Pressing Shellac Records?

Once you have cut a master laquer, you have metal stampers created and have records pressed from them. Discuss manufacturing here. (Record Matrix Electroforming- Plating, Vinyl Record Pressing.)

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mossboss
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 37838Unread post mossboss
Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:00 am

I am glad you can now appreciate the issues as well as the difficulties one has to overcome so as to make these things
It is not a as easy as it sounds but don't despair you just never know
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Chris

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mischmerz
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 37840Unread post mischmerz
Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:12 pm

mossboss wrote:I am glad you can now appreciate the issues as well as the difficulties one has to overcome so as to make these things
It is not a as easy as it sounds but don't despair you just never know
Best
Oh .. I was able to appreciate the challenges before. It's just - I live in America. And I believe that if there's a market, there's a product. And I know that Shellac aficionados routinely pay 10, 20 or (even way) more bucks or more for a single record. Even if the production would cost 2 or three times the price of a vinyl record, it would still make sense.

But Shellac might not the way to go. I am now investigating the possibility to create a special vinyl blend containing hardeners that is able to withstand the tortures of a mechanical device better. We'll see :)

Michaela

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martin-esq
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38148Unread post martin-esq
Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:37 am

I assume you've seen: http://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?p=15747#p15747 & http://www.smooth-on.com/gallery.php?galleryid=157 ? Do keep us updated, I'm very interested in this topic as well.

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mossboss
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38158Unread post mossboss
Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:46 pm

I am not so sure that any hardeners to be added to any PVC compound will take the punishment, Regardless one has to pursue all avenues
Another point
Someone here has said that abrasive additives where used so as to sharpen the stylus
That is not quite correct
A common filler was powdered slate very very fine, which no doubt served the purpose
Gum Arabic Shellac some natural Resins as well as raw rubber and a few other micro ingredients were also added
Any way,
As pointed out there no issue in doing the pressing, even getting the compound blended in the minimum qty required
So far no one wants to carry the initial cost of the material,
Besides the pain to get all the stuff gathered and deliver to the blenders,
I can say that expecting the plant to fork out the cost's for an amount of compound that may never ever be used again after a few hundred or even 1000 pressings its a big ask
Despite the fact that 78 aficionados fork out 10 and 20 bucks or more each, the plant will never see that kind of money, may be lucky to get $2-2.50 per pressing and people whinge at that
Thats the hard reality on this matter
The point is, until someone puts their hands up to carry these cost's, well, it looks like it will stay exactly where it is on the shelf. Simple
Best
Chris

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38162Unread post jesusfwrl
Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:53 pm

I have also been very much interested in this subject. I have a very old Garrard hand cranker which still works perfectly well and we also have frequent power cuts ...

I have experimented with cutting records into different materials and then trying to play them back on the Garrard but none of it works. Polycarbonate was my first try. What happens is that it plays for a few second after lowering the needle on the record at a continuously slowing down speed until it grinds to a halt under the weight of the tonearm, which is a bit over 150g. I use less than that when embossing polycarbonate, but this is not the only issue here. The turntable keeps on spinning but the needle starts embossing into the record until the record is standing still and slipping on the turntable. Obviously, this material is too soft.

I think Chris is right in that hardeners on vinyl will probably not be able to do the trick. I am not sure if there really is a reasonable alternative to Shellac for such machines. The other idea I've had was modifying such machines with a spring added to reduce the weight of the needle on the record. From a commercial standpoint, this doesn't make much sense though since I am not sure how many owners of such machines would be willing to modify their machines to be able to play non-shellac records.

So for the time being, the easiest solution would be to find someone willing to invest in a series of albums, lets say 20 titles, with a pressing volume of 1000 units per title, and willing to pay for this upfront. Or, someone with the equipment in their garage willing to experiment a lot and willing to pay for the cost of such experiments.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
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mischmerz
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38172Unread post mischmerz
Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:20 pm

mossboss wrote: Despite the fact that 78 aficionados fork out 10 and 20 bucks or more each, the plant will never see that kind of money, may be lucky to get $2-2.50 per pressing and people whinge at that
Thats the hard reality on this matter
The point is, until someone puts their hands up to carry these cost's, well, it looks like it will stay exactly where it is on the shelf. Simple
Best
I would be willing to pay 2,50 per record. Maybe even 3 bucks. For a volume of 1000 records. Any takers?

Michaela

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tragwag
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38565Unread post tragwag
Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:42 pm

not sure if this adds to the discussion at all, but the person who made this video contacted me about cutting masters at some point.
In the video they copied an existing 78, but with their own material hard enough to play back with a steel needle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HptDnjEk4BE
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
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mischmerz
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38574Unread post mischmerz
Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:30 am

tragwag wrote:not sure if this adds to the discussion at all, but the person who made this video contacted me about cutting masters at some point.
In the video they copied an existing 78, but with their own material hard enough to play back with a steel needle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HptDnjEk4BE
Do you have any more information about the mixture or how to get in touch with them?

m.

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mossboss
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38579Unread post mossboss
Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:17 am

This is more interesting Same Guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbUKQZpnbrU
Best
Chris

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mischmerz
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38580Unread post mischmerz
Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:43 am

mossboss wrote:This is more interesting Same Guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbUKQZpnbrU
Best
Very cool. Thanks for sharing. Does anybody have an idea what kind of stuff that is?

m.

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mossboss
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38583Unread post mossboss
Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:54 pm

Down the comments when the question was put to him he suggest that you look up the definition of "secret"
Would be certainly of interest to you as well as some others here
Best
Chris

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mischmerz
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38590Unread post mischmerz
Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:29 pm

mossboss wrote:Down the comments when the question was put to him he suggest that you look up the definition of "secret"
Would be certainly of interest to you as well as some others here
Best
Yeah - I read that. But there's so much combined knowledge here - I thought that maybe somebody has an idea. Maybe he put fibers or other materials into the vinyl mix. If you listen closely, there is quite some surface noise audible.

mm.

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mossboss
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38605Unread post mossboss
Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:30 am

From a commercial point of viw this is nuts not viable
Hobby wise there is no issue time is of no consequence
It takes $$ to put the key in the door every day in any pressing plant
Its not the norm to have two people screwing around for a week or two figuring it out when there is 3-5 months of backlog on orders
Maybe 5 years ago but not now
Keep at it
Best
Chris

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mischmerz
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38625Unread post mischmerz
Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:59 am

mossboss wrote:From a commercial point of viw this is nuts not viable
Hobby wise there is no issue time is of no consequence
It takes $$ to put the key in the door every day in any pressing plant
Its not the norm to have two people screwing around for a week or two figuring it out when there is 3-5 months of backlog on orders
Maybe 5 years ago but not now
Keep at it
Best
Well - I didn't pick my money from wild growing trees you know. But I understand that pressing plants rather run the usual business instead of catering to experimental markets. But than again - the usual business killed those plants before - who says it's not going to happen again? But I am not going to argue with you. We have different business philosophies and that is ok with me.

m.

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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38709Unread post opcode66
Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:38 pm

Money Talks...
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
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mossboss
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38724Unread post mossboss
Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:24 am


Well - I didn't pick my money from wild growing trees you know. But I understand that pressing plants rather run the usual business instead of catering to experimental markets. But than again - the usual business killed those plants before - who says it's not going to happen again? But I am not going to argue with you. We have different business philosophies and that is ok with me.

m.
Sure, don't you know?
Pressing plants have money tree farms, harvested daily 8)
With a good harvest they can stick $3 on every 78 you want :lol:
Restoring Wurlitzer machines is far better, Doing well there, :D
Todd got it, I wonder why
Best
Chris

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mischmerz
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38735Unread post mischmerz
Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:47 pm

mossboss wrote: Todd got it, I wonder why
Best
Well .. I always hear "money" :) Did anybody say they want the pressing for free?

m.

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mossboss
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38740Unread post mossboss
Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:17 am

No No No, Not for free, Just heavily subsidized, from the money farm harvest of course
Best
Chris

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mischmerz
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38747Unread post mischmerz
Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:38 am

mossboss wrote:No No No, Not for free, Just heavily subsidized, from the money farm harvest of course
Best
As long as it my money farm - why would anybody care? And it grows on bushes - not trees.

m.

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mossboss
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Re: Pressing Shellac Records?

Post: # 38751Unread post mossboss
Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:58 am

You just need to harvest some more :lol:
At least you have a sense of humor
Best
Chris

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