Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

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EpicenterBryan
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Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47196Unread post EpicenterBryan
Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:38 pm

Hey guys,
You may have noticed a Fairchild 539A posted in the classified section a while back.
I ended up buying it and since I'm 2 hours away and it didn't have to ship, I made a decent offer and got it! The original post about it is here... https://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7259

So this thread is about what I'm doing with it, what I'm discovering as I go, and any other interesting stuff as I play with it and get it working and updated the way I want.

First, I want to thank jesusfwrl for all the posts he made about his Fairchild project, and especially all the detail he went into on how the gear box (transmission) worked. That was such a big help to me! I also want to thank him for taking the time to answer some questions over the last month. Thank You Jesus!

So, here are two photos from when it was listed and when I bought it. First off, it had no head.
Fairchild 539A 028.JPG
In the second photo you see what was left of an articulating microscope mount (missing the actual microscope). It sure looked nasty / bent but there is more to this....
Fairchild 539A 033.JPG
Now we skip forward... I got the unit home, and the first thing I did (following awesome project details in posts from jesusfwrl), I removed the overhead, microscope arm and platter. And then I put the gear box into neutral so I could rotate the gear box top section and see if the overhead drive gear turned. It did. Then I put the gear box into gear, and tried turning the brass flywheel by hand. Although it did turn, it took some effort. The effort seamed reasonable, but it did take some effort.

So I opened the oil fill plug on the top of the transmission and could see ZERO oil in there. Having seen posts from jesusfwrl about the transmission, I decided to fill the transmission following details in the manual that I also found through posts on Lathetrolls. The manual discussed the correct oil level, so I made a "dip stick" such that I could measure the oil level relative to the top of the transmission as seen below:
IMG_5547.JPG
I also added oil to the motor tubes that were mentioned in the manual as well. Then I turned the brass flywheel by hand again. It seamed less effort was needed. So I threw the power switch - engaging the motor... The motor turned and bogged down, turned and bogged down, turned and bogged down. I added a little help getting the brass flywheel going, and it helped but wasn't enough.

So I went home and gave up. The next day I threw the power switch and the beast started up and ran like a Swiss watch! It seams that the oil soak into where it needed to be, and now it's super easy to rotate the brass flywheel by hand. On another note: jesusfwrl mentioned there was an oil cup on the top of the transmission. It supplied oil to the top bearing and I also filled that.
IMG_5549.JPG
Lots of updates and photos to come but I'm out of time tonight. So stay tuned!

Bryan
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47200Unread post EpicenterBryan
Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:21 am

I started looking over the the articulating microscope mount and realized the end looked like the Spencer scope that's mounted on my Presto 8D. So I remove the microscope head from the Presto and did a quick test fit on the Fairchild arm and it fit! So I got on Ebay, and bought a Spencer table top style microscope to get the head. While I was waiting for it to arrive I cleaned up the Fairchild scope arm and re-painted it to match the lathe.
IMG_5598.JPG
The scope arrived. But the box was trashed and there was a little note from the post office on it. The box rattled with the sound of broken glass.
IMG_5596.JPG
I opened the box to find lots of broken glass. Thankfully it was just a box of specimen slides and the scope was in-tact. Yes, I picked out a black one to match the lathe.
IMG_5597.JPG
And here is the completed scope (less lighting) ready to mount!
IMG_5599.JPG
More to come...
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47201Unread post EpicenterBryan
Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:49 am

I started looking at what it was going to take to mount my Presto 1D head since the lathe did not come with a Farichild head. When I removed the head cradle, I discovered the mounting bolt was bent but also the entire cradle was tweaked to the right. It looks like that took a hit at some point.
IMG_5618.JPG
There was one listed on E-bay and so I purchased it. It turns out a fellow LatheTroll had it for sale. As I looked closer at what it was going to take to make the original cradle work, I've decided I'm going to end up making something or buying one from jesusfwrl. One of the big issues is that the Fairchild head pivoted on the two mounting holes on the side of the cradle and that was used for setting the cutting angle. There is not much room in there to make some kind of bracket that wraps around the 1D so those mounting holes can be used.
IMG_5622.JPG
I started looking at how the gear drive for the overhead was setup, and although jesusfwrl has set his up with an external gear motorl, I have another idea I want to play with. So when I saw the same troll who sold me the cradle also had a set of gears, I decided to buy them to play with. I'm glad I did since my gear set was missing the one for 161 pitch.
gear 1.jpg
More to come...
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47202Unread post EpicenterBryan
Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:01 pm

Yesterday, a friend told me that a local recycler was having a warehouse sale and that they usually have some interesting junk. I ended up buying a few things.

What I was really excited to find was this rolling AV cabinet. It looked like it might work and was very solid. It had both front and rear locking doors and adjustable shelves too. I asked them how much. They said $2! Yes, that's right... $2. And my dog likes it too.
IMG_5611.JPG
I measured 3 times and cut once. The Fairchild fits!
IMG_5614.JPG
How awesome is this? And there is storage space too!
What makes it even more cool is that the height at the top of the scope is 4 foot, making it just about ideal for me.
IMG_5615.JPG
Bryan
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47204Unread post Gridlock
Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:50 pm

"shoulda used more tape" congrats Bryan that looks great
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47211Unread post EpicenterBryan
Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:54 pm

I had a quick exchange with jesusfwrl about the motor capacitor as a possible issue when it looked like there was not enough start torque. I know this photo won't make sense to many, but yes, this lathe does have a Bodine motor and the capacitor is next to it. I'll see if I can read the model number next time I'm in there. You also see a 2 terminal strip with a red and black wire. That leads to some other wires including a 500 ohm resistor and a 1uf capacitor parallel and inline with a connector for the original 541 head. That separate terminal strip was precariously close to the AC input terminal strip for the motor and has been removed.
IMG_5612.JPG
Does anyone out there know this mystery block is (which I have removed) or what it's for. It's above the power switch on this lathe and below the right side of the overhead where the gear drive engages. Once removed, I found that it only has a pin facing up, and a hole facing down. Neither the pin nor the hole actually go through face of the lathe. Below this block are only the two threading holes for the screws that hold it down. At first I thought it might be a holder for the removable pin for Master Lacquers that have an index hole, but the other empty hole is also a mystery. Perhaps as a holder for a spare stylus? The pin does not remove, and the hole is way too big for a stylus holder.

What is it?
IMG_5613.JPG
While I'm at it, here is a shot of what came out relating to what Fairchild called "Equalizer (C541-B1)". It's an RC network for the intended head. This consists of the terminal strip that would have connected to the output of the driving amplifier, and connector for the Fairchild head, and a mounting block for the resistor and capacitor.
IMG_5624.JPG
I also removed stuff related to the 6.3 volt power for the microscope lighting. When I saw masking tape wrapped around the AC wiring, I said "oh, hell no". I'll do my own lighting thank you. Now I have a spare switch location...

There was also a mystery terminal strip with an RC connected to nothing. The funny thing is that there was a wire shorting out the RC anyway. I have no clue what that was all about.
IMG_5625.JPG

That's it for tonight...

Bryan
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47384Unread post EpicenterBryan
Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:26 pm

Lots of progress this month!
First a few random things...

Picked up this hot stylus supply made by Capps for the Fairchild. Nothing more than an AC transformer with a rheostat and a current meter, but looks awesome.
CAPPS.jpg
I mentioned that the "Adapter" shown as item 8 in the photo below was tweaked, and that the bolt (item 9 was bent). I was also missing the item marked as 2 (cutterhead adapter adjusting screw). And yes, I'm missing everything relating to item 7 (cutterhead angle adjusting knob) including the bracket that would attach to the Fairchild head.
overhead parts.jpg
First things first: I had a machinist make a new attaching bolt (item 9), and since most of the cost was in setting up, I had him make a spare which I planned to offer for sale. It already looks like there is another troll that needs that... The one on the right is the bent one, the two on the left are the new ones. The machinist even cut the screw slot in the end of the bolt like original.
IMG_5658.JPG
The next thing was to try to find something that would work for item 2 (adapter adjusting screw). That proved to be really hard to find. The issue is that it's an odd thread. It's a 6-40. Most size 6 screws are 32 thread. It also needed to be about 1.5" - 2" long. I would have even settled for "all thread" and would have glued a knob on the end but I couldn't even find a threaded rod - not even on the net. Then I wanted a spring, and decided one from a ball point pen worked fine. What I ended up with was some 2" and some 2.5" for good measure. Minimum orders you know...
IMG_5659.JPG
More in the Next Post...
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47385Unread post EpicenterBryan
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:54 pm

As I was messing around getting a feel for things and the motor was running, I heard a growling sound and immediately shut down. Upon inspection, I discovered that one of the lead screw direction reversing gears froze solid. In the photo below, the left one is frozen, the right one can be wiggled back and forth (they mesh).
IMG_5661.JPG
Those gears can not be removed and thankfully I had purchased a complete spare gear set, so I have a replacement!
gear 1.jpg
While inspecting the gears, I decided to remove the gear that was on the lead screw to see what pitch it was and it was stuck solid on the shaft. There is a pin that keeps it from turning on the shaft onece fully installed, but it should have been able to be pulled right off. I got it past the locking pin but that was it. So I removed the entire lead screw and eventually worked the gear off. The end of the shaft where the gear goes had several high spots. Another gear could not be installed. Once I used 600 grit sand paper to clean up the end of the shaft, a new gear slid on and off fine, but the one I removed was galled inside and would no longer go on the shaft. So I rolled up some 600 grit and spun it around inside the gear until it went on and off with no issues.

While I had the lead screw out I cleaned and re-packed the bearing. What a difference. Nice and quiet operation. Once everything was back in I noticed a slight wobble right of center on the lead screw - before the threads actually start. I measured it with a dial indicator as it rotated and I saw a 0.004" variation. Not a happy camper here, but not sure if it matters yet. It looks like the lead screw also took a hit when the other stuff got bent. I'll have to dive into this stuff as I get further along. And yes, now I need to check the 2 main rails on the overhead.

I've made great progress on the entire head mount and should have it done by this weekend. Then I need to make a decision: Do I float the head and go the dash pot direction, or start working out the advance ball path...

I'm leaning toward the dash pot route. To that end, I picked up a package deal on some AirPots. Nice range of sizes in this batch. Three of them dampen in 1 direction only, the rest are both ways. The one way units may be useful later for automated up / down since they would drop slowly and raise quickly. The rest would react like a Presto oil dash pot.
IMG_5655.JPG
Now it's time to show some progress on the head mounting adapter and such:

First off, I took the tweaked head mount cage and had 1/4" milled off the bottom, and extended the notch area for clearance of other parts as you will see later. Then had 2 bottom mounting holes drilled and tapped for 5mm screws.

That's actually an optical illusion. The clearance area is actually milled ruler flat.
IMG_5642.JPG
More on the next post:
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47386Unread post EpicenterBryan
Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:08 pm

Now for the "make it work" part of the post tonight:

Below is a two piece 3D printed prototype version similar to the final aluminum version. These two parts connect together with a common bolt / nut and form and adjustable hinge which mounts from under the modified head carrier. Then the Presto head mounts to this...
IMG_5643.JPG
Once the Presto 1D is attached and this hinge is mounted to the carrier, it looks like this:
IMG_5648.JPG
And can adjust in either direction from vertical as below:
The adjustments shown here are extreme, and would never actually be needed but it works that way.
IMG_5649.JPG
IMG_5647.JPG
More on next post:
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47387Unread post EpicenterBryan
Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:48 pm

And here is the last part of the post for tonight...

This is what the final aluminum version will look like. Another guy I know will be welding this in the am, so I'm crossing my fingers. It will actually be welded from the bottom. I made a jig to hold and align everything upside down and didn't take a photo of that.
IMG_5660.JPG
Once the second guy saw what I was up to, he said "why didn't you just incorporate the tubes directly into the two parts"? I said, "I thought it would be easier this way. Two custom parts, two standard spacers and a little welding. How could those rounded sections have been machined?" He handed me a bit and said "with one of these".
cornerroundem.jpg
And I said "That looks like a router bit for rounding the edge of a table top!". Exactly.... Yes, exactly.

So the moral of the story is that if you have the ability to make a prototype showing how you want it to work, let the machinist figure out exactly how to make it reality.

Mic drop here...
Thank You Lathe Trolls, and Thank You Machinists across the world for translating ideas into METAL!
8mZOYGFJ.jpg
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47423Unread post EpicenterBryan
Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:33 pm

More progress...
The aluminum version of the hinge bracket worked out great. Here it's shown along with the AirPot (dash pot). I decided to attach the dashpot directly to the Carriage mechanism so the head adapter could be raised and lowered for stylus changes without detaching the dashpot. Right now, the bracket for the end of the dash pot is plastic but I'll be making that in aluminum.
IMG_5690.JPG
IMG_5694.JPG
Once I removed the time scale I found a handy spot where I could attach a block for mounting the dashpot bracket. So I printed something up and used 2 set screws to attach the block to the carriage. There is some extra room up there for clamping the head wires as well. At some point I might make an aluminum version of the block for the carriage.
IMG_5692.JPG
And here is a side view of the dashpot.
IMG_5693.JPG
That's it for today.

Bryan
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 47434Unread post EpicenterBryan
Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:44 pm

For fun, the guy that did the welding on my aluminum bracket actually used my alignment jig and returned it.
The jig was milled manually on my Enco, out of some scrap bamboo flooring from my house remodel several years ago. I didn't expect it to hold up quite this well. But TIG welding is pretty fast I guess... He made a little change at the bottom to run a rod through the aluminum spacers and used a Dremell. That was not burned from the welding process...
IMG_5696.JPG
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 48540Unread post EpicenterBryan
Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:05 pm

Hey guys - long time no post.
I started messing with the lathe again a few weeks ago. A little here, a little there.
I wanted to figure out what RPM was needed for specific LPI. So the first thing to do was to measure my lead screw.
If found it's a 32 pitch.

My lathe came with 4 interchangeable gears. Each gear was marked. However, two of the gears were marked 161 and they were obviously different sizes.
IMG_5813.JPG
I looked at the manual and the gears should be: 98, 118, 141, 161. So my gut said the smaller of the ones marked 161 was actually 141. Anyway, I found a formula on one of the other posts as below and I calculated what the RPM should be for each pitch. [1 minute / (Disc LPI / Disc RPM)] * Screw pitch = Screw RPM

Then I decided to come up with a way to install each gear and measure the actual RPM. First, I printed a "drive dog" that would go over the end of an installed gear. Not the most beautiful print but it worked. That went into a flexible coupler and on the other end, the encoder was attached. I had the wrong size coupler so had to build up the shaft on the encoder with tape. It may not have allowed it to be perfectly centered but it worked.
IMG_5810.JPG
Then I made a new plate for the side of the over head to mount a 1000 line optical encoder, and an adapter plate to mount to rubber issolators. It looked like this:
IMG_5811.JPG
Now I was able to make measurements and compare to the calculated values. The encoder and plate could be removed, the next gear installed and so on until I checked them all. The numbers moved around a little but were very close to calculated. Perhaps when the new coupler arrives I'll make a nicer drive dog too.

So here were the calculated RPMs and the measured RPM's:
For 161 LPI
[1 minute /( 161 / 33.33333)] * 32 = 6.62525 RPM.
Measured: 6.62250

For 141 LPI
[1 minute / (141/ 33.33333)] * 32 = 7.56501 RPM
Measured: 7.56000

For 118 LPI
[1 minute / (118/ 33.33333)] * 32 = 9.03955 RPM
Measured: 9.03750

For 98 LPI
[1 minute / (98/ 33.33333)] * 32 = RPM 10.88435
Measured: 10.88250
Fairchild LPI RPM.jpg
The next step was to look at what would be needed for lead in / out and between tracks.
I ran across some specs that look like this:
Lead in: 16-32
lead out: 2 - 6
Between tracks: 16

For 16LPI
[1 minute / (16 / 33.33333)] * 32 = 66.6666 RPM

For 4LPI:
[1 minute / (4 / 33.33333)] * 32 = 266.6666RPM

For the fist attempt I decided to use a stepper motor with a 5.18181818 :1 gear box. That's an odd number. It's actually 5 and 2/11ths to one. I planed to use a 50,000 step per rev low emission microstepping drive. I did some testing from so slow I could barely see the shaft moving - 0.02250RPM (47,407LPI) to damn fast 69.45PRM (16.55LPI). Clearly I don't need to go anywhere near the low end but down there the thing is totally silent. On the upper end - not a chance I would hit 4LPI with the gear reduction in place and clearly gearbox / motor noise was an issue but not nearly as much as one would expect. Anyway, I'm going to check things without gear reduction next.
IMG_5815.JPG
I will also be using a short segment of silicon tubing to further isolate the motor shaft from the lead screw. That should arrive in a week or so.

That's it for tonight.

Bryan
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 48541Unread post jjwharris
Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:00 pm

Hi Bryan,

Have you had a look at the TMC2100 stepper drivers?

I was having issues with stepper noise, then I replaced my driver boards with those and man, I was amazed at how silent it became.
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 48557Unread post EpicenterBryan
Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:02 pm

jjwharris wrote:Have you had a look at the TMC2100 stepper drivers?
I looked at them yesterday. Interesting. But I already have 3 spare LE drives sitting around from a previous project. They look like below. The front cover comes off to expose dip switches where you set motor current, number of steps per rev and such. These do 50,000 steps per rev with a standard 1.8 degree stepper. I like these because they have a built in power supply and a standard DB25 to connect to indexers. You can find used ones on E-bay pretty cheap these days.
NEW-PARKER-LE57-83-COMPUMOTOR-SERVO-DRIVE-LE5783-191930981855-580x513.jpg
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 48876Unread post EpicenterBryan
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:04 pm

Here is a quick update on the Fairchild project.

Lots of progress, but still missing a few key components. Right now I'm still missing the "One Way Bearings" (discussed later) and the "Thrust Bearings". I'm also missing both the flexible shaft coupler ( 1/4" to 6mm) and the even more flexible silicone tubing of the correct size to mate with both shafts. I might use that if it fits really tight...

I'm also missing the actual MXL belts I planned to use, but I'm running O-Rings as belts to get on with testing. The O-ring is actually working really well so I might just use something like that. Here is a photo of my MXL belt prototype I made so I knew how many teeth were needed. I ordered several sizes around this prototype. The belt was "tacked" in place over a pulley so it could be glued and teeth counted... The idea worked well but I would never trust a home made belt like this.
IMG_5862.JPG
The next issue was the "one way bearings" had not arrived. So here is the deal, I'm using a 6mm main shaft to interconnect to the 1/4" lead screw shaft on the lathe. I needed some "one way bearings" (I'll go over later) to interface with the 6mm shaft, and the outside diameter of those bearings is 10mm. So I order a bunch of 10mm inner diameter pulleys that the "one way bearings" could be inserted into to mate with the main shaft. Since those have not arrived yet, I had pulleys that couldn't clamp on the shaft. So I printed some 10mm to 6mm plastic adapters so I could at-least clamp the pulley on the shaft. It's not perfectly centered but works for now - but doesn't perform the "One Way" function...
IMG_5868.JPG
Let me show you where I am tonight. First off, the step motor has been replaced with a 0.9 degree ( 400 step per rev) motor. That combined with a micro-stepping motor drive set for 50,000 per rev (for a 200 step for rev motor) , results in 100,000 steps per rev. Smooth like a baby's bottom! More on this later....

Here is what the mechanism looks like as mounted:
IMG_5863.JPG
IMG_5864.JPG
So let's look at what is shown. First off, there is a new aluminum plate that replaces the original steel side plate on the Fairchild. The plate has counter sunk holes on the back side for the first set of rubber Cylindrical Vibration Isolators to attach. The next 3D printed plate has a 6mm shaft bearing installed. That plate is then further shock isolated to the next plate which mounts the motor and belt tensioner There is a final plate with shaft bearing which again is isolated from the previous plate. That's where the manual LPI over-ride hand wheel is attached.
IMG_5866.JPG
IMG_5867.JPG
That's all the time I have tonight, but will back fill with some great info tomorrow....

Bryan
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socialroots
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 48890Unread post socialroots
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:22 am

Wow, you never fail to impress me with your innovative solutions to problems, your wealth of knowledge n experience is mind blowing for someone like me! The addition of the hand crank to overide the motor makes me wanna have that on my rek o kut m12 overhead , which doesnt have one, but I almost always secretly wanted a hand crank so I can do lead ins and outs, spacing between tracks. So I gotta ask , has someone actually modded a rek o kut m12 with a hand crank before? I know you could come up with a solution Brian and probably find the task pretty straight forward n easy, but has anyone else following this thread done it with a rek o kut m12?
Gotta find a way to put on one of those dapshops you are using as well, thanx for sharing so much info Brian.
Patrick
p.s been awhile since youve posted about cutterheads, but by the looks of it , your plate is very full! The Fairchild is gonna cut like its never cut before, looking amazing already, cant wait to see the finished workover

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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 49241Unread post EpicenterBryan
Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:41 pm

socialroots wrote:So I gotta ask , has someone actually modded a rek o kut m12 with a hand crank before? I know you could come up with a solution Brian and probably find the task pretty straight forward n easy, but has anyone else following this thread done it with a rek o kut m12?
Hi Patrick. I don't think you got a response from people about this... I'm sure things can be done but I don't have any specifics on Rek-O-Cut stuff. If you could send me a parts diagram I'll take a look.

Oh, and thanks for the other nice comments you made ;)

BTW, lots of changes on the mechanical stuff. Will do an update on that in a future post. Right now, I'm waiting for one belt to arrive since my home-made / glued belt broke while testing... and I needed some 1mm shims.

Bryan

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Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 49289Unread post EpicenterBryan
Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:15 pm

Hey guys, I decided to do a video update on this project and I made this public on my YouTube channel.
So here you go....

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socialroots
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:33 pm
Location: Dulan village,Taitung,Taiwan

Re: Bryan's Fairchild 539A lathe project

Post: # 49290Unread post socialroots
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:20 pm

Epic! Solutions,finding solutions,your projects are always inspirational,but youve raised the bar waaay to high for me on this Fairchild project! Go down to Mexico and relax Brian...you deserve it if thats what how you spend your weekends. Big shout out from Taiwan.
Maximum respect,
Patrick

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