Different consistency/type of swarf
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- cuttingsomedubs
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:30 am
Different consistency/type of swarf
Hello everyone,
I recently bought a VR direct from Souri, just about have it all set up. Obviously I have TONS to learn but for the moment I'm generally pleased with how it's started off and most things are working. I've been lurking and reading the forum for ages and generally find whatever I need in old posts. But I'm making my first post today because I could not find any relevant info from past posts (do correct me if I'm wrong!)
So after my first 10 cuts or so I've emptied my swarf jar, and there's two bulks of very different swarf in there. I remember back in training Souri would occasionally look at swarf to diagnose a problem with a cut, so I'm just worried if it may be a sign of some sort, or maybe different cuts just lead to different swarf??? Here is a picture to demonstrate:
The swar fon the left is quite hard compared to the right, almost like some sort of very thin plastic wire, while the swarf on the right is an almost cotton-like, very fine and soft lump. Anything to make of this?
Many thanks,
and great meeting you all
I recently bought a VR direct from Souri, just about have it all set up. Obviously I have TONS to learn but for the moment I'm generally pleased with how it's started off and most things are working. I've been lurking and reading the forum for ages and generally find whatever I need in old posts. But I'm making my first post today because I could not find any relevant info from past posts (do correct me if I'm wrong!)
So after my first 10 cuts or so I've emptied my swarf jar, and there's two bulks of very different swarf in there. I remember back in training Souri would occasionally look at swarf to diagnose a problem with a cut, so I'm just worried if it may be a sign of some sort, or maybe different cuts just lead to different swarf??? Here is a picture to demonstrate:
The swar fon the left is quite hard compared to the right, almost like some sort of very thin plastic wire, while the swarf on the right is an almost cotton-like, very fine and soft lump. Anything to make of this?
Many thanks,
and great meeting you all
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Re: Different consistency/type of swarf
Just a guess but did you forget to turn your stylus heat on between one cut and the other? Other guess - did you forget to reset your depth of cut and then do so halfway thru? Third guess - Did you use a harder poly for the first cuts and a softer one for the subsequent cuts?
Meaning it looks like the coarse swarf is from a cut that is considerably deeper than the subsequent cuts or it's plowing through material with no help - or the material is stiffer and takes more to cut into it.
The hard plastic looks like it's from lead-in/lead-out grooves which IIRC need to be deeper on a poly blank vs a normal lacquer - kind of like we used to do for 78s.
Cartridges on changers in those days couldn't stay in a regular-depth groove so we'd end up with a case where the lead-in groove was cut 2-3X as deep as the body of the cut - and then the same thing for the leadout groove - and you spun the depth knob on the fly (except for the eccentric circles at the end that you had to take off and do by hand on a special mount).
This guy had a similar problem cutting on poly blanks with a quasi-related system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E-Egb8GC1g
Meaning it looks like the coarse swarf is from a cut that is considerably deeper than the subsequent cuts or it's plowing through material with no help - or the material is stiffer and takes more to cut into it.
The hard plastic looks like it's from lead-in/lead-out grooves which IIRC need to be deeper on a poly blank vs a normal lacquer - kind of like we used to do for 78s.
Cartridges on changers in those days couldn't stay in a regular-depth groove so we'd end up with a case where the lead-in groove was cut 2-3X as deep as the body of the cut - and then the same thing for the leadout groove - and you spun the depth knob on the fly (except for the eccentric circles at the end that you had to take off and do by hand on a special mount).
This guy had a similar problem cutting on poly blanks with a quasi-related system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E-Egb8GC1g
2 Kinds of Men/Records: Low Noise & Wide Range. LN is mod. fidelity, cheap, & easy. WR is High Fidelity & Abrasive to its' Environment. Remember that when you encounter a Grumpy Engineer. (:-D)
- cuttingsomedubs
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:30 am
Re: Different consistency/type of swarf
Hey Diamone, many thanks for the reply! I think the most likely cause is stylus heating being on in some cases and not in others, I haven't been using it consistently so that I don't melt plastic on my stylus, just waiting to get the hang of everything else first. I reckon the times I tried it out might be the reason for a different consistency of swarf being cut out. I guess it could also be related to some calibration I've been doing as well.
No depth adjustment on the fly with my machine so I think the depth will be the same for leadins and leadouts.
That's a funny little device he's built, pretty sweet though!!
Thanks again mate!
No depth adjustment on the fly with my machine so I think the depth will be the same for leadins and leadouts.
That's a funny little device he's built, pretty sweet though!!
Thanks again mate!
Re: Different consistency/type of swarf
Did you use different settings on the groove spacing knob (green knob)?
Bigger grooves will possibly lead to bigger swarf. Although I can't remember if the difference is this big. Perhaps in combination with stylus weight.
The thinner swarf looks more normal to me.
Not so sure if the stylus heating makes difference re: swarf. I never use stylus heating and the swarf is very thin, like your thinner swarf. I suggest as a beginner I would not use any heating at all (I'm sure Souri has told you this as well). Just try to do it without first. The suggested noise may even be not as bad without heating, as is repeatedly suggested here. Obviously there is a difference, but I suggest learn to cut first without. Heating can destroy your stylus more easily.
Bigger grooves will possibly lead to bigger swarf. Although I can't remember if the difference is this big. Perhaps in combination with stylus weight.
The thinner swarf looks more normal to me.
Not so sure if the stylus heating makes difference re: swarf. I never use stylus heating and the swarf is very thin, like your thinner swarf. I suggest as a beginner I would not use any heating at all (I'm sure Souri has told you this as well). Just try to do it without first. The suggested noise may even be not as bad without heating, as is repeatedly suggested here. Obviously there is a difference, but I suggest learn to cut first without. Heating can destroy your stylus more easily.
Once the gargoyle had withdrawn and unlatched his suckers from the topside of Tremdall's agonizing torso, a profound slumber would overtake him, as though from the labor of many days.
- cuttingsomedubs
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:30 am
Re: Different consistency/type of swarf
I'm guessing that soacing should not make a difference?? I was under the impression that would change the distance between grooves and therefore would probably not have an effect on width of depth of groove and swarf.
And yeah, I learned very quickly that heating can go wrong, luckily there seems to be no damage to my stylus after cleaning off the plastic, I think I managed to save it quick enough! Was just trying it out as my curiosity got the best of me, and to be honest there did seem to be a quite considerable difference in noise levels, HOWEVER I won't be going anywhere near the red knob for a while.
Cheers!
And yeah, I learned very quickly that heating can go wrong, luckily there seems to be no damage to my stylus after cleaning off the plastic, I think I managed to save it quick enough! Was just trying it out as my curiosity got the best of me, and to be honest there did seem to be a quite considerable difference in noise levels, HOWEVER I won't be going anywhere near the red knob for a while.
Cheers!
Re: Different consistency/type of swarf
Trying to understand a few things I'm reading here:
The groove pitch doesn't affect the groove depth, right? Just the spacing between grooves.
Does the weight on the stylus determine the depth/width of the groove or how soft the poly is?
I remember new stylus should be 15 gr, old one 20 gr. This advice is about quality of transcription then I guess.
Thanks!
The groove pitch doesn't affect the groove depth, right? Just the spacing between grooves.
Does the weight on the stylus determine the depth/width of the groove or how soft the poly is?
I remember new stylus should be 15 gr, old one 20 gr. This advice is about quality of transcription then I guess.
Thanks!
- ObiKutnobi
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:36 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Different consistency/type of swarf
depth will be affected by weight, width will be affected by amplitude of signal
Re: Different consistency/type of swarf
"depth will be affected by weight, width will be affected by amplitude of signal" sounds logical...
Still bit puzzled by the 15-20gr advice.
Do the good people here think the stylus needs more pressure while getting more blunt to get the same groove depth and/or same level of transcription?
Still bit puzzled by the 15-20gr advice.
Do the good people here think the stylus needs more pressure while getting more blunt to get the same groove depth and/or same level of transcription?
Re: Different consistency/type of swarf
No. Only use more stylusheat then. Very little or you overheat the heatingwires causing them to loosen.HannesFTL wrote:"depth will be affected by weight, width will be affected by amplitude of signal" sounds logical...
Still bit puzzled by the 15-20gr advice.
Do the good people here think the stylus needs more pressure while getting more blunt to get the same groove depth and/or same level of transcription?
About swarf; check if you’ve fastened the bold on the pressure-spring. If you don’t fasten this, it may alter the depth of your cuts. Normal swarf looks like the white swarf on the right side of your pic. Alternately, it may be a problem with the motor inside the big iron tube. This motor is connected to the groove-space knob (alternating the width of the groove). I once had this problem. Also: You may need to check the back of your vr to see if the din-connection doesn’t shortcut, causing different signals to the motor. If this is the case, solve this quickly or you risk the motor getting damaged.