New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

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petrolio
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 47245Unread post petrolio
Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:27 am

Good job Symatic! Did you already choose an inverter? I suppose is a 3 phase motor, but you can buy a 2 phase inverter that can supply a 3 phase motor, better if it has vectorial function, easy to install , with the possibility to be controlled via pot /switch
And encoder or tacho feedback system for stability improving.. read the manual in deep... price from 150 to 300 €...

Inviato dal mio ALE-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 47246Unread post symatic
Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:19 am

Jccc wrote:awesome set up! Are you gonna be cutting skipless scratch records with the lathe?
that's the plan! also want to investigate cutting lock grooves that are lined up like skipless records, its inspiring to see sillitoe has been working on a head-dropping mechanism that might allow this.
also we want to try halfspeed mastering as lots of our records are designed to playback at 16.66rpm anyway.

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 47248Unread post symatic
Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:31 am

petrolio wrote:Good job Symatic! Did you already choose an inverter? I suppose is a 3 phase motor, but you can buy a 2 phase inverter that can supply a 3 phase motor, better if it has vectorial function, easy to install , with the possibility to be controlled via pot /switch
And encoder or tacho feedback system for stability improving.. read the manual in deep... price from 150 to 300 €...

Inviato dal mio ALE-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
thanks!

this is the motor - https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/teca-ie1-0-18kw-3-phase-tec-motor.html

and this is the invertor: https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/invertek-ode-3-120023-1f1x-optidrive-e3.html

so yeah it's a 3 phase motor supplied off the invertek that converts 1 to 3 phase.

apparently we can use the inverter to control the speed like we want to but i need to get to grips with these manuals cos i don't understand most of it!

then we need to sort the mounting bracket for the caruso, and the preamps (need another preamp board and dummy head from floka)
and we need to sort out how we'll do lines per inch..... im guessing a arduino controlled motor turning the screw, controlled by midi from our DAW so we can automate hte movement.... i tihnk


what do you use vectorial function for?

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petrolio
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 47249Unread post petrolio
Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:57 am

symatic wrote:
petrolio wrote:Good job Symatic! Did you already choose an inverter? I suppose is a 3 phase motor, but you can buy a 2 phase inverter that can supply a 3 phase motor, better if it has vectorial function, easy to install , with the possibility to be controlled via pot /switch
And encoder or tacho feedback system for stability improving.. read the manual in deep... price from 150 to 300 €...

Inviato dal mio ALE-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
thanks!

this is the motor - https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/teca-ie1-0-18kw-3-phase-tec-motor.html

and this is the invertor: https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/invertek-ode-3-120023-1f1x-optidrive-e3.html

so yeah it's a 3 phase motor supplied off the invertek that converts 1 to 3 phase.

apparently we can use the inverter to control the speed like we want to but i need to get to grips with these manuals cos i don't understand most of it!

then we need to sort the mounting bracket for the caruso, and the preamps (need another preamp board and dummy head from floka)
and we need to sort out how we'll do lines per inch..... im guessing a arduino controlled motor turning the screw, controlled by midi from our DAW so we can automate hte movement.... i tihnk


what do you use vectorial function for?
If I'm not wrong is a funcion that helps to get constant rpm if the load increase... but maybe is not usefull for you...

Inviato dal mio ALE-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk

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symatic
Posts: 241
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 47251Unread post symatic
Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:26 am

petrolio wrote:
symatic wrote:
petrolio wrote:Good job Symatic! Did you already choose an inverter? I suppose is a 3 phase motor, but you can buy a 2 phase inverter that can supply a 3 phase motor, better if it has vectorial function, easy to install , with the possibility to be controlled via pot /switch
And encoder or tacho feedback system for stability improving.. read the manual in deep... price from 150 to 300 €...

Inviato dal mio ALE-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
thanks!

this is the motor - https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/teca-ie1-0-18kw-3-phase-tec-motor.html

and this is the invertor: https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/invertek-ode-3-120023-1f1x-optidrive-e3.html

so yeah it's a 3 phase motor supplied off the invertek that converts 1 to 3 phase.

apparently we can use the inverter to control the speed like we want to but i need to get to grips with these manuals cos i don't understand most of it!

then we need to sort the mounting bracket for the caruso, and the preamps (need another preamp board and dummy head from floka)
and we need to sort out how we'll do lines per inch..... im guessing a arduino controlled motor turning the screw, controlled by midi from our DAW so we can automate hte movement.... i tihnk


what do you use vectorial function for?
If I'm not wrong is a funcion that helps to get constant rpm if the load increase... but maybe is not usefull for you...

Inviato dal mio ALE-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
Ok thanks for the tip i'll look into it!

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 49789Unread post symatic
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:22 pm

Hi Guys

after a bit of hiatus I'm getting back into this 14B restoration.

I've had to move it to a new location -and one problem I had was that the big metal base / cabinet that it sat on was too big to fit though the door! So thats in storage, and I plan to build a wooden base to replace it.

Any advice other than "make it really solid and heavy"?

for example, putting wheels on it would be handy (locking ones obviously) but is that like a big no-no? (considering the base wants to be as solid as possible....)

thanks!

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 50119Unread post symatic
Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:41 pm

finally building a base for the lathe....

Image

and we had thunder whilst we did it :) filmed the construction using a tree as a camera stand (shout out to Floka!)

Image

needs some more support at the bottom, and this is hopefully only a temporary stand until i get space to use the original metal base..... but hopefully i can at least put the parts together i have and get testing

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 50971Unread post symatic
Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:52 pm

I've been working on this today, and I'm trying to get the lathe level. Its pretty hard! it seems when I get the main chassis of the lathe level, and then mount the platter, it is level until i rotate it and thene there are some angles where it is not level any more.

the platter is really solid metal so I'm not convinced it would be warped or bent, perhaps the bearing needs looking at?

I'm wondering if any Presto 8d users might have similar issues as that seems to be the closest design to what I have....

any advice welcome!

thanks

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 50986Unread post symatic
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:49 am

I think I'm on to something - the drive mechanism is on its own 4 feet.. .so I'll need to level them out also! Welcome to Tweaksville.

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51016Unread post symatic
Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:03 am

I've managed to level the platter out (close enough for now anyway).
The mechanism underneith still seems slightly lopsided but i'll figure that out.

I wanted to try out the Motor and Inverter I bought a while back, but hadn't fitted until now.

Here it is working, which is awesome, but its turning too slowly. I'm trying to figure out if I got the wrong motor ir if I'm using the Inverter wrong. I think I'm running it as fast as it will go, but the platter is turning a bit too slow.

the good news is that I can adjust the speed. hopefully this is accurate enough for me to get precise speeds like 33.33333 and 16.6666.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqakt_4MSD4&feature=youtu.be

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51019Unread post symatic
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:30 am

stupid me! i got the speed up by using the 45rpm half of the mechanism.

there used to be 2 motors, one for 45 one for 33. they were exactly the same but the mechanism ise geared differently for each one. so i plugged this new motor into the 45 gears, now i can cut at 33 by slowing down the motor a little.

not too fussed about not being able to reach 45 rpm jsut now, as im interested in 33 and 16 rpm records.

now i have to figure out how accurately this thing is spinning....

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51020Unread post symatic
Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:34 am

I printed off a strobe disc, and it looks like its accurate.... im not sure if i should be doing more accurate tests than that?

the next thing I want to work out is the Dashpot. I bought a Airpot after reading about them on here. in fact i got the free sample :) but i want to attache this to the head mechanism - anyone got any suggestions on how to do this? im guessing some sort of clamping mechanism and some CNC parts might be involved

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51532Unread post symatic
Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:54 am

I did my first half decent "cut" this weekend!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkR4c-RSEYE&feature=youtu.be


we'd tried with metal stylii beforee but it sounded like ass.

Now with some of Mike PIAPTK's sapphire embossing stylii I managed to get a half-decent sound! this was my 2nd attempt after the 1st was wayyyy to quiet and the groove was barely even there,

This was a little deeper, but still very thin groove so the needle needed to be set up with loads of weight to play at all, and would often jump when it hit a particular snare. I'm guessing the groove was so thin that any loud noise would send the needle flying.

So this was cut on a 5C head with sapphire embossing stylus. I think i'll try adding more weight to the head as I can't add any more without taking the spring off.

anyway, i'm well happy with the result so far, wasn't expecting anything near that quality yet.
I was reading on here about embossing and people suggested puutting the head at 45 degrees, leaning way back. I can't figure how to do that angle on my setup but even a little bit out of the roughly 2 degree angle i'm using now and it sounds pretty bad.

So next I'm wondering what I can improve.
I'll post a vid of cutting for you to see maybe.

any advice is welcome!
I'm cutting with a pretty simple Rotel hi fi amp powering the head right now.... more power?
I am being conservative with volume.... how loud can I pump it? I can clearly hear it all out of the head, how loud is too loud?

I'll cut some pink noise and tones i guess....

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Jccc
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51543Unread post Jccc
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:30 pm

try putting more weight on the cutting head. Then you will have some deeper grooves for the needle to ride on.
Also you can try pulling the cutting shank out the head a bit to so you can angle the head and also give the needle more weight.

Also have you put a fuse inline with the cutting head and amp? That will protect the head from burning up if you send it a really hot signal.

i would say try getting the shank to emboss a bit deeper.Get it deep enough so you could scratch on it. Once you have the depth right then turn the volume up on the amp and cut some music.

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51547Unread post symatic
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:53 am

thanks jccc

i'll stick some bolts or something on it for now i guess, for the extra weight.

yes I do have a fuse in line.... I took apart a power plug with a fuse in it, replaced the fuse for the recommended rating for the head, and wired it up between the amp and the head.
I guess I'm just scared I'll still damage the head cos I wasn't expecting to hear it so "loud" acoustically out of the head, but yeah it makes sense that the fuse would burn out before the head...

I also got a reptile-tank bulb to use as a heat lamp.... gonn install that tonight hopefully

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51563Unread post symatic
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:07 am

So here's me cutting with a 40w heat lamp, and about 50g extra weight. the weight is just blu-tac'd on for now, i'll find some bolts that fit into the mounting bracket and attach more weight to experiment.

Made a big difference though!, the audio you can hear is just the shitty monitor speaker I have attached. But i'll upload the original audio and a recording from the record to compare.

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51564Unread post symatic
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:17 am

here's audio files of the original tracks i cut, along with the recordings off the disc.
i also included screengrabs from SPEC (a free spectograph application) to see the difference between the original and the dub.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=130yFVCO_X46pmJ1CpXdIfqeyI6y3smsQ

theres also a photo in that folder from the microscope, looking at the griives from an earlier cut. slightly less weight, and possibly an off-center stylus cos it looks a bit wider on one side than the other. that groove was shallower though as it was before i added 50g weight to the head.

here's some previews of the screengrabs for reference:

Image
Image


you can see in the lower image, from disc, that theres some lines going across the whole thing at 20khz and 16 khz, and some areas that seem to be missing audio.... not sure if this is some resonance or something? do i try to fix this with EQ or better physical setup?

heres the groove i mentioned, you can see it looks a little lop sided:

Image
Last edited by symatic on Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51565Unread post symatic
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:18 am

symatic wrote:So here's me cutting with a 40w heat lamp, and about 50g extra weight. the weight is just blu-tac'd on for now, i'll find some bolts that fit into the mounting bracket and attach more weight to experiment.

Made a big difference though!, the audio you can hear is just the shitty monitor speaker I have attached. But i'll upload the original audio and a recording from the record to compare.
sorry forgot the link!

heres vid of the Simiah track being cut:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1vjT8c_O-0&feature=youtu.be

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51615Unread post symatic
Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:16 am

one step forward 2 steps back!

my next cuts sounded a bit like all the trebel had disappeared, and i also had a problem with the amp cutting in and out ( i tihnk its a bit old and shite)

so i tried a new stylus, assuming my noobness had probably already destroyed the first one, but i cant stop it screeching like this....

https://youtu.be/cEKe_4IcpFs

confused but will use the weekend to try and figure it out

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symatic
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Re: New Project- Presto 14B / Caruso

Post: # 51671Unread post symatic
Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:14 am

so i think the trebel dissapearing was becasue i was piling too much weight on. Ive gone bcak to the first stylus, and put less weight, and the trebel started coming back.
however im still getting a lot of surface noise, i dunno what to expect with embossing though - anyone care to share their own examples so i can compare it?

today i cut the same 40 sec passage of music repeatedly, experimenting with different weights. the trebel definately gets better on lighter weights, but you have to balance it out so theres still enough groove to play at all.

the other stylus i tried just wont cut without making lots of noise. ive no idea why..... it looks fine. i've tried lots of angles and weights but no matter what you can hear its scraping away before music is even playing through it. I even tried mouting it backwards just to make sure i wasnt totally screwing it up the first time.... no luck though.

anyone got any embossing advice for a n00b?

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