VR cutting problem!Help

This is where record cutters raise questions about cutting, and trade wisdom and experiment results. We love Scully, Neumann, Presto, & Rek-O-Kut lathes and Wilcox-Gay Recordios (among others). We are excited by the various modern pro and semi-pro systems, too, in production and development. We use strange, extinct disc-based dictation machines. And other stuff, too.

Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn

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Tremdall
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:50 am

Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49047Unread post Tremdall
Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:21 am

JHL wrote:Thanks so much for davor!he help me a lot and we finally found the noise reason is may cause by the broken stylus
Hi JHL,

it's not surprising your stylus is damaged with the wrong set up of the VR.

I suggest, first make sure all the settings of the VR are set within certain safe parameters. And only thén change the old damaged stylus for a new / re-sharpened stylus.
Otherwise your stylus will be damaged again. Damaging the stylus can happen rather easily!
Once the gargoyle had withdrawn and unlatched his suckers from the topside of Tremdall's agonizing torso, a profound slumber would overtake him, as though from the labor of many days.

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Ben
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Location: Montreal, Canada
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49050Unread post Ben
Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:02 am

Hey there
That's what I thought too.... I had a broken stylus and it sounded exactly like that...
If you do your adjustment with a new one ... make sure to upload a video of how you do it... so we can assist you and not break another one.... you'll see it can happen really fast.

especially the way you calibrate your counter weight and all ... with and without the dasphpot

Cheers :)

ps: Tremdall is totally right on this... make sure to check your adjustment with the broken stylus...

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JHL
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:02 am

Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49068Unread post JHL
Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:57 pm

Tremdall wrote:
JHL wrote:Thanks so much for davor!he help me a lot and we finally found the noise reason is may cause by the broken stylus
Hi JHL,

it's not surprising your stylus is damaged with the wrong set up of the VR.

I suggest, first make sure all the settings of the VR are set within certain safe parameters. And only thén change the old damaged stylus for a new / re-sharpened stylus.
Otherwise your stylus will be damaged again. Damaging the stylus can happen rather easily!
Hi Tremdall,i will take care when i get new stylus and get decent training before cut any blank.

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JHL
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:02 am

Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49069Unread post JHL
Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:06 pm

Ben wrote:Hey there
That's what I thought too.... I had a broken stylus and it sounded exactly like that...
If you do your adjustment with a new one ... make sure to upload a video of how you do it... so we can assist you and not break another one.... you'll see it can happen really fast.

especially the way you calibrate your counter weight and all ... with and without the dasphpot

Cheers :)

ps: Tremdall is totally right on this... make sure to check your adjustment with the broken stylus...
Hi Ben!i will order a new one from myshank and hope steven can help me fix the broken one.
i think nothing wrong with my connection:computer-soundcard-optimizer-mixer-main unit-meter-amp-cutterhead,so must something one with my weight setting
i will upload video when i get new one! always thanks for you encourge!

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Tremdall
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:50 am

Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49076Unread post Tremdall
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:07 am

JHL wrote: i think nothing wrong with my connection:computer-soundcard-optimizer-mixer-main unit-meter-amp-cutterhead,so must something one with my weight setting
I think Ben means the set up of the adjustments not equipment;
stylus weight, counterbalance of cuttinghead, the alignement of cuttinghead (horizontal to plate, and centred towards middlepoint of record), torque of table (weight of blanks can make a difference in wow), a proper thin rubber mat (and make sure the mat doesn't slip), suction not too close or far away, blank temperature, max volume for cutting in respect to the groove distance (too hard volume damages stylus), eq problems in master. Also, forget about using stylus heat until you can make good cuts. Also this can damage a stylus.

Basically, the VR works great, but only when all parameters above are correct and in balance with ech other. In that perspective it's a pretty fragile system. One minor mistake (like forgetting to turn on the green knob or forgetting to fasten the bolt on the wheel or blank) will immediately result in a stylus disaster. And that's only one way to destroy it...
Once the gargoyle had withdrawn and unlatched his suckers from the topside of Tremdall's agonizing torso, a profound slumber would overtake him, as though from the labor of many days.

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JHL
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49077Unread post JHL
Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:38 am

1.stylus weight:around 15 - 20gram brass counterweight 40-45 gram
2.the alignement of cuttinghead is setting as myshank's tips
3.my turntable is sl 1200mk3d,blank is souri 1.5mm blank.
4.i bought a 1.5mm mat mix with rubber and phellem,the seller said it can avoid static and against quakes.it's that proper?
5.suction 2mm to stylus and 2mm to blank
6.black blank temperature around 40
7.using big groove distance to do testcut,volume around 0db
8.stylus heat to zero,but should turn the heat switch on?

correct me if i am wrong,thanks a lot for Tremdall's tips

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Ben
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49080Unread post Ben
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:10 am

Hey JHL,
The reason I also want to see a video, is your first audio clip has a lot of wow/flutter and pitch weirdness... so it will be a good thing to evaluate especially the dashpot so stretched out. Everything needs to feel smooth and slick. If there's too much tension somewhere.... your wallet will pay the price. Make sure your lead screw (the one in the big cylinder) is well oiled with spray oil also, friction there is a no no.
Steven helped me a lot

I don't know about the SL1200 mk3, usually Souri recommend the mk2 but i don't know about the specs of the mk3, I bought the precision plate and motor from him so I don't really look for turntables anymore.

Stylus heat is delicate, and the stylus wire on a myshank stylus is way more durable than Souris one....so the heat you put is different on both. Personally and that's only my opinion... I would setup the machine perfectly without it... and make sure there's no weird noise, or rattle or anything ... after that, when everything is stable... you can start playing with this.
Like Tremdall said... you forget the green = ouch stylus.... you forget the red = ouch stylus. Just take it one step at the time.

So start by filming all your setup and everything .... and let others here guide you through the process and their observations on your system.
Calibration of your vu is freaking important too... I used Johnathan technique (SUNBEAR) and it worked like a charm. I'll try to find the link... or the email he sent me years ago.

Keep the faith :)
Ben

ps: The positive point to have bought it second hand is that you don't have to deal with nightmares of Souris saying ""cut cut cut"" to you .... when all goes to hell!!

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tragwag
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49081Unread post tragwag
Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:08 pm

:) happy to see we got somewhere with the issues JHL!
hoping now that with a new stylus you'll at least be in the ballpark and can use the many adjustments folks have discussed to fine tune everything.
it's a lot to keep an eye on, but you'll get it.
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
http://www.audiogeography.com

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Tremdall
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49086Unread post Tremdall
Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:37 am

JHL wrote:1.stylus weight:around 15 - 20gram brass counterweight 40-45 gram
2.the alignement of cuttinghead is setting as myshank's tips
3.my turntable is sl 1200mk3d,blank is souri 1.5mm blank.
4.i bought a 1.5mm mat mix with rubber and phellem,the seller said it can avoid static and against quakes.it's that proper?
5.suction 2mm to stylus and 2mm to blank
6.black blank temperature around 40
7.using big groove distance to do testcut,volume around 0db
8.stylus heat to zero,but should turn the heat switch on?

correct me if i am wrong,thanks a lot for Tremdall's tips
1: depends on your spring. weight can be much lower. Just check when grooves vanish or needle of pick up skips
2 yes
3: Only MKII. 3 doesn't have enough torque = wow
4: very thin rubber mat better
5: little more also ok
6 40-50
7 don't understand what you mean... you make a testcut at the same groove distance you're using for the 'final cut'
about volume: I agree, better a little too low and slowly raise volume to find max. I personally never go to the max volume. Saves a lot of problems.
Mostly I start at low volume and just raise it gradually with every new blank. For every new musictitle I cut I write down the exact positions (stylus weight, volume at mixer, length record, groove spacer etc) So I sometimes don't even have to make a test cut for another new title. Just re-read my notations.
Before I always tried to cut on the max volume, but then you don't have a buffer for possible problems (eq etc, etc). So basically you make it a little easier for yourself...
8 off
Once the gargoyle had withdrawn and unlatched his suckers from the topside of Tremdall's agonizing torso, a profound slumber would overtake him, as though from the labor of many days.

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JHL
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:02 am

Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49091Unread post JHL
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:19 am

Hi Ben,
I already send my stylus to myshank today,so i have wait new stylus arrive so can do adjustment and upload video
"no space between the metal parts and the plastic tube" is only index on the daspot setting?how many oil should be fall in?mine is half.

Hi Tragwag,
yeah,finally find out the reason,i am so relief that is no the problem of cutterhead.although stylus cost a lot....

Hi Tremdall,
Keep record your tips everytime on my notebook,thanks lot for you experience.
about the turntable,if mk3 doesnt have enough torque,all the things i could do is lighten the weight?add souri's Precision motor is helpful on mk3?or maybe i just need change mk3 to mk2,sp10?

Again,thanks everyone for have such patience for a newbie :wink:

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Ben
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49092Unread post Ben
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:36 am

Hey there,

I'm actually talking about the lead screw inside this :
Analogcut-Vinylrecorder-T560-Dubplate.jpg
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JHL
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49093Unread post JHL
Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:06 am

微信图片_20180124225830.jpg
Hi Ben ,i use my finger to touch inside and it feel lots of oil inside,how many spray oil is enough?
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Tremdall
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49095Unread post Tremdall
Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:04 pm

JHL wrote:or maybe i just need change mk3 to mk2,sp10?
Yes
Once the gargoyle had withdrawn and unlatched his suckers from the topside of Tremdall's agonizing torso, a profound slumber would overtake him, as though from the labor of many days.

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Ben
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49154Unread post Ben
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:19 am

If you feel you're turning and it feels really slick and when you touch you have oil on your finger... it's ok!

If you run out ... you'll feel it when you turn the screw that it's not smooth anymore... Souri told me something like that...lol

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Tremdall
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49163Unread post Tremdall
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:38 pm

Ben wrote: If you run out ... you'll feel it when you turn the screw that it's not smooth anymore... Souri told me something like that...lol
Good tip. Never thought about it but seems logical. I guess it goes for all moving parts. Thing also is, since some parts are open, dust can come in and after time the oil may get thicker, especially in the dashpot when you have it open (it doesn't need to be fully closed). So basically I'm thinking about putting a plastic cover over the VR overnight.
Once the gargoyle had withdrawn and unlatched his suckers from the topside of Tremdall's agonizing torso, a profound slumber would overtake him, as though from the labor of many days.

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David34
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49195Unread post David34
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:14 am

I am in Australia and know the machine inside out.

Fly me to China and I will train you like Souri trained me!!

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David34
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49196Unread post David34
Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:17 am

ps: are you cleaning the disc with anti-static before cutting?

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JHL
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49232Unread post JHL
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:23 am

Hi David34,
it is really kind of you,but i dont have enough money for tickets for now :? thanks you anyway.
by the way,if anyone travel in China in the future,please let me know and i will take you taste the best Cantonese food :D

and i use turtle wax to clean the blank,do i need add other anti-static .

Back to the point,i just recieve my two new stylus from Myshank(super quick!)
so i make this video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6E4nKDnVX4&feature=youtu.be
Hoping my setting is right now...

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Ben
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49240Unread post Ben
Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:45 pm

Hey Buddy,

Can you take a picture of your scale please.... it goes so far away... are you sure you're measuring 15g?
Your gauge looks really stretched out... careful also not to drop the stylus on the blanks... that's bad also.

I'm curious... have you adjusted your cutterhead like myshank has on his website.... because yours looks a little low.... maybe it's just the camera angle
I'm still very curious about the dashpot being so....stretched out...



Ps: Thanks for the invitation in China I've done several tours over there with my band... I had a wonderful time... we did many cities the first time and I discovered a wonderful country with amazing and generous people. We did Funhill festival, Zebra Festiva, Midi in Beijing and Shanghai...even released a dvd of this.
Amazing time I had, China knows how to rock big time!!!

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JHL
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Re: VR cutting problem!Help

Post: # 49242Unread post JHL
Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:21 pm

Hey Ben,
i am measuring the countweight on video,cause my scale is a 50 gram scale,so you can see it is stretched out a lot,to 45g.
i am follow this marcy108's past post to measuring countweight.https://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6158&hilit=mk3&start=20
but still not sure what is the right way to measuring cutterhead weight..
微信图片_20180206102651.jpg
drop the stylus is my bad!i must take it careful in the future

i do follow myshank's instruction,head parallel to the blank,stylus is on the axis,but like you said,it looks low when the cutterhead up..can i ask about the right distance between the stylus to blank when the head up?
微信图片_20180206102636.jpg
微信图片_20180206105432.jpg
PS:i know 'Your Favorite Enemies ' used to tour in China and come to my city-ShenZhen,i am still in high school at that time hahaha
you guys even have weibo and douban site 8)
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