Scam/Estafa/Trapaça: Angulo, Tangential, Mejía, Vortex Vinyl Disc Recorder C-4, C-6

Distinct from the "Members Only" section about business disputes, this is a section for those special few sellers who have distinguished themselves through clearly intentional efforts to scam multiple customers. If you intend to start a thread here, please check it with Steve E. first.

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jesusfwrl
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Scam/Estafa/Trapaça: Angulo, Tangential, Mejía, Vortex Vinyl Disc Recorder C-4, C-6

Post: # 36187Unread post jesusfwrl
Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:27 am

[Admin note: I am re-titling this thread to include "Tangential" and "Vinyl Disc Recorder C-4", since that is the current model being offered by this scam.
The original title was "Scam Warning: Angulo Records."

Please note as well. This scammer uses various sites and titles that may include the name "VinylRecorders." CONFUSING.
This is NOT to be confused with the legitimate product and site VinylRecorder, run by a man named Souri, usually under the model name T560.
Souri's T560 vinyl recorder is a LEGITIMATE PRODUCT used by many people on this chat forum.

Souri T560 VinylRecorder= good!
Angulo aka Tangential C-4 Vinyl Disc Recorder aka VinylRecorders = bad! ]



Hi everyone,

I am posting this as a warning to anyone interested in buying cutting equipment.

I have recently ordered the 500 W cutter head sold by Jonathan Raul Mejia Angulo form Argentina and/or Bolivia. It was advertised on his website as made entirely from aluminum, featuring 500 W rms drive coils and feedback coils with an output of 5 mV. It was meant to accept the same stylus as the Neumann SX74 head...
Here is what I got:
a3_zpsayhlwdg6.JPG
a2_zpsmvkdij5h.JPG
a1_zpsz4csdqtf.JPG
a12_zpsyfk9c9x3.JPG
a11_zpssnftwbsm.JPG
a10_zpsqfqgcowd.JPG
a9_zps2frdlnhj.JPG
a8_zpsqpcyhhwu.JPG
a7_zpsn6ueyyvw.JPG
a6_zpsntp1ipac.JPG
a5_zpsjsfo3zcp.JPG
a4_zpsla68e0eb.JPG
Complete joke...
Of course there are no feedback coils, only a couple of shitty tweeters, that can barely handle over 5 W of power. If I would even think about feeding 500 W of power into this head it would fly off my lathe and land back in Bolivia.
The construction is not even symmetrical and best of all: It doesn't even work!
It is not capable of really modulating the grooves. At best, it was producing a hint of noise that resembled the music. Looking at the result through a microscope using a 1K sine wave as a mono signal, it was evident, that the hint of modulation on the record had the left and right channels 90 degrees out of phase with each other. The stylus chuck was cracked and obviously will not take a Neumann-type stylus.

Jonathan or Raul or whatever his name is, has stopped responding to me and is not answering his phone. I have repeatedly asked for a refund since I received the head, and while in the beginning he gave me an excuse that he was abroad for work and that I should wait a few days, now it seems he just disappeared.

At least he was kind enough to hide some coins in his cutter head, presumably as a compensation of sorts...

It's really a shame that entire parts of the world are getting a bad reputation because of the actions of a few common thieves like this guy. Even if someone would make a legitimate head in Argentina now, I would probably have trouble trusting them. I am also forwarding all the information to the the Argentinian and Bolivian authorities, so hopefully they can at least prevent him from trading in this way, even if I never see my money back.

It has come to my attention that several other people seem to have bought his machines and had similar problems, but no one made it public until now. Our cutting community is quite small and it is really in our best interest to warn each other about things like that.

I have to say that it was also quite a convincing scam, since Angulo was extremely communicative before I sent him any money, answered all my questions in detail and even sent me technical drawings, as requested. However, it was all bullshit and what I received bares absolutely no resemblance to what I thought I was buying.
He is also terrible at packing things. The head came in a terrible package with a loose spare tweeter in it and some loose resistors, all banging against each other. Of course, there was no proper box for it and absolutely no documentation with it. I think it is obvious from the pictures that the head is made of some kind of raisin or plastic, with black electrical tape stuck over it. It remind me of a website I found in the past called "hillbillyrepairs".... Anyway, be warned!

If anyone on here speaks Spanish, may I please request, that you translate this to Spanish and post it on here as a reply, as it appears that Angulo is mainly targeting Spanish speaking countries and probably doesn't care about his reputation on the English speaking internet.
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~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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uvoscillator
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36188Unread post uvoscillator
Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:43 am

my condolences, this guy was always looked suspicious to me...
If not a secret how much you paid for this kinda craft hack?

alas :(
Best !

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Virtalahde
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36192Unread post Virtalahde
Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:14 pm

Now that is weird. The stuff on Angulo Record's site seems to be reasonably well made, and that head sort of looks like the one that mounts on Angulo's lathes, but is clearly a hillbilly version of it.

Coins, are they for added weight? Weight = quality to some people.

Hope you get it sorted out.

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36193Unread post jesusfwrl
Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:17 pm

The coin is the only real value in this thing. On the other side it is only a washer, so unless he ran out of cash while making it, they are just there to prevent the tweeters from coming loose.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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mossboss
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36207Unread post mossboss
Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:50 am

Well what can one say.
It seems that we need to change the title of this site to gullible trolls
Of lately we had vms poland galvi ted angulo and a few others here and there who scammed people
They see a bunch of likely minded people in one spot, they hone in, its like taking lollies of kids
Why dont people ask around first before parting with hard earned money?
As a suggestion, ask the seller to open an ebay account transact there pay the fees at least you get some cover in the event of a scam
Cheers
Chris

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Virtalahde
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36208Unread post Virtalahde
Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:26 am

What I find odd is that people who scam with new products (heads, lathes etc) are really choosing a very small audience for their scams.

If I were to scam people with bad products, I would do it on a larger markets. 3D printers, or similar.

EDIT: To GalviTed's defense, I don't think he was always a scammer. Maybe he just messed up his business. That doesn't make the situation any better though.

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mossboss
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36209Unread post mossboss
Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:11 am

Hello again
It is a very small area of interest
There is no defence for Galvi Ted or any of them
Cheers
Chris

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Gus
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36210Unread post Gus
Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:35 am

mossboss wrote:Well what can one say.
It seems that we need to change the title of this site to gullible trolls
Of lately we had vms poland galvi ted angulo and a few others here and there who scammed people
They see a bunch of likely minded people in one spot, they hone in, its like taking lollies of kids
Why dont people ask around first before parting with hard earned money?
As a suggestion, ask the seller to open an ebay account transact there pay the fees at least you get some cover in the event of a scam
Cheers
I think Vms Poland's replica SX74 as construction is miles away better than Angulos garbage
http://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4349#p26958
Don't forget Angulos head price's is 800$ :shock:
For 900-1200$ max you can buy a nice Grampian head

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Gus
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36211Unread post Gus
Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:42 am

Virtalahde wrote:What I find odd is that people who scam with new products (heads, lathes etc) are really choosing a very small audience for their scams.

If I were to scam people with bad products, I would do it on a larger markets. 3D printers, or similar.

EDIT: To GalviTed's defense, I don't think he was always a scammer. Maybe he just messed up his business. That doesn't make the situation any better though.
My opinion is if you are want to scam people sold to them a hard to find products.

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opcode66
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36221Unread post opcode66
Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:49 pm

That sucks. Really sorry to read this. Scamming within this community is getting really tiresome...

What a piece of shit! There isn't even a 90 degree angle to the frame. And, you can't expect to trace excursion in grooves without a proper torque tube. It just won't work correctly. Tapered styli don't use locking screws. Uggghhhhh. What a mess.

This pisses me off a lot. When I'm finished with Bladerunner I will offer one to you at a discount.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
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dimi751
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36226Unread post dimi751
Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:34 am

I'm sorry you had to go through that, It's a pity when there's people like this selling items not described as they should be, I hope you get a refund, and my advise to anyone buying overseas always use PayPal, you can get your money back if you have a issues with the seller.

Todd you are a legend ! Nice of you to offer a discount on bladerunner. :D

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MEGAMIKE
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36229Unread post MEGAMIKE
Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:34 am

hi
if you go to there site and look at the second product they have (model 2) the one with the turntable feet hanging over the edge of the lathe ,black swarf on the brush and kareoke style amp ..zoom in on the head in question and you can see a photoshop around the frame??

maybe they need help?..someone should go??

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36232Unread post jesusfwrl
Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:44 am

Part of the problem is that I am disabled and cannot use computers myself. My partner is using the computer for me, and she did print the pictures out for me and even zoomed in to some io them but missed that one. She is not that technical so it is not that easy for her to judge if something looks right or not.

We did ask around and we did quite a bit of internet research before buying this, but were unable to find any feedback on Angulos products, even in Spanish. Paypal is generally a good idea but unfortunately that was not how the payment was made.

Angulo contacted me yesterday by email and told me, that he will not send me my money back because the head was tested and it is my fault that I do not know how to use it....

I wonder if his strategy is to sell something that looks like a cutter head, mostly to people with no prior experience and then try to convince them that it is their fault it doesn't work.
It could be an alien technology cutter head, which would suddenly turn all metallic and grow feedback coils and proper linkages and torque tube in the hands of an experienced cutter.
Luckily, since I am already cutting records and have quite a lot of technical knowledge about such systems, I can be confident enough that this head is not what he advertised and that it doesn't even work for what it is. I am sure, I am not the only one falling for Angulos scam and I surely hope others will chime in soon.

Thanks for your offer, Todd, much appreciated.

I wish we can somehow eventually get rid of scammers in our field. What I find really peculiar, is that these people actually go through the trouble of making something that looks like a head, which is already enough trouble on its own, just to sell it to a small group of people who have any interest for such things. It would surely be profitable in the long run if they would develop a head that actually works, even if it is not such a good head, and price it according to it performance. Steve E. also mentions this to me and he is right.

But, this also brings out an issue in our small community. Nobody would bother making a mock-up of a head and keep on advertising it for 10 years while maintaining a website, facebook page and youtube account, only to sell one of these to some unlucky person, who would then go on to expose it as a scam, which would mean they would never sell one of these again. You can't sell it expensive enough to make it worth your while.
This must mean that such idiots are managing to sell LOADS of these heads to people who never make it public! Not making such experiences public is what keeps them in business.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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opcode66
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36233Unread post opcode66
Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:27 am

Didn't sunkingrecords buy a machine from this person???? What was their experience?
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
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dimi751
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36234Unread post dimi751
Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:13 am

Yeah good point what are his experiences

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Ciuens
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36235Unread post Ciuens
Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:18 am

Primeiramente em Português, para que esse ladrão safado leia e entenda perfeitamente o que vou dizer:

Você é um idiota, mentiroso e e desonesto. A algum tempo atrás entrei em contato com Angulo Records para obter mais informações sobre o equipamento que ele estava vendendo na Argentina, eu estou no Brasil, então seria bastante viável para mim adquirir seu suposto equipamento, mas obtive respostas vagas e com pouca credibilidade, o que me vez desistir da compra e me dedicar mais ainda a meu projeto, que hoje com certeza é absolutamente funcional e tem dado bons resultados, como comprovado nos posts que venho mostrando.
Esse cara é uma vergonha, e acho que deve ser expulso do fórum, para evitar futuros golpes a pessoas honestas e que procuram um produto de qualidade.

Now in English:

You're an idiot, liar and and dishonest. Some time ago I contacted Angulo Records for more information on the equipment he was selling in Argentina, I'm in Brazil, then it would be quite feasible for me to acquire his alleged equipment but got vague answers and with little credibility, that give me time of purchase and dedicate myself even more to my project, which today is certainly absolutely functional and has given good results, as evidenced in the posts I've been showing.
This guy is a disgrace, and I think it should be banned from the Forum, to prevent future strokes to honest people and looking for a quality product.

Y ahora en español:
Eres un idiota, mentiroso y deshonesto. Hace un tiempo me puse en contacto Angulo registros para obtener más información sobre el equipo que estaba vendiendo en la Argentina, estoy en Brasil, entonces sería muy factible para que yo adquiero su presunta equipo, pero tengo respuestas vagas y con poca credibilidad, que me dará tiempo de compra y dedicarme más a mi proyecto, que hoy es, sin duda absolutamente funcional y ha dado buenos resultados, como se evidencia en los puestos que he estado mostrando.
Este tipo es una vergüenza, y creo que debe ser prohibido en el forum, para prevenir futuros accidentes cerebrovasculares a gente honesta y que buscan un producto de calidad.

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opcode66
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36236Unread post opcode66
Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:28 am

Well, somebody is certainly not being honest...
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
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sunkingrecords
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36237Unread post sunkingrecords
Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:41 am

Hi, this are photographs I took at some point of the head I got.
At the moment, the head is in the hands of an engineer which is trying to make some sense out of it:
IMG_4560.JPG
IMG_4561.JPG
IMG_4562.JPG
IMG_4563.JPG
More in the following post
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I choose not to run .-

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sunkingrecords
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36238Unread post sunkingrecords
Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:58 am

IMG_4559.JPG
IMG_4626.JPG
IMG_4564.JPG
I have to find the photos of the interior of the machine, which now is also pretty much dismantled while we try to rebuilt the thing to operational standards.

I never got good results with the system, which until recently I still wasn't sure it was fault of me or the system. The main problem seems to be the head, but also the quality standard of the built leaves a LOT to be desired. I had to replace jacks, potentiometers which failed very quickly. The interior is a complete mess of wires and DIY boards, some parts seem to be scavenged from other equipment (including a noisy MP3 player)

I'll search for more pics which will talk by themselves and post soon.
Regards
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opcode66
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36239Unread post opcode66
Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:59 am

Pitiful. Just atrocious. You paid good money for that I'm guessing. That is so horrible.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

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