Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Turntables, tonearms, preamps, amps, cables, monitor speakers. What do you use to play back your one-off dubplates or pressed records? (related topics, too.)

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Kipco
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Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26079Unread post Kipco
Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:01 pm

Hello All!

I'm a newbie here, so I hope I'm in the right place to ask what I'm about to ask.

I have recently acquired a collection of Soundscriber dictation discs. The discs are all vintage radio broadcasts. The first few I've pulled out are all dated 1947. They are marked with grease pencil with show title and date recorded. I have compared a number of them with the Old Time Radio Researchers database list and I am finding shows that the OTR community considers "lost". It's my belief that this could be a very significant find and could very contain the only recordings in the world of some of these shows.

Here's my dilemma; I'm having one hell of a time getting them to play back without problems!

I've tried several turntables and keep coming up with the same problem; they don't want to play through following the natural groove line. They get stuck and play the same groove over and over, they jump grooves quite frequently sometimes several grooves at a time. I've tried adding weight to the tonearm which doesn't help, and in some cases makes the problem worse. It's almost as if the stylus is too large for the groove, or the original groove wasn't cut deep enough because the tonearm tends to skate across the record surface very easily. I have only used a standard microgroove stylus tip, never a wide 78rpm/pre-1955 transcription size.

I have managed to find one player that will play them with minimal problems, a Panasonic SG-338 portable but the amp in it is bad. I'm looking into getting that one fixed because they seem to fetch $100 and upwards on the resale market.

I'm looking for advice, tips, suggestions, whatever help you folks can offer because these discs MUST be preserved, but they're not making it easy for me!

Thanks in advance!

Kipco
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markrob
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26086Unread post markrob
Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:26 pm

Hi,

They don't track well because they were embossed (rather than cut) with a conical stylus. The groove geometry that is created is U shaped rather than V shaped. This tends to make a typical modern microgroove stylus track poorly. One possible option would be to try a 78 stylus (3 mil tip rather than 1mil). It might also work to play these back at a slower speed (16 rpm) and use some software to bring them back to pitch.

Of course, the easiest thing to do would be to get hold of an actual Soundscriber and play the discs back on that. They show up often on eBay. The good news is they used magnetic pickups that don't typically go bad, so as long as the mechanics are good, you can easily connect the pickup directly (bypassing the old electronics) to a modern magnetic phono input and get usable results.

Mark

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Kipco
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26103Unread post Kipco
Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:51 pm

Thank you for the response, Mark. I recalled seeing an advisory against using 3 mil stylus tips on Soundscriber discs because of the potential to damage the grooves because the original groove was so much smaller. Are there conular tipped 1 mil styluses available?

At your suggestion I tried using the 3 mil on a couple of different turntables with no major success. While there was a slight improvement, I still have issues with skating and groove sticking. The trouble seemed to be in finding just the right tone arm weight because on these particular tables they are still too light with the counterweight all the way forward and too heavy with the counterweight completely off. I even tried the old "coins" method of adding weight but to no avail.

I also tried the 16rpm method which would probably bear some fruit, except the only turntable I have with a 16rpm speed does not have a 3 mil tip, but I'm going to try to get one for it and see if that works.

Therefore, it would appear my next options should be getting the portable fixed or locate an original Soundscriber machine and see if it can't be restored or modified to do this.

Thanks for the insight. It did give me some information I didn't have before to take with me going forward with this adventure.

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opcode66
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26104Unread post opcode66
Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:18 pm

Dumb question. Did you try setting your tonearm heavier via the counterweight? And mess with Anti-Skating setting?
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Kipco
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26108Unread post Kipco
Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:38 pm

Yes, I have tried to adjust the counterweight, but even with it all the way forward on the end of the tonearm shaft, it's just a hair too light. The turntable I use is an older Acoustic Research that has been modified to accommodate 16 inch transcription discs and has no anti-skate adjustment option. The other turntables I have tried have fixed counterweights that are not adjustable.

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opcode66
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26118Unread post opcode66
Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:04 pm

Do what turtablists do... Tape a penny or a nickel to the top of the headshell. That will keep the tonearm from jumping for sure.
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Kipco
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26120Unread post Kipco
Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:26 pm

I've already tried the coins on the tonearm trick but it didn't help. It makes it too heavy and actually makes the tracking and skating problems worse!

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13yo
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26126Unread post 13yo
Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:43 am

have you checked to see if the disc is cut inside out

_m

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Steve E.
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26147Unread post Steve E.
Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:34 am

markrob wrote:Of course, the easiest thing to do would be to get hold of an actual Soundscriber and play the discs back on that.
Mark
ding ding ding ding ding!

What is the rpm of a soundscriber?

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Kipco
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26148Unread post Kipco
Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:50 am

13yo wrote:have you checked to see if the disc is cut inside out

_m
I did...it isn't.

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Kipco
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26149Unread post Kipco
Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 am

Steve E. wrote:
markrob wrote: Of course, the easiest thing to do would be to get hold of an actual Soundscriber and play the discs back on that.
Mark
ding ding ding ding ding!

What is the rpm of a soundscriber?

I haven't ruled out going the original machine route but I'm trying other options along the way.

Soundscribers play at 33 1/3. One option I'm presently exploring is using a turntable I have that has a 16 rpm speed and then changing the pitch digitally. But, the stylus that is on it now is microgroove only and still has tracking probs. I'm thinking a 3 mil stylus with this setup might do the trick. Stay tuned...

Thanks everyone for the input and any further suggestions will be most welcomed!

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tragwag
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 26567Unread post tragwag
Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:11 am

have you looked at the grooves under a microscope?
that might help determine your playback issue, so you can compensate, regardless of the system
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recordboy
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 27761Unread post recordboy
Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:51 am

Great thread!!! I love this forum!!!!

I just got one of the machines now too, and am curious... could one change the stylus on this
to a non conical stylus?
Cheers,
recordboy

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grooveguy
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 28135Unread post grooveguy
Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:14 pm

The Soundscriber was an interesting product. Used as intended, as a dictating and business/transcribing machine, it did a great job. However, the discs can be hard to play on an ordinary turntable because the original machines 'tracked' the playback arm across the disc in the same manner as we cutters are used to having the lathe move the recording head across the blank lacquer master. Edison used this same technique with both their cylinders and Diamond Disc reproducers.

So the Soundscriber disc grooves did not have to move the pickup from outside to inside, like a conventional disc record. The playback cartridge was moved to just about where it should be to play back at any particular point, an only had to provide minimal compliance to keep it centered on the groove.

By adding weight to your playback cartridge you only run the risk of deforming the groove. Use the anti-skating adjustment to best advantage, as suggested above, and do use a 3-mil, 78 r.p.m. tip.

Remember: The embossing process throws-up "horns" on either side of the groove. To the playback stylus, these horns have the appearance of a second, very shallow groove alongside the real one. Make sure that you are playing the original embossed groove, and that your playback stylus is not "riding the horns."

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tape
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 28726Unread post tape
Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:13 am

must admit that I never had any problem tracking various soundscriber discs - I'm using a technics 1210
antiskating and weight adjustments are needed though.
As grooveguy mentions you could in fact be listening to the horns instead of the actual groove
gives a highly distorted sound!

another factor regarding the discs besides the u shape is that the grooves are much closer to each other than normal
the soundsciber uses 'constant groove velocity' a concept I somehow can't get my mind to understand:-)
it allows up to something like 10 minutes of sound on a 4" disc!!

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tape
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Re: Soundscriber Disc Playback Troubles...HELP!

Post: # 28727Unread post tape
Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:15 am

also: there is of course a possiblity that the discs you are trying to track has been embossed with a dulled needle or not enough weight
try some other turntables / pick ups - that would be my suggestion

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