Hey all
Why don't we compile a list of cutting lathe brands as well as all the principal components used on them by people here
Things like Model designation Year of manufacture accessories extras etc etc
It most likely make a good reference point
So who is first?
Cheers
Record Cutting Lathes
Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn
Record Cutting Lathes
Chris
That is why I asked Steve for Sub Forums
https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=1550&mforum=lathetrolls
https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=1550&mforum=lathetrolls
Happy to learn something new.
Wanted: Stylus for Presto, Mono heads Grampian, Fairchild, Presto, Fairchild 740 lathes, Presto 8n, 8d 8dg lathes or parts or Presto or wot ever recording Amps, PM me what you have for sale.
Wanted: Stylus for Presto, Mono heads Grampian, Fairchild, Presto, Fairchild 740 lathes, Presto 8n, 8d 8dg lathes or parts or Presto or wot ever recording Amps, PM me what you have for sale.
well. i guess you find this on my website...
just waiting for more input and pictures. but would love to update a little.
i havent done too much last 2 years...
http://www.floka.com/cutpage.html
i think for such info the forum is not the best place....
i still have tons of pdfs and stuff....and one day i will add.
but in the mean time.... if you send me a mail with some brands, infos, pictures. i will definitiely update within time....
and maybe it gives me a kick to update more...
flo
just waiting for more input and pictures. but would love to update a little.
i havent done too much last 2 years...
http://www.floka.com/cutpage.html
i think for such info the forum is not the best place....
i still have tons of pdfs and stuff....and one day i will add.
but in the mean time.... if you send me a mail with some brands, infos, pictures. i will definitiely update within time....
and maybe it gives me a kick to update more...
flo
Cutting Lathes
Hey Flo
Your site is GREAT that is for sure but as you have already said a bit of up dating would be a good thing as well for us who always look for information
For newcomers it is still a damn good resource No problems
Cheers
Your site is GREAT that is for sure but as you have already said a bit of up dating would be a good thing as well for us who always look for information
For newcomers it is still a damn good resource No problems
Cheers
Chris
How about a list of what every body is using and where...pro and not. I think this would be pretty interesting.mossboss wrote:Hey all
Why don't we compile a list of cutting lathe brands as well as all the principal components used on them by people here
Things like Model designation Year of manufacture accessories extras etc etc
It most likely make a good reference point
So who is first?
Cheers
Flo's site mentioned above is an amazing hive of information, but I think it would be cool to know who's using what and where and what problems or sucesses we're having....
knowlage is power..pass it on
me...london a i'm using a VMS80 with a SX74 head...don't ask me what my rack is as i don't know...but id know.the B-mod hasn't been done yet...main problems these days of late ahave been lacquer and styli compatability..
of late adant have been less than impressive..and MDC lacquers have been less than consistant...
I've swapped to transco 320/ 320M styli, with transco 14" lacquers...they've been top top notch as a combination..Transco are very different of old...new ownership etc..very impressed in st johns wood.
It's not getting to the summit thats important, it's how you climb the mountain.
Cutting lathes ETC
Yes that was the idea but it is slow in coming I am sure it will though
It takes a bit of proding as well so thanks for that 3rd
Not happy to hear you are having issues you had them a little while back as well
By the way
How many cutting hours are you keeping the stylus on the head ?
As a rule around 20 Hours sees them dead
This also depends what you have been cutting
Lots of Vertical rather than lateral movements as in certain tracks sees them dead lot quicker
The tip dissapears fast
I know it is a pain but an inspection under the microscope every few hours of cutting will prevent a lot of pain
Are you adjusting heat on a per lacquer basis?
We place the play back arm on while we listen to a say 1-3 K signal whatever you are happy with while cutting a test track on the very lacquer we are going to cut we than adjust the pot on the VMS until no no further improvement in background noise by any further heat on the stylus keeping within the limits of course is heard than we back the pot a little
This is the best way to get the optimum heat setting for that lacquer they do have variations and impossible to tell by looking at them
Are you preheating the lacquers during your rather cold winter over there?
An infra red lamp gets them up to heat real quick keep it on while cutting as well
Some times it is a combination of any of the above that will cause issues
We have found the above works most of the times with any lacquers
even some ancient ones from the 70's
Hopefully I am not preaching to the converted Ha Ha
Cheers
It takes a bit of proding as well so thanks for that 3rd
Not happy to hear you are having issues you had them a little while back as well
By the way
How many cutting hours are you keeping the stylus on the head ?
As a rule around 20 Hours sees them dead
This also depends what you have been cutting
Lots of Vertical rather than lateral movements as in certain tracks sees them dead lot quicker
The tip dissapears fast
I know it is a pain but an inspection under the microscope every few hours of cutting will prevent a lot of pain
Are you adjusting heat on a per lacquer basis?
We place the play back arm on while we listen to a say 1-3 K signal whatever you are happy with while cutting a test track on the very lacquer we are going to cut we than adjust the pot on the VMS until no no further improvement in background noise by any further heat on the stylus keeping within the limits of course is heard than we back the pot a little
This is the best way to get the optimum heat setting for that lacquer they do have variations and impossible to tell by looking at them
Are you preheating the lacquers during your rather cold winter over there?
An infra red lamp gets them up to heat real quick keep it on while cutting as well
Some times it is a combination of any of the above that will cause issues
We have found the above works most of the times with any lacquers
even some ancient ones from the 70's
Hopefully I am not preaching to the converted Ha Ha
Cheers
Chris
Hello everybody!
This is my first post and
I would like to ask You In advance to excuse my poor english. May the content be what matters...
I work on a VMS80 for several years now, it´s combined with a SAL74B and a SP79 console.
Any questions about my experience with any component of these are welcome.
As I am just employed as cutting engineer my knowledge about mercantilistic aspects like prices for and source of lacquers and styli is quite limited.
Let me start with a short comment on some subjects adressed here before:
The durability of the stylus seems to have an enormous range from studio to studio; I use transco 320K on an SX74 cutting all kinds of audio on all formats, on MDC. A change of stylus usually has to be done after about 200-300 cutting hours.
I clean the stylus before every cut with eldermark soaked with a little acetone. During this the helium and suction is already turned on to prevent the fumes coming into the head.
The heating is adjusted every now and then, mainly by watching the cutting result through the microscope; an adjustment by weighing the background noise is also recommendable, But: "stripes" on the groove walls, sometimes a result of a generous heating current do not affect the noise level too much but may cause big problems within the galvanic stages and the pressing.
An oldening of the lacquer before usage to my practical experience does not have sensational effect but I heard that in some cases it improves the cutting result - A harder lacquer might lead to a more plain groove but also increases the stylus wear.
This is an opportunity to mention the importance of the galvanic department for the evaluation of the cut: A poor pressing quality in the sense of high noise and crackle also affects the cutting studio´s reputation and indeed the cut influences the potential quality of a vinyl production pretty much.
So does the raw material (the lacquer) and it is great to know the manufacturers coordinate their occasional innovations with galvanic experts before the studios work with it ;o)
The usage of very old lacquers or those of unknown origin might cause surprises at the silvering stage - a warning note with the lacquer surely will be appreciated...
Has anybody heard about serious attempts to produce a new test record which represents the RIAA E1/DIN45543/IEC98 curve to a satisfying degree? I think without a reliable test record a cutting studio will not survive.
So much for now,
Max
This is my first post and
I would like to ask You In advance to excuse my poor english. May the content be what matters...
I work on a VMS80 for several years now, it´s combined with a SAL74B and a SP79 console.
Any questions about my experience with any component of these are welcome.
As I am just employed as cutting engineer my knowledge about mercantilistic aspects like prices for and source of lacquers and styli is quite limited.
Let me start with a short comment on some subjects adressed here before:
The durability of the stylus seems to have an enormous range from studio to studio; I use transco 320K on an SX74 cutting all kinds of audio on all formats, on MDC. A change of stylus usually has to be done after about 200-300 cutting hours.
I clean the stylus before every cut with eldermark soaked with a little acetone. During this the helium and suction is already turned on to prevent the fumes coming into the head.
The heating is adjusted every now and then, mainly by watching the cutting result through the microscope; an adjustment by weighing the background noise is also recommendable, But: "stripes" on the groove walls, sometimes a result of a generous heating current do not affect the noise level too much but may cause big problems within the galvanic stages and the pressing.
An oldening of the lacquer before usage to my practical experience does not have sensational effect but I heard that in some cases it improves the cutting result - A harder lacquer might lead to a more plain groove but also increases the stylus wear.
This is an opportunity to mention the importance of the galvanic department for the evaluation of the cut: A poor pressing quality in the sense of high noise and crackle also affects the cutting studio´s reputation and indeed the cut influences the potential quality of a vinyl production pretty much.
So does the raw material (the lacquer) and it is great to know the manufacturers coordinate their occasional innovations with galvanic experts before the studios work with it ;o)
The usage of very old lacquers or those of unknown origin might cause surprises at the silvering stage - a warning note with the lacquer surely will be appreciated...
Has anybody heard about serious attempts to produce a new test record which represents the RIAA E1/DIN45543/IEC98 curve to a satisfying degree? I think without a reliable test record a cutting studio will not survive.
So much for now,
Max
wow 200 hours! you sure its not minutes?
never heard that.
just came back from a usa trip (i visited quite a few of the important mastering rooms on may way) .
and one of the bigger cutting rooms told me the following and very interesting thing:
he uses apollo laquers.
runs the stylus on 0.6 amps (thats what the meter says) so we dont know the absolute value. i use almost ever 0.5A
he changes after 15 hours consequently. since he is doing that the results in the galvanics are much better. after 15 hours usage, he gets rejects from time to time. so he changes after 15 hours always.
f.
never heard that.
just came back from a usa trip (i visited quite a few of the important mastering rooms on may way) .
and one of the bigger cutting rooms told me the following and very interesting thing:
he uses apollo laquers.
runs the stylus on 0.6 amps (thats what the meter says) so we dont know the absolute value. i use almost ever 0.5A
he changes after 15 hours consequently. since he is doing that the results in the galvanics are much better. after 15 hours usage, he gets rejects from time to time. so he changes after 15 hours always.
f.
Max
Well Well
I do not know why some people take an arbitary rather than an objective view of the cutting process
There is no way that one lacquer will be the same like the next one neither is the stylus for that matter they differ from one to another
I can assure every one here that the Sapphire or the Ruby both man made stones used in stylii will have a slight variation in crystal structure hardness etc from one to another
The idea is if they do not grow as a single crystal they will not look like they do
Further the lacquer manufacturer will also do his best to provide a consistent product within a plus or minus range of specifications as to materials used in the mixture which is used in the coating
Besides the aluminium substrate will also be ground down within a specific finish and thickness all of course within a range + or - whatever that is
I do not understand when people are making a statement that goes:
This is good for so many hours or this heater setting is OK for all or any lacquers placed on the lathe for a cut
Sure the plating guys will always tell you when they got a clean or an other wise cut
In the separation process a well trained ear will tell you every time
With a clean cut acetate the form will come off like the skin of a mandarin and in a bad cut it will most likely come off like peeling the thinest skinned valencia oranges with bits of the lacquer sticking in the nickel grooves
accompanied by a rather scary noise like squeezing celophane tissue
However that is defeating the purpose
It is a bit late by than with substantial time effort as well as materials been wasted
Some of the steps already mentioned in my previous psot will go a long way in eliminating quite a lot of the uncertainty in this regard
Nevertheless it is interesting to read what others are doing
Not sure if it needs to say it again but here is my view
Clean the stylus in every cut Adjust Heat for every Lacquer Pre heat you lacquers or make sure they are at the same temperature as in the cutting room around the20-22 C
If you see a a difference in your cut remove the head and inspect the stylus
I have seen them with a great looking point but a bits missing from the rear of one or both of the burnishing facets
That could never be seen by the naked eye it neeeds a microscope,
besides other little nicks and hollow spots on them
The point being since we have no control of these two important items when we buy them we may as well go out of our way to control what we can within our environment or control
There would not have been an adjustable heat control if it was not deemed necessary by the lathe makers
Further
If it was the case that stylli are so "accurately" manufactured there would not have been as much control as to their height adjustment as there is available say on a VMS
The head would "swing" up and down the stylus would be driven side to side so what is the point? Ha?
Cheers
I do not know why some people take an arbitary rather than an objective view of the cutting process
There is no way that one lacquer will be the same like the next one neither is the stylus for that matter they differ from one to another
I can assure every one here that the Sapphire or the Ruby both man made stones used in stylii will have a slight variation in crystal structure hardness etc from one to another
The idea is if they do not grow as a single crystal they will not look like they do
Further the lacquer manufacturer will also do his best to provide a consistent product within a plus or minus range of specifications as to materials used in the mixture which is used in the coating
Besides the aluminium substrate will also be ground down within a specific finish and thickness all of course within a range + or - whatever that is
I do not understand when people are making a statement that goes:
This is good for so many hours or this heater setting is OK for all or any lacquers placed on the lathe for a cut
Sure the plating guys will always tell you when they got a clean or an other wise cut
In the separation process a well trained ear will tell you every time
With a clean cut acetate the form will come off like the skin of a mandarin and in a bad cut it will most likely come off like peeling the thinest skinned valencia oranges with bits of the lacquer sticking in the nickel grooves
accompanied by a rather scary noise like squeezing celophane tissue
However that is defeating the purpose
It is a bit late by than with substantial time effort as well as materials been wasted
Some of the steps already mentioned in my previous psot will go a long way in eliminating quite a lot of the uncertainty in this regard
Nevertheless it is interesting to read what others are doing
Not sure if it needs to say it again but here is my view
Clean the stylus in every cut Adjust Heat for every Lacquer Pre heat you lacquers or make sure they are at the same temperature as in the cutting room around the20-22 C
If you see a a difference in your cut remove the head and inspect the stylus
I have seen them with a great looking point but a bits missing from the rear of one or both of the burnishing facets
That could never be seen by the naked eye it neeeds a microscope,
besides other little nicks and hollow spots on them
The point being since we have no control of these two important items when we buy them we may as well go out of our way to control what we can within our environment or control
There would not have been an adjustable heat control if it was not deemed necessary by the lathe makers
Further
If it was the case that stylli are so "accurately" manufactured there would not have been as much control as to their height adjustment as there is available say on a VMS
The head would "swing" up and down the stylus would be driven side to side so what is the point? Ha?
Cheers
Chris
Hello!
(
I don´t think there is something like a final truth about cutting.
The more stimuli we get the better we can find a way of working which fits to our and our customer´s demands, to the time we are able/ready to spend with the subject and to the money we are ready to pay for it. Isn´t it?
And:
Yeah, cheers
Max
I guess these are the warm words so many athers are motivated by to write here about their way of workingI do not know why some people take an arbitary rather than an objective view of the cutting process
(I don´t think there is something like a final truth about cutting.
The more stimuli we get the better we can find a way of working which fits to our and our customer´s demands, to the time we are able/ready to spend with the subject and to the money we are ready to pay for it. Isn´t it?
And:
Yes. the stylus I had in before the one that´s engaged at the moment had to be replaced after 800 cuts.wow 200 hours! you sure its not minutes?
Yeah, cheers
Max
Last edited by Max on Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
I have had styluses that lasted an amazingly long time, as well as those that lasted only 1 or 2 cuts. Biggest problem with styli came shortly after the unfortunate Transco/Apollo merger. They were "learning" how to grind styluses and selling the results - yes, I literally had one that lasted two sides then was 'caput'... 
After about 6 months the quality finally came back and I haven't had any problems with really bad needles since, although I have noticed what Moss mentioned as well:
After about 6 months the quality finally came back and I haven't had any problems with really bad needles since, although I have noticed what Moss mentioned as well:And yes, you do need a microscope to see these flaws. But as stated, it hasn't been too bad lately and I've been getting some good long lasting styli.I have seen them with a great looking point but a bits missing from the rear of one or both of the burnishing facets
That could never be seen by the naked eye it neeeds a microscope,
besides other little nicks and hollow spots on them
Third,
St John's Wood? Abbey Road? I visited there in 1989. Very cool. Your staff gave me a very warm reception. I appreciate it!
I believe your cutting rack is an SAL-74. The mod was the SAL-74B or VG-74B (The VG didn't have the tracing simulator, which nobody uses any more anyway)
I too am impressed with MDCs but they are REALLY expensive "on this side of the pond" due to our low dollar. I was helping to distribute them here a few years ago before the dollar tanked.
I am using Adamant and Apollo here and have been getting pretty good results. It's strange that Transcos are more popular over there and Apollo over here. Must have something to do with your fresh air and our smog
We get lots of parts from your studio at RTI, where my studio, AcousTech is located. Keep up the great work! Long live Abbey Road!!!
Best,
Kev
St John's Wood? Abbey Road? I visited there in 1989. Very cool. Your staff gave me a very warm reception. I appreciate it!
I believe your cutting rack is an SAL-74. The mod was the SAL-74B or VG-74B (The VG didn't have the tracing simulator, which nobody uses any more anyway)
I too am impressed with MDCs but they are REALLY expensive "on this side of the pond" due to our low dollar. I was helping to distribute them here a few years ago before the dollar tanked.
I am using Adamant and Apollo here and have been getting pretty good results. It's strange that Transcos are more popular over there and Apollo over here. Must have something to do with your fresh air and our smog
We get lots of parts from your studio at RTI, where my studio, AcousTech is located. Keep up the great work! Long live Abbey Road!!!
Best,
Kev
Kevin Gray
Using an Apollo / Transco stylus (N320) combo here with good results. Don't see the need to change up the formula yet, although I am interested in experimenting with the Adamant styli at some point. Never used MDCs.
Josh Bonati
www.bonatimastering.com
www.bonatimastering.com
Is there any truth to these rumours I've heard about a well-produced Japanese lacquer? Also there's supposedly some exquisite Japanese pressing plant still in existence? I'm conversational in Japanese and lived in Tokyo for 1 year (back in 2001) but wasn't involved in cutting at the time so I didn't research these things. If there's anything Japanese-centric that would be of interest to cutting people I could try to suss it out when I go back to visit - perhaps in a year or so.
Josh Bonati
www.bonatimastering.com
www.bonatimastering.com
-
blacknwhite
- Posts: 483
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:57 am
- Location: US
Not to further hijack the thread from the original topic of "List of Lathes", but...
Bonati, I believe there is atleast one pressing plant in Japan.
I have bought several "new-looking" (?) Japanese re-pressings of Reggae 45's, currently being distributed in USA by Ernie B's Reggae: They look Brand New, not new old stock.
Sorry, I tried to find them to post the labels with the Japanese web address on them, but can't locate them at the moment.
Talk to Ernie B., he's a real nice guy, and responds to his emails: He'll have your answer I bet, or at least, might might give you a name to contact: I remember one label they reissued material from was "Randy's", on colored vinyl:
http://www.ebreggae.com/
- Bob
Bonati, I believe there is atleast one pressing plant in Japan.
I have bought several "new-looking" (?) Japanese re-pressings of Reggae 45's, currently being distributed in USA by Ernie B's Reggae: They look Brand New, not new old stock.
Sorry, I tried to find them to post the labels with the Japanese web address on them, but can't locate them at the moment.
Talk to Ernie B., he's a real nice guy, and responds to his emails: He'll have your answer I bet, or at least, might might give you a name to contact: I remember one label they reissued material from was "Randy's", on colored vinyl:
http://www.ebreggae.com/
- Bob
Interesting, thanks for the reply. There must be something there - they're amazing fanatics. I once stumbled into a record store in Shibuya, Tokyo, that only sold reggae 45s only from the late 70s. And every record had an index card taped to it with a paragraph description written by an employee. Best record shopping in the world. Pricey, but they had everything, and usually in mint condition.
Josh Bonati
www.bonatimastering.com
www.bonatimastering.com
Ok - I can now answer my own question (found on this forum!). This is the place:
http://www.toyokasei.com/
English website is of course small / limited. The Japanese version has a bigger pic of their cutting room:
http://www.toyokasei.co.jp/jigyou/cutting/index.html
Very nice, although confusing. They only mention one cutting room but obviously there's a second one there with a VMS80 in a smaller studio.
http://www.toyokasei.com/
English website is of course small / limited. The Japanese version has a bigger pic of their cutting room:
http://www.toyokasei.co.jp/jigyou/cutting/index.html
Very nice, although confusing. They only mention one cutting room but obviously there's a second one there with a VMS80 in a smaller studio.
Josh Bonati
www.bonatimastering.com
www.bonatimastering.com
MDC
Yep MDC is still there been for many many years run by an odd ball couple I am led to believe in they late 70's or more I have a Japanese speaking friend who deals with them when we want lacquers
Very good lacquers all hand numbered as they have done for yonks
Nice people as well but quite pricey at present that may not be however for long if they do not follow the other plant soon
There are rumors of a price hike from the Banning camp circulating at present so we better brace ourselves
It is strange that the price list has been taken down from their website not so long ago
Also I had to have a bit of a smirk on my face when I read what the vice president said at the launch of the copy cat site Vinyl Juice
Yep it seems that "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
We will find out soon enough though I am sure of that
Where there is smoke there is fire
Cheers
Very good lacquers all hand numbered as they have done for yonks
Nice people as well but quite pricey at present that may not be however for long if they do not follow the other plant soon
There are rumors of a price hike from the Banning camp circulating at present so we better brace ourselves
It is strange that the price list has been taken down from their website not so long ago
Also I had to have a bit of a smirk on my face when I read what the vice president said at the launch of the copy cat site Vinyl Juice
Yep it seems that "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
We will find out soon enough though I am sure of that
Where there is smoke there is fire
Cheers
Chris
Used to use MDC's for ages until Transco got their act together a few years back now.
MDC is too soft for my liking and does not have the same top end that a Transco has now. They were also plagued by streaking for a while, cuts were almost white.
Trying to tell them this however fell on deaf ears or ears that really didn't
understand english!
MDC's are now cheaper than Transco's in the UK, due to MDC losing their
market position.
Caveat Emptor!
MDC is too soft for my liking and does not have the same top end that a Transco has now. They were also plagued by streaking for a while, cuts were almost white.
Trying to tell them this however fell on deaf ears or ears that really didn't
understand english!
MDC's are now cheaper than Transco's in the UK, due to MDC losing their
market position.
Caveat Emptor!