian lathe :
Image
ImageImage
Image

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flozki
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 28095Unread post flozki
Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:08 am

great find! hehe.
do you have some high res pictures?
if you have it would be great to send me by mail...

and source where the lathes have been?

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uvoscillator
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 28103Unread post uvoscillator
Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:40 am

:) this double monster located in south of russia, own by my friend, one deck still works...

btw likey offtop, but interesting machine - magnetic disc turntable МАГ-Д1 (MAG-D1).
was made especially for military use, like fast recording and reproducing of Morse code messages...

ps I'll try ask someone about recorders, as in 60-70s recording flexis it was popular service like "sound letter"
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Best !

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uvoscillator
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 29512Unread post uvoscillator
Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:07 am

Best !

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studiorp
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 29513Unread post studiorp
Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:01 am

Hmm, interesting lathe ... I have already seen this overhead somewhere...
European brand or other ?

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uvoscillator
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 29519Unread post uvoscillator
Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:32 pm

I think it may be russian, but not sure, just an idea :D
Best !

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dubcutter89
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 29530Unread post dubcutter89
Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:29 am

looks like a neumann r21 / telefunken ela103 copy...

the cutterhead looks interesting :D

Lukas
Wanted: ANYTHING ORTOFON related to cutting...thx

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d
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 48702Unread post d
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:42 am

In the post by Sturiorp on the lathe there is a writing that translated in:

Construction by radio-hobbyist
Apparatus for sound recording on "bones" (X-ray film)
Radio-hobbyist - mechanic is unknown
Given to museum by Suchoverhovym E.V.

:)
as i know during that time they recorded music on "bones" from tapes that were illegally recorded music from European radios.
_______


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jesusfwrl
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 48818Unread post jesusfwrl
Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:20 am

Flo, Melodia was also using Ortofon/Lyrec systems, I have some articles with pictures somewhere. I have actually not seen any pictures of them using Neumann lathes, but they probably did.

I'm sure there were manufacturers of lathes in Russia, probably pre-war. Almost every country had some kind of lathe manufacturer prior to the invention of tape recording. Were any of these professional lathes? Well, I think the popular distinction between pro and not-pro lathes is fundamentally flawed, since "professional" is supposed to mean anything that was used as part of conducting business. In this sense, I am pretty sure all the Prestos, RekOkuts Fairchilds, etc. certainly count as professional lathes of their time, since very few people back then were rich enough to have one simply as a hobby. Most of these were being used professionally.
The Neumann and Scully systems however reached such a high level of sophistication that it is undeniably faster and easier to achieve professional results by todays standards on these rather than on anything else. This is not to say that you should not attempt to cut masters or dubplates on anything else, it simply means that anything else will be far less comfortable to use and it will probably take a lot longer to get similar results. You also run the risk of never getting adequate results if you are using an ancient system. In this sense, not so good for business.

Most of the pre-war lathes were not as quiet and precise as the Neumann and Scully lathes, but they can of course be modified, if you are wiling to spend the time and money. The only catch is that there is no real support for anything you do to customize an older system and you are completely on your own with it. It might work if you are skilled enough, and it might also not work. With a Neumann system, you have better chances of it performing to a standard that can be used to cut commercial masters nowadays, and even if you cannot achieve this on your own there are at least a few people in the world with enough experience to get the job done in repairing your Neumann lathe.
On the other hand I have personally succeeded in getting an ancient Fairchild lathe to perform to professional standards of sound quality, and I know of at least a couple of more cases including a Presto 8DG and other such systems that have successfully been used to cut professional masters in the past decade. However, by the time you get there it is questionable whether the whole process will have come out any cheaper than buying a Neumann lathe to begin with and the result may not be as ergonomic as a Neumann system, or worse, not achieving the same standards of performance. As a general rule of thumb, anything that will achieve the same standards of performance of a Neumann lathe will cost as much or more than a Neumann lathe.

I have been documenting lathe manufacturers and models by country, and I am slowly trying to compile a complete list. 99% of these will never be able to achieve decent sound quality by todays standards, but then there is always the 1% and your potentially innovative ideas...
Whether what you end up with can viably be used as part of conducting business or not, nobody can predict. I have even seen some Neumann and Scully lathes in such extreme stages of decay, that they do not really stand much of a chance of being put to commercial use. The brand itself is by no means a guarantee. A sturdy lathe base of potentially Russian manufacture (if you can find something like that) may have better chances of success than a completely worn out Neumann system. So keep on searching and keep us up to date with your findings.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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d
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 48841Unread post d
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:55 pm

thanks for info.

I had an old magazine that was monthly printed about newest things in technology and stuff during soviet times. there was a article about vinyl cutting. I will try to find, scan it and maybe if have time to translate...

best regards.
_______

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untitledthe
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Re: Russia brands lathes or cutting heads ?

Post: # 49490Unread post untitledthe
Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:32 am

Nice read this topic, sorry for bringing it up again :D

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