Modifying a Neumann SP 72 S desk

[platesrecords]

Hi guys -

I have a Neumann SP 72 S console and it had been heavily modded with very few of the original components in there [before i bought it]. It seems people rip stuff out and replace parts fairly easily with these desks.

I was wondering, if I am looking at buying some standalone eq's/compressors, maybe even effects like delay etc too - how easily I'd be able to incorporate these into the desk ? Does anyone have experience doing this kind of thing?

If so, are there any particular features or specific models I should be looking at to make this as simple as possible?

Cheers

Nick

[mossboss]

It's a hard decision in my view it's not worth it. There are far to many connections as well as a bunch of relays at the back left hand side which can become a night mare even standard they can be troublesome they are getting quite old now
The signal path goes through a lot of switched points which are relay based mostly built in the modules the push button switches are available but they are around $70-150 each and there are a lot of them
Also the sockets at the base where the modules plug in can be a pain plus the patch bay on the front left hand side, phewwww
We have two stock standard with added modules they can go for quite a while than the pack it in, than, start looking some times a five minute. Job sometimes a few days, and a lot of coffe I am talking from experience
Leave it alone unless you want to spend a small fortune or have a particular love for them
Best

[platesrecords]

Thanks for your response -I find myself agreeing with you despite my decision to undertake this! Haha

We initially were cutting using the Neumann because we didn't have anything else to use. I eventually had to put our cutting service on hold due to connections on the patch bay causing signal dropouts during cuts, and often other things going wrong to do with metering and oscilloscope not functioning etc.

You're right, there's millions of connections when you peep inside and massive room for error. Having said that I know quite a few local people who are really passionate about this desk and quite skilled at working on them, so I've been convinced to keep it [for now]

In addition, I am cutting mono currently but I have the Neumann stereo amp racks for when I get a stereo head, so it makes sense for me to hold on to the Neumann desk for that eventuality [feel free to share your opinion on that!].

Until then, I am going to try and replace the Neumann with something stable and temporary whilst i try and fix it but was wanting to think of stuff i could use long term if i go down the neumann route. Any idea what to suggest on that front?

Thanks v much mate

Nick

[petermontg]

Hi Nick,

There are plenty of Danner cassettes over at vintagetools.de

These guys come up with some random stuff from time to time so check for relay.
I am sure if the relay system is in poor nick just rip it out and replace with modern one. Plenty of relay boards around.

You will be pushed to find some of them though.

I made a little console using these A1 and used Harrison bus filter design (with some mods) for the LPF/HPF sections.

Have you an EEQ there for when you move to stereo.

Best
Peter

[platesrecords]

Hi Peter,

Thanks a lot for your reply! I've checked out the vintagetools site, some lovely looking stuff on there

My main issue is that, whilst I LOVE vintage analogue gear [I am making a start in the cutting game, after all!] , it is very problematic and costly when not working, which is my main issue with the SP 72 S right now. From a business point of view, I have customers waiting to cut, but an unreliable system which I cannot currently use simply for the cost in wasted lacquers.

I am currently rewiring and fixing wiring with the lathe and Capps computer, so the last weak link will then just be the Neumann desk - fixing the multiple issues for this is particularly taxing since I have very little engineering or electrical experience, my background is in DJing and making music, as well as some more basic studio work and of course cutting dubs. I need to be up and running [at least temporarily] to start making money back on the investment, and satisfying the customers!

Hence, my plan is to replace the Neumann with something modern and reliable [and probably not as good] , for the time being, but keep the Neumann desk for when we get a stereo head [we currently cut using a mono Presto 1D], we also have the Neumann stereo amp racks which will compliment it well once we reach that stage.

We don't have any EQs at all in the SP 72 S currently, but this is what I'm wondering really...

If I were to temporarily buy an "average" off the shelf mixing console to use whilst fixing the neumann, and some additional nice eqs and compressors to run alongside, I'm hoping these would be feasible to use within the Neumann once we go stereo.

I have uploaded a poor quality pic of our modded Neumann below - I recognise many parts from other machinery and models, any insights or thoughts would be much appreciated

http://postimg.org/gallery/n76btxvm/

**There are 2 faders [1 for speakers 1 for cutterhead], a section entitled 'cutting' which isnt used at all, and a monitoring section which selects your outputs to listen to**


Thanks again for for the help everyone!

Nick

[mossboss]

The danner cassettes is where quite a lot of the unobtainable Erni relays sit, also the selector cassette from and to, the EAO switches on one of those can run you up to about $ $600 just for one Cassette
They come up on eBay every now and than anywhere between $30-100 the relays at the back are gold plated contact at around the $180 each or you can get the low cost silver ones at around half that
It's not easy to replace the whole stack
On the later consoles they have been replaced with a rack and individual cards plugged in
At any rate already been said there is nothing so great about these consoles if they are not loaded up with the cassettes
In so far as the scope is concerned, well it ain't the greatest indicator at the best of times, besides the tube is around the $200 they do pop up again on eBay
At a cost of a good used input system a Masselec unit at around the $4-5 k beats a restoration hands down and a long way in front dollar ways
By the way the EE is used for stereo takes when you need to cut them in mono, so as to control vertical excursion, not the other way nowadays hardly used as one has sufficient tools to do any Eq required besides who ever pays a studio for mastering should make the need for an elliptical equiliser unnessecarry
Good luck with it all if you can update us in a couple of years it be good, ha

[markrob]

Hi,

If you have a 1D, then why not just use a modern audio power amp along with the Presto recommended series resistor (value found in the 1D manual). If you are looking for an all analog signal path, get one of Wayne's or Flo's preamp boards with RIAA and add any external processing/mixing needed. If you use one of these boards and a good power amp in the 100 watt range, that should give you sound quality about as good as you can get using a 1D. Note that the 1D head has the 500 Hz RIAA rolloff built in so, you'll have to disable that on either board. I'm sure they can tell you how to do that.

Mark