Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Topics regarding professional record cutting.

Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn

Post Reply
User avatar
Retouch
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 am

Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29687Unread post Retouch
Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:22 pm

Hi, i am completely new to lathe cutting but have been sitting here behind the scenes wanting to get involved for several years. I have finally raised up enough cash to purchase a lathe and found a t560 setup complete with everything needed to get started (plus 3 days of training).

I am wondering what peoples views are on the t560? I want to cut to polycarbonate or other vinyl-like materials…not laquers. I am aware there is a steep learning curve and am totally prepared for this. I have nearly ten years experience making music and some great software in my mac for mastering so hopefully this will make things a little easier.

Thanks
Charlie

User avatar
opcode66
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29688Unread post opcode66
Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:16 pm

Do it! Are you buying one from MyShank? He has two for sale. And he can supply you with blanks and styli. Souri doesn't support secondhand machines though. So, if anything goes wrong you are on your own.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

User avatar
Retouch
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 am

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29689Unread post Retouch
Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:31 pm

Hi opcode, yeah i am planning on buying a setup from Myshank. As far as souri goes, from what i have read online and heard elsewhere, he can be very awkward and is unlikely to sell me a machine if i do not know what i am doing. So really what you are saying is a double edged sword for me haha.

Have you had experience with the t560 personally? If so, would it be possible in your opinion, once trained, to achieve a professional sound from it?

User avatar
opcode66
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29690Unread post opcode66
Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:44 pm

I dont have one. I've had cuts made on them. If you want cuts without flutter, you'll want to find another platter and motor solution. Technics were never made to cut records with. Even with the resistor mod for torque. You'll notice it on sustained sounds like key stabs. Otherwise the sound is overall ok. Of couse, your results will be entirely based on your skill level. So, dont be dounted at first. Expect to make a bunch of bad cuts and mistakes for probably the first month. Have you done any audio engineering? You have to understand how to process and correct the music before cutting it. Lathes are not cd burners....
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

User avatar
Retouch
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 am

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29691Unread post Retouch
Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:15 pm

I produce music in logic so i am able to get up to a stage where i have a good mix down but as far as mastering goes i have little to no experience. Saying that, i do have some grasp of the concepts behind it and will likely take to it very quickly. I also have a wealth of top end mastering plugins to play with.

As for the flutter, is this an issue then if i do not have those upgrades? (i will have the torque upgrade) I don't suppose you would have a file you could send me with an example of it?

User avatar
Retouch
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 am

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29692Unread post Retouch
Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:20 pm

Also maybe you could explain to me why the the technics platter doesn't have a rubber mat on it during cutting? surely that would remove flutter and other issues as it does with playback?

User avatar
opcode66
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29697Unread post opcode66
Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:57 pm

Not even close. Even if you tape the disc to the paltter.... The problem is what is referred to as Torque. The platter motor has to have a lot of torque. When you cut, you are applying a significant downward pressure to the disc. Try that with your finger on a record playing on a technics turntable. Even tape the record to the platter. What you'll notice is that it doesn't take much force to make the dots on the side of the platter no longer appear stationary. The inability of the platter motor to compensate for downward pressure on the blank results in uneven rotational speed and flutter in the playback of the audio.

I could rip a record that was made on a vinyl recorder. You could hear the flutter in it pretty badly.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

User avatar
Retouch
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 am

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29706Unread post Retouch
Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:32 am

Thanks opcode this is all very helpful. So how much would the flutter be recuced if you switched the 1210 for the motor and precision platter on souri's site?

User avatar
opcode66
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29714Unread post opcode66
Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:53 pm

Well, let me answer first by saying you can't purchase anything from Souri's site. Unless you are an original VR owner purchased from him. If you are not a sanctioned secondhand owner, then forget about anything on his site.


Now, to answer. Yes, it would significantly reduce flutter in two ways. It is a heavey, solid, flat platter. That helps to maintain speed via initia/momentum. Also, the original bldc motor in the technics is no longer used. It is replaced by a huge motor. And, the motor looks like a beast, so, high torque. That is what allow a motor to maintain speed when resistance is present.

I dont know if it is a synchronous dc or bldc. Im guessing dc. Belt driven. Personally, i prefer bldc with motor linkage and bearing system with heavey platter. At some point I will be offering full platter systems like this.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

User avatar
Retouch
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 am

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29727Unread post Retouch
Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:32 pm

Thanks. Well as i am buying second hand i guess i will have to track down someone that is "sanctioned" to buy the bits for me when the time comes.

User avatar
opcode66
Posts: 2700
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29731Unread post opcode66
Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:39 pm

Good luck with that. Most Souri users are soooo afraid of getting cut off by him that I think you will find this much more difficult than you anticipate. The best approach is to make stuff yourself from other lathes and new components.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

User avatar
Retouch
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 am

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29732Unread post Retouch
Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:27 pm

Yeah i'll take your word for it. The guy sounds like a bit of a nightmare..It's a shame.

Thanks for all your help. Appreciate it.
Charlie

User avatar
Stevie342000
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:12 pm

Re: Is the vinylrecorder t560 the way forward for me?

Post: # 29734Unread post Stevie342000
Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:59 am

Erm yes, he is a pain in the proverbial.

He stopped talking to me and refused to have any further conversation with me about 2 years ago.

At that time my knowledge level was better than most but was not enough to ward off his snubbing me.

Its probably a case of he can only produce a limited amount of machines a year or the number that produces is all that ne needs to produce for an income. he therefore restricts how many he produces and who can buy them. Only those he deems fit can buy a machine, no secondhand market support.

It is a shame as it is a really good product, what I can tell you is that if you get one it uses to the best of my knowledge a Grampian short shank cutting stylus.

Find yourself a good engineer to make parts you want.

What we need now is someone to produce a new cutting platform sort of a Frankencutter. Where those that have built a cutter head will have a modern platform to stick their heads on . With various grades (price) of head even mono cutters not just stereo. A Platter system similar to a Universal Cutting Lathe is the way to go Belt drive with electronic motor speed control.

Another Frankencutter route, is not that difficult to do there is an overhead on eBay right now overpriced but a starting point you would only need a Rek-o-kut or Gates or even the Fairchild 539 minus over head on eBay right now. In addition there is an RCA overhead cutting system as well.

See 291127011480 or 151275431349 and matched up to this 121216168178 Hope that helps

Post Reply