Finally I got a record lathe.

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the_ducktail
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:08 am

Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 26125Unread post the_ducktail
Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:34 pm

Dear Markrob: Im glad to say that record cutter is working at right speeds with the power inverter and the power supply :) now during the week I will try my first recording.
best regards to all of you trolls.

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the_ducktail
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 26578Unread post the_ducktail
Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:08 am

Dear All and Markrob:

I follow your instructions and I do as following:

I got the record cutter working at right speeds
I grab a receiver 100watts
I connect some audio source to the receiver and check the output with an AC voltmeter (2 or 3 Volts MAX)
I connect the cables from the speakers to the head checking the output for no more than 2 or 3 volts MAX
I heard some music coming out from the head so as I felt vibrations from the stylus with my finger tip
I do some recording in a record

1st try: I obtained some very low or unaudible sound on the record, so I applied more power to the output and rise it to average 3volts
2nd try: I obtained some music but very low volume.

I got some ideas...
there is not enough output power (but I dont want to blow the head)
the stylus is not the appropiate one (steel)
the record is not new (was a recordio disc but with some small scratches)

Can somebody help me? regards.-

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studiorp
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 26579Unread post studiorp
Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:25 am

Why only 2-3 volts ? Which head do you use ?

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markrob
Posts: 1623
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Location: Philadelphia Area

Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 26580Unread post markrob
Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:55 am

the_ducktail wrote:Dear All and Markrob:

I follow your instructions and I do as following:

I got the record cutter working at right speeds
I grab a receiver 100watts
I connect some audio source to the receiver and check the output with an AC voltmeter (2 or 3 Volts MAX)
I connect the cables from the speakers to the head checking the output for no more than 2 or 3 volts MAX
I heard some music coming out from the head so as I felt vibrations from the stylus with my finger tip
I do some recording in a record

1st try: I obtained some very low or unaudible sound on the record, so I applied more power to the output and rise it to average 3volts
2nd try: I obtained some music but very low volume.

I got some ideas...
there is not enough output power (but I dont want to blow the head)
the stylus is not the appropiate one (steel)
the record is not new (was a recordio disc but with some small scratches)

Can somebody help me? regards.-
Hi,

What type of meter are you using to monitor the voltage to the head (VU, Digital meter, etc)? I would suggest starting out using a 1Khz sine wave as the source material as it is very easy to measure with any meter and equates easily to RMS power based on the voltage you read across the head (2.83Vac RMS = 1 watt RMS). For most moving iron heads, this should get you in the ballpark of 5cm/sec recorded velocity (a decent reference level). Are you trying to cut or emboss? What type of media are you working with? I would suggest that you start out with some fresh lacquers, and a good sapphire stylus. Cut rather than emboss. This is the easiest way to get started (not the lowest cost). Once you get this under control, you can move to other methods/media. I would also start out by cutting a silent groove (no audio drive to the head). This will help you get used to setting up the proper head tilt, groove width (pressure) and learn what a good chip looks and sounds like. You should be able to tell if you are doing the right thing by listening to the silent cut as it is being done. If you hear and hissing, flutter or other noise, you do not have things setup properly. It should seem like cutting butter when you have the setup dialed in properly. Cut a short section of silence (20 or 30 seconds max to save space on the valuable lacquer) and then playback the cut on a good turntable/stereo . The result should be noise free. You may hear mechanical noise like rumble or motor in the cut. This is a good indication of how well mechanical vibration is suppressed on your lathe. Look at the cut groove and learn to estimate the wight/depth of cut. You can get in the ballpark by using a eye loupe and comparing to a commercial record. Once you have this under control, try cutting some 1Khz tone at 2.83Vac RMS measured at the head. I would use a digital meter for this as they are typically pretty accurate at this frequency. This should playback cleanly (low distortion) and at a decent level. If you have a test record with a 1Khz reference tone, you can get an idea of where you head stands in terms of level. If you aren't able to cut a decent 1Khz tone, then you have problems with your signal chain or the head. You can rule out the signal chain if you connect a speaker in place of the head and monitor the sound. If its clean, then your head is suspect. Hope this helps.

Mark

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studiorp
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 26581Unread post studiorp
Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:22 am

Have you checked if the armature of your head has been centered perfectly ?
Then check too the gum inside the head, could be gone in the years...

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the_ducktail
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 26588Unread post the_ducktail
Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:26 pm

studiorp wrote:Why only 2-3 volts ? Which head do you use ?
Im using an AUDAX RH5 head 8ohms
I dont want to blow it up

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the_ducktail
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 26589Unread post the_ducktail
Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:42 pm

Mark:

What type of meter are you using to monitor the voltage to the head (VU, Digital meter, etc)?
A= analog AC voltmeter conected to the speaker (cable, not plug) output


I would suggest starting out using a 1Khz sine wave as the source material as it is very easy to measure with any meter and equates easily to RMS power based on the voltage you read across the head (2.83Vac RMS = 1 watt RMS).
A=How do I meassure this :(


For most moving iron heads, this should get you in the ballpark of 5cm/sec recorded velocity (a decent reference level). Are you trying to cut or emboss?
A=Cutting


What type of media are you working with? I would suggest that you start out with some fresh lacquers, and a good sapphire stylus. Cut rather than emboss. This is the easiest way to get started (not the lowest cost). Once you get this under control, you can move to other methods/media.
A=Ok. I will use a saphire stylus and new lacquer discs today. (I didnt use them before as I want to save them for good recordings or when I have more practice)

REST OF IT...I WILL TRY IN A FEW HOURS

Thanks a lot
Richie.

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the_ducktail
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:08 am

Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 26590Unread post the_ducktail
Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:45 pm

studiorp wrote:Have you checked if the armature of your head has been centered perfectly ?
Then check too the gum inside the head, could be gone in the years...

Dear studiorp:

I will check them once more, about the gum. I dont know where to look for it. I post some pictures in this same topic. pictures from the iside of the AUDAX head, seems to be in mint condition but maybe Im wrong. I will follow markrob advice on put a speaker instead of the head to see if youre right.

Regards

Richie.

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the_ducktail
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:08 am

Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35198Unread post the_ducktail
Sat May 23, 2015 12:40 pm

Dear Trolls:

I finally got a set up.
20150522_202756.jpg
Did some test yesterday and the result was very decent level audio, loud hiss but it was cool anyway.

One problem was that the head was boiling, I saw some liquid sparkling and melting, Seems to be the copper head cables enamel heating so I turned the amp volume down and it was ok. I just want to know if this will cause any future troubles to my head?

Is it possible to fix a blown up head?

anyway heres some pictures from yesterday, pictures and audio...

heres the recording process

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fl5t62mEBc

and heres the result

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unLyazbkVdw&feature=youtu.be

any comments and suggestions are welcome.
best regards

Richie

(thanks a lot to Markrob)
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studiorp
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35199Unread post studiorp
Sat May 23, 2015 1:40 pm

Hello, yes is possible fix a blown head, depend where is the problem. Check your coil before; if necessary rewound it with a new copper wire possibly with the same diameter of original.

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studiorp
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35200Unread post studiorp
Sat May 23, 2015 1:45 pm

Sorry for this question, but do you use an inverted riaa curve on your eq. ? Then how many watts do you have on your amp ?

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the_ducktail
Posts: 105
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35206Unread post the_ducktail
Sat May 23, 2015 5:50 pm

Thanks STUDIO RP,

I committed a mistake, I use an old Voltmeter tester and was not fully functional, I just notice that.
Anyway I got another AC Voltmeter, one properly working and now I notice the difference, :P Luckily my head did not explode and seems to be working fine for now.

I sent about 6 watts or more :( my Voltmeter just read up to 5 Volts (the new one)

Anyway I think I got things solved for now.

about
Sorry for this question, but do you use an inverted riaa curve on your eq

A: I don't know I follow Markrob instructions and set lows at -6db, middles at 0db and highs at 6db+

about
Then how many watts do you have on your amp ?
A: 130 per channel, its a samson servo 260

thanks for your super fast answer.

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socialroots
Posts: 161
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Location: Dulan village,Taitung,Taiwan

Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35213Unread post socialroots
Sun May 24, 2015 1:41 am

!felicidades carnal! nice results for your first cut,like i told you before ,your rek o kut looks like its in such nice condition,de poca madre,chingona! respect,big up desde Taiwan!
mi encanta tu laboratorio tambien,vintage,LoFi,mono, ahuevo!

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the_ducktail
Posts: 105
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35267Unread post the_ducktail
Tue May 26, 2015 8:47 pm

hi lathe brothers:

Here are some pictures of my progress on recording. Unfortunately I cannot stop hiss, its getting too bad :P

here are some pictures of a professional recording
Foto del día 26-05-15 a la(s) 19.52 #2.jpg
Foto del día 26-05-15 a la(s) 19.55.jpg
and here are my recordings:
Foto del día 26-05-15 a la(s) 19.52 #3.jpg
Foto del día 26-05-15 a la(s) 19.54.jpg
can you have any ideas of whats going on? best regards, ;)

Richie.-
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markrob
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Location: Philadelphia Area

Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35276Unread post markrob
Wed May 27, 2015 9:13 am

Hi,

Its sounds plenty loud, but pretty treble heavy compared to the reference you played back (as best I can tell from a YouTube video). Looking at the microscope photo, there is not much excursion showing in the cut. So that also indicates not much bass present. I wonder if the hiss I hear is the result of too much treble boost. This might be resulting electrical noise.

What happens if you cut a silent groove with nothing connected to the head? If the hiss goes away, then you know its noise from your electronics/processing. What is your signal path and processing? How are you doing the RIAA?

Mark

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the_ducktail
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35281Unread post the_ducktail
Wed May 27, 2015 11:46 am

Dear Mark:

I don't know whats the RIIA curve, Ive read a lot about it but cannot get it in simple words, Im Just following your advices:
To get started, roll off the lows below 500hz at about -6db/octave. Boost the highs above 2Khz at +6db/octave. 500hz to 2Khz should be set flat.
Ive done that but nothing else. Do I have to do another thing apart from that?

Best regards.-

I will cut a silent groove and see whats going on and will upload a video by today noon

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markrob
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Location: Philadelphia Area

Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35286Unread post markrob
Wed May 27, 2015 12:39 pm

Hi,

Some of theses style heads, like the Presto, for example, don't need the cut at 500 hz. Perhaps that is the case here. Try cutting with just the high freq boost in place and see what kind of results you get. The silent groove test will still be helpful as you'll know if where the noise is coming from. Also the max boost at 10 Khz should be about +14 db as compared with the setting at 1Khz. Don't try to push much past 10-15 Khz initially or you'll just waste power in the head as its response is falling in that region.

Also suspect are the blanks you are using. The one in the video looks old. For best results, get a new lacquer to rule out that as a problem. Adding heating to the stylus will also improve your results, but should not be needed if you have a good blank and stylus. Heat might improve your results with old dried out blanks.

Mark

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the_ducktail
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35386Unread post the_ducktail
Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:24 pm

socialroots wrote:!felicidades carnal! nice results for your first cut,like i told you before ,your rek o kut looks like its in such nice condition,de poca madre,chingona! respect,big up desde Taiwan!
mi encanta tu laboratorio tambien,vintage,LoFi,mono, ahuevo!
Thanks a lot man :) But im still working on it, :)

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the_ducktail
Posts: 105
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35392Unread post the_ducktail
Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:11 pm

this is the Recording you hear on the youtube video recorded to my computer.

I amplify it to hear it better
first record 6.mp3
I will add another file with the clean recording with no audio later.

best regards Trolls
Richie.-
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the_ducktail
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Re: Finally I got a record lathe.

Post: # 35394Unread post the_ducktail
Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:52 pm

two different cuts of hiss recordings followed by music, they are amplified to listen to them better.
record hiss 1.mp3
record hiss 2.mp3
I recorded the no sound hiss, followed by the music playing to compare both

NOW I ADDED ONE MORE ALSO AMPLIFIED BUT WITH NO SOUND SEND TO THE HEAD
head with no sound.mp3
best regards

Richie.-
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