One for All the Math Geniuses

Turntables, tonearms, preamps, amps, cables, monitor speakers. What do you use to play back your one-off dubplates or pressed records? (related topics, too.)

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diamone
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One for All the Math Geniuses

Post: # 29489Unread post diamone
Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:23 pm

Guy I know is an amateur filmmaker.
The scene he's shooting involves a depressed man who walks into his apartment and the Mama Cass record he started when he left earlier is still playing - and sticking in the groove.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSu_irpykNo

No-one else
Will ever love you


plays over and over and over until he shoots himself in the head - whereupon the record gets out of being stuck and continues on with

The way I do-o-o-....

He's also a stickler for detail, into vinyl and wants to know where on the record he should place the tonearm so that he can act like it's `sticking' in the groove and the revolutions will match.

If there's no revolution on a 12-inch record that's close enough to match, he's open to having the guy be a retired radio DJ and using a 16-inch record.
2 Kinds of Men/Records: Low Noise & Wide Range. LN is mod. fidelity, cheap, & easy. WR is High Fidelity & Abrasive to its' Environment. Remember that when you encounter a Grumpy Engineer. (:-D)

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markrob
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Re: One for All the Math Geniuses

Post: # 29499Unread post markrob
Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:29 pm

Hi,

Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't matter where on the record you are. One revolution at 33.33 RPM is 1.8 seconds, so the phrase would have to be exactly that long to repeat once each revolution. Just like a locked grove. If the phrase does not fit in this way, you would have to have the platter spin at a faster or slower speed to make it match the length of the phrase. I assume he would digitally create the skipping loop and decide in advance the number of repeats before allowing the tune to continue.

Mark

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diamone
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Re: One for All the Math Geniuses

Post: # 29504Unread post diamone
Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:39 pm

I was just curious because in almost every instance I have ever seen a record skipping on a movie or TV show - the revolutions never match on a closeup.
markrob wrote:If the phrase does not fit in this way, you would have to have the platter spin at a faster or slower speed to make it match the length of the phrase.
I guess I was tired when I wrote that - cuz we were discussing fixed-pitch and variable-pitch and disc times for the various versions of each (96, 110, 135, 160 - very few LPs or 45's went beyond 160 in the classic vinyl days of the 50s and 60's - which is why they came up with variable pitch in the first place).

I always thought the paths were longer near the edge of the record than in the center - but on a CAV system like an LP - you're right - that would only give an increase or decrease in fidelity rather than time as on a CLV system like on a CD. So 1.8 x2 would equal 3.6 - almost long enough - and just use 16 RPM.
markrob wrote:I assume he would digitally create the skipping loop and decide in advance the number of repeats before allowing the tune to continue.
Yep - including the thump from the record skipping - several of which are available on any number of sound effects CDs. Just drop one inbetween the loops and you got it.
2 Kinds of Men/Records: Low Noise & Wide Range. LN is mod. fidelity, cheap, & easy. WR is High Fidelity & Abrasive to its' Environment. Remember that when you encounter a Grumpy Engineer. (:-D)

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Kiss the Groove
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Re: One for All the Math Geniuses

Post: # 29540Unread post Kiss the Groove
Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:52 pm

He's also a stickler for detail, into vinyl ...
And he's not going to be bothered by seeing the disc spinning at half speed?

Just sayin'... KtG

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diamone
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Re: One for All the Math Geniuses

Post: # 29548Unread post diamone
Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:56 pm

Kiss the Groove wrote:And he's not going to be bothered by seeing the disc spinning at half speed?
Not if we use one of those specially-made Allied Artists 16-RPM records that got made all the way into the 80's for restaurants and malls who didn't want to go to tape or CD yet.

I think you can count the collectors of those on two hands - none of whom has ever made a track list of any of those - which were produced a few per month for like 30 years - and contained any number of commercially-available music from all the major labels - and a few minor ones as well - so maybe like three old dork men in the US would know which track was on which album. Especially if we shoot it in such a way that the album number is not visible.

That's NOT counting the far more readily available ``regular'' Seeburg or Rowe or CustoMusic nine inch 16 RPM's with the two inch holes that contained proprietarily-recorded covers of all the hits of the day - which also were made from the mid 50's into the mid 80's
2 Kinds of Men/Records: Low Noise & Wide Range. LN is mod. fidelity, cheap, & easy. WR is High Fidelity & Abrasive to its' Environment. Remember that when you encounter a Grumpy Engineer. (:-D)

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Jesus H Chrysler
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Re: One for All the Math Geniuses

Post: # 29574Unread post Jesus H Chrysler
Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:46 pm

how about this for a solution: have it play" no one else will ever love you" and skip on "ever love you (pop) ever love you (pop) ever love you".....etc until (gunshot) "the way I do" I think it'd be pretty close to a 33 rpm skip and have the intended effect.

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diamone
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Re: One for All the Math Geniuses

Post: # 29577Unread post diamone
Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:16 pm

Or `No one else ----will ever love you'' and skip backwards on ``no one else'---no one else----no one else... (GUNSHOT) and then skip OVER `will ever love you' and go on to `the way I doooo.'

Dunno which would have the better effect. We might film all three versions and see what works best on the screen. Sometimes you can't tell til you get it up on the wall thirty feet high what works and what don't.
2 Kinds of Men/Records: Low Noise & Wide Range. LN is mod. fidelity, cheap, & easy. WR is High Fidelity & Abrasive to its' Environment. Remember that when you encounter a Grumpy Engineer. (:-D)

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