Scam/Estafa/Trapaça: Angulo, Tangential, Mejía, Vortex Vinyl Disc Recorder C-4, C-6

Distinct from the "Members Only" section about business disputes, this is a section for those special few sellers who have distinguished themselves through clearly intentional efforts to scam multiple customers. If you intend to start a thread here, please check it with Steve E. first.

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mossboss
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36558Unread post mossboss
Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:01 am

Bizarre 100 replies Lots of views
Obviously scamming is not a good idea here
Keep it up
Cheers
Chris

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36559Unread post jesusfwrl
Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:38 am

How exactly did I threaten or blackmail you, Angulo? The only money I ever asked you to send me back was the exact amount I paid you for your fake cutter head. Making such unfounded claims about me does even more harm to your reputation and it is also illegal.
The reason you are failing in keeping a good reputation is because you resort to lies, fake videos, and unfounded claims, on top of making plain horrible products.

My comments about your products are accompanied by detailed photographs of the product you have delivered. If there is something wrong with the product this is how you made it. If it doesn't seem right, then take it back and give me a refund.

How exactly did I tamper with it? Did I move your coin?
Was this coin precisely placed in an exact location, found after decades of careful r&d? And now, the whole thing doesn't work because I moved it? I will admit to not being familiar with coins used in precision engineering products. Needless to say, I only opened the head, thus disturbing the exact disturbing the exact position of your coin after already realising that this product is completely not what I paid for, that it doesn't even work on a basic level and that you are refusing to take it back.

How was the head of sunkingrecords modified?

Also, further back in this thread I posted the list of questions for you regarding the construction of your head. Would you care to provide some answers?

Which other stereo heads do not have a torque tube? Where is the torque tube on your head? Why is the construction not even straight or symmetrical?
Where are the feedback coils? How did you come up with the specifications on your website and why did you change them after this issue went public?

How could I fit a Neumann type stylus on your head? You explicitly assured me by email that I can fit a Neumann type cutting stylus on your head. Please post a video showing us how you can do this.

If you are the poor victim here, then I wonder why there is no happy costumers chiming in to your defence. In general, why are there no happy costumers anywhere to be found for your products?

Also, in case you haven't noticed yet I am proceeding with legal action! You are greatly helping me out with giving me more and more that I could use against you. You are not even good as a thief.

Ciuens, I did try cutting with this head, but it is only good for making silent grooves. The linkages are so heavy that there is really not much happening and there is only a tiny hint of noise modulating the grooves. You can't really cut music with this head. Perhaps you might hear a hint of the music at something like 40 db lower than reference level, but it's really a bit of a joke. The fact that the whole thing is not even straight or symmetrical results in the head not even being able to cut mono signals correctly. It appears to be more something that looks like a cutter head that he can steal peoples money with rather than a real cutter head that is actually meant to work. Just a badly made mock-up of a cutter head.



SPANISH https://translate.google.com

¿Cómo funciona exactamente me amenazo o chantaje que, Angulo? El único dinero que nunca te pedí que me enviara de vuelta era la cantidad exacta que usted pagó por su cabeza de corte falso. Hacer tales afirmaciones infundadas sobre mí hace aún más daño a su reputación y también es ilegal.
La razón por la que está fallando en mantener una buena reputación se debe a que usted recurre a la mentira, videos falsos, y reclamaciones infundadas, en la parte superior de la fabricación de productos llanura horribles.

Mis comentarios sobre sus productos van acompañados de fotografías detalladas del producto que ha entregado. Si hay algo mal con el producto así es como usted lo hizo. Si no parece correcto, entonces tomar de nuevo y me da un reembolso.

¿Cómo funciona exactamente qué me manipule él? ¿Me muevo su moneda?
¿Fue esta moneda colocada precisamente en una ubicación exacta, encontró después de décadas de cuidadosa investigación y desarrollo? Y ahora, todo el asunto no funciona porque me moví? Tengo que admitir que no estar familiarizados con las monedas utilizadas en productos de ingeniería de precisión. Huelga decir que sólo se me abrió la cabeza, perturbando así la inquietante exacta la posición exacta de su moneda después de que ya darse cuenta de que este producto no es completamente lo que pagué, que ni siquiera funciona en un nivel básico y que son negarse a tomar de nuevo.

¿Cómo se modificó la cabeza de sunkingrecords?

También, más atrás en este hilo he publicado la lista de preguntas para usted con respecto a la construcción de la cabeza. ¿Le importaría dar algunas respuestas?

¿Qué otros jefes estéreo no tienen un tubo de torsión? ¿Dónde está el tubo de torsión en la cabeza? ¿Por qué es la construcción ni siquiera recta o simétrica?
¿Dónde están las bobinas de retroalimentación? ¿Cómo se te ocurrió con las especificaciones de su sitio web y por qué se los cambie después de este tema salió a bolsa?

¿Cómo podría adaptarse a un tipo stylus Neumann en la cabeza? Usted me aseguró explícitamente por correo electrónico que pueda caber un lápiz de corte tipo Neumann en su cabeza. Por favor enviar un video que nos muestra cómo se puede hacer esto.

Si usted es la pobre víctima aquí, entonces me pregunto por qué no hay clientes felices repicando en su defensa. En general, ¿por qué hay no hay clientes felices en cualquier lugar que se encuentran para sus productos?
También, en caso de que no lo hayas notado sin embargo, estoy de proceder con acciones legales! Usted me está ayudando mucho con darme más y más que podría utilizar en su contra. Usted no está aún bien como un ladrón.

Ciuens, me intentaron cortar con esta cabeza, pero es sólo bueno para hacer surcos en silencio. Los vínculos son tan pesadas que no hay realmente no hay mucho que hacer y sólo hay un pequeño toque de ruido de la modulación de las ranuras. Realmente no se puede cortar la música con esta cabeza. Tal vez usted podría escuchar un toque de la música en algo así como 40 dB menos que el nivel de referencia, pero en realidad es un poco de una broma. El hecho de que todo el asunto es ni siquiera resultados rectos o simétricas en la cabeza ni siquiera ser capaz de cortar señales mono correctamente. Parece ser más algo que se parece a una cabeza de corte que puede robar dinero de la gente con el lugar de una cabeza de corte real que se quiere decir en realidad al trabajo. Sólo una maqueta mal hecha de un cabezal de corte.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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markrob
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36561Unread post markrob
Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:24 am

Hi,

Not trying to defend the head (its really ratty in construction), but there are some stereo head designs without the Westrex/Neumann style torque tube. The torque tube is an elegant solution to the problem, but not the only one. The Sudgen head (search for some posts here on the forum) and a Fairchild 642 head (described in the AES anthoglogy) come to mind right off the bat as examples that do not have a torque tube. My DIY head was based on a 1957 CBS patent (US 3053943) that did not have a torque tube. They use an interesting hinge arrangement to perform the vector addition. I did not use this hinge in my build and as a result, the stereo separation is affected (I would like to try this method someday). However, even with the very simple round stud I used, there is still usable stereo information recorded. The Ortophon rocker style head is a well known commercial design that also does not use a a torque tube. There is even an interesting Neumann patent (US 2962561) for a head design that has a different take on how to accomplish the vector summing action.

I suspect that the head in question here would be capable of vertical motion, just not optimum. The real issue is the bait and switch between what was promised and what was delivered.

Mark

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36563Unread post jesusfwrl
Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:54 am

Interesting information. I have also heard of one DIY head with no torque tube although the maker said that it would probably be better to modify the design to include a torque tube for the stereo separation.

The lack of a torque tube is the least of the problems with Angulos head. The fact that the linkages are very heavy steel nails, super glued to a brass cable clamp , none of which is straight, is a much bigger problem. Apart from the geometry being completely off, this construction weighs a ton and the tiny dome tweeters are not really capable of accelerating this mass. The crank shafts of a Detroit diesel V8 engine are also at a 45/45 degree angle, but they need the Detroit diesel V8 to move them around. If you would take it apart and replace the pistons with tiny tweeters, I doubt anything would happen. I wonder if Angulos next head would actually feature crank shafts...Maybe a V8 head with 8 dome tweeters and probably some spark plugs for effect...?
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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angulorecords
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36565Unread post angulorecords
Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:37 am

opcode66 wrote:Your videos are fake. I can say that with 100% confidence. Only Mono cutterheads (lateral excursion only) have no torque tube. What you have made will only make lateral excursion. Your design will not make vertical motion. Without vertical motion you have summed your stereo information to mono and made lateral only grooves. Boom! You are fake.

The esterio movement is obtained by a " mechanical bridge " " V " between the two bovine to 45/45 ,

Torsion tube has nothing to do with the movement stereo

The torque tube as the name says it acts as a suspension spring for cutting needle increase rigidity against bending in the opposite direction due to the force to make the needle during the chip making . blocking the movements generated thrust disk surface forward or backward , leaving only the horizontal and vertical flexible lateral movements .


In my severed head it was not necessary to place a torque tube because the membranes of each coil 45/45 mechanical bridge is very hard ( rigid ) blocking the movements of the opposing forces generated by the rotation of the disc against the blade when the needle penetrates the disc
Push the rigid mechanical connection between the hard membrane between the coils , bloquenado that tuersa backward or forward.


Leaving only the flexible horizontal and vertical movements
We could say that the torque tube was replaced with "rigid " hard membranes connected in the " mechanical bridge 45/45 "

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angulorecords
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36566Unread post angulorecords
Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:09 pm

jesusfwrl wrote:How exactly did I threaten or blackmail you, Angulo? The only money I ever asked you to send me back was the exact amount I paid you for your fake cutter head. Making such unfounded claims about me does even more harm to your reputation and it is also illegal.
The reason you are failing in keeping a good reputation is because you resort to lies, fake videos, and unfounded claims, on top of making plain horrible products.

My comments about your products are accompanied by detailed photographs of the product you have delivered. If there is something wrong with the product this is how you made it. If it doesn't seem right, then take it back and give me a refund.

How exactly did I tamper with it? Did I move your coin?
Was this coin precisely placed in an exact location, found after decades of careful r&d? And now, the whole thing doesn't work because I moved it? I will admit to not being familiar with coins used in precision engineering products. Needless to say, I only opened the head, thus disturbing the exact disturbing the exact position of your coin after already realising that this product is completely not what I paid for, that it doesn't even work on a basic level and that you are refusing to take it back.

How was the head of sunkingrecords modified?

Also, further back in this thread I posted the list of questions for you regarding the construction of your head. Would you care to provide some answers?

Which other stereo heads do not have a torque tube? Where is the torque tube on your head? Why is the construction not even straight or symmetrical?
Where are the feedback coils? How did you come up with the specifications on your website and why did you change them after this issue went public?

How could I fit a Neumann type stylus on your head? You explicitly assured me by email that I can fit a Neumann type cutting stylus on your head. Please post a video showing us how you can do this.

If you are the poor victim here, then I wonder why there is no happy costumers chiming in to your defence. In general, why are there no happy costumers anywhere to be found for your products?

Also, in case you haven't noticed yet I am proceeding with legal action! You are greatly helping me out with giving me more and more that I could use against you. You are not even good as a thief.

Ciuens, I did try cutting with this head, but it is only good for making silent grooves. The linkages are so heavy that there is really not much happening and there is only a tiny hint of noise modulating the grooves. You can't really cut music with this head. Perhaps you might hear a hint of the music at something like 40 db lower than reference level, but it's really a bit of a joke. The fact that the whole thing is not even straight or symmetrical results in the head not even being able to cut mono signals correctly. It appears to be more something that looks like a cutter head that he can steal peoples money with rather than a real cutter head that is actually meant to work. Just a badly made mock-up of a cutter head.



SPANISH https://translate.google.com

¿Cómo funciona exactamente me amenazo o chantaje que, Angulo? El único dinero que nunca te pedí que me enviara de vuelta era la cantidad exacta que usted pagó por su cabeza de corte falso. Hacer tales afirmaciones infundadas sobre mí hace aún más daño a su reputación y también es ilegal.
La razón por la que está fallando en mantener una buena reputación se debe a que usted recurre a la mentira, videos falsos, y reclamaciones infundadas, en la parte superior de la fabricación de productos llanura horribles.

Mis comentarios sobre sus productos van acompañados de fotografías detalladas del producto que ha entregado. Si hay algo mal con el producto así es como usted lo hizo. Si no parece correcto, entonces tomar de nuevo y me da un reembolso.

¿Cómo funciona exactamente qué me manipule él? ¿Me muevo su moneda?
¿Fue esta moneda colocada precisamente en una ubicación exacta, encontró después de décadas de cuidadosa investigación y desarrollo? Y ahora, todo el asunto no funciona porque me moví? Tengo que admitir que no estar familiarizados con las monedas utilizadas en productos de ingeniería de precisión. Huelga decir que sólo se me abrió la cabeza, perturbando así la inquietante exacta la posición exacta de su moneda después de que ya darse cuenta de que este producto no es completamente lo que pagué, que ni siquiera funciona en un nivel básico y que son negarse a tomar de nuevo.

¿Cómo se modificó la cabeza de sunkingrecords?

También, más atrás en este hilo he publicado la lista de preguntas para usted con respecto a la construcción de la cabeza. ¿Le importaría dar algunas respuestas?

¿Qué otros jefes estéreo no tienen un tubo de torsión? ¿Dónde está el tubo de torsión en la cabeza? ¿Por qué es la construcción ni siquiera recta o simétrica?
¿Dónde están las bobinas de retroalimentación? ¿Cómo se te ocurrió con las especificaciones de su sitio web y por qué se los cambie después de este tema salió a bolsa?

¿Cómo podría adaptarse a un tipo stylus Neumann en la cabeza? Usted me aseguró explícitamente por correo electrónico que pueda caber un lápiz de corte tipo Neumann en su cabeza. Por favor enviar un video que nos muestra cómo se puede hacer esto.

Si usted es la pobre víctima aquí, entonces me pregunto por qué no hay clientes felices repicando en su defensa. En general, ¿por qué hay no hay clientes felices en cualquier lugar que se encuentran para sus productos?
También, en caso de que no lo hayas notado sin embargo, estoy de proceder con acciones legales! Usted me está ayudando mucho con darme más y más que podría utilizar en su contra. Usted no está aún bien como un ladrón.

Ciuens, me intentaron cortar con esta cabeza, pero es sólo bueno para hacer surcos en silencio. Los vínculos son tan pesadas que no hay realmente no hay mucho que hacer y sólo hay un pequeño toque de ruido de la modulación de las ranuras. Realmente no se puede cortar la música con esta cabeza. Tal vez usted podría escuchar un toque de la música en algo así como 40 dB menos que el nivel de referencia, pero en realidad es un poco de una broma. El hecho de que todo el asunto es ni siquiera resultados rectos o simétricas en la cabeza ni siquiera ser capaz de cortar señales mono correctamente. Parece ser más algo que se parece a una cabeza de corte que puede robar dinero de la gente con el lugar de una cabeza de corte real que se quiere decir en realidad al trabajo. Sólo una maqueta mal hecha de un cabezal de corte.
before talking with me you preferred to get dirty and defame in this forum without dialogue with me in a good way
after defame and smear my reputation in this forum , you want me a lot of money with blackmail and threats
also you ruin your cutting head

I was ready to rembolsarlo , his bad attitude decides publicamnete dirty slanders in this forum and then claim a refund. ??

It should be reversed

I do not give

my one defends me because I never use this forum and I have no virtual friends


I do not know anyone here and I molded my projects ever in this forum or post anything


"Do not throw stones at the neighbor if you have glass ceiling "

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36570Unread post jesusfwrl
Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:38 pm

Well, at least you are good in lying, Angulo! Nobody can be all bad in everything...

I did sent you dozens of emails since I received the cutter head telling you that I am not happy with it and very politely requesting a refund.

I have never threatened you and I have never blackmailed you. I never asked you for any money apart from requesting a refund of the amount of money I paid you for this fake cutter head.
You even asked me to give you some time, because you were abroad for work and I even complied with this request, which is why I waited around 20 days before making any of this public.
I made this matter public only AFTER you completely and flatly refused to give me a refund in our private communication.

For me it was clear as soon as I saw the cutter head that I had fallen for a scam. However, I gave you more than enough opportunities to just claim that it was some kind of mistake and give me a refund. I even asked you in one of my emails if it could be that you have accidentally sent me the wrong head. You could have easily taken the opportunity and tell me "Oh, yes, this is a mistake. Sorry." and give me a refund. Then I wouldn't have anything to say about you apart from the fact that there was some kind of mistake.

But, with how you are dealing with this, you are making it obvious to everyone that you are a scammer, liar and a thief. All our communication has been in writing via email. You can claim anything you like, but you will only make your situation more difficult. You are only managing to ridicule yourself. Go on, it is definitely in my best interest.

SPANISH https://translate.google.com

Bueno, al menos que usted es bueno en la mentira, Angulo! Nadie puede ser tan malo en todo ...

Yo le envié docenas de correos electrónicos desde que recibí la cabeza de corte que le dice que no estoy contento con él y muy educadamente solicitar un reembolso.

Nunca te he amenazado y yo nunca te he chantajeado. Yo nunca te pedí nada de dinero, aparte de pedir un reembolso de la cantidad de dinero que usted pagó por esta cabeza de corte falso.
Incluso me pidió que le diera un poco de tiempo, porque estaba en el extranjero para el trabajo y hasta yo cumplido con este pedido, por lo que esperé alrededor de 20 días antes de hacer nada de esto público.
Hice pública esta cuestión sólo después por completo y se negó rotundamente a darme un reembolso en nuestra comunicación privada.

Para mí estaba claro tan pronto como vi la cabeza de corte que había caído en una estafa. Sin embargo, me dio más que suficientes oportunidades para simplemente afirmar que se trataba de algún tipo de error y darme un reembolso. Yo incluso le pregunté a uno de mis correos electrónicos si podría ser que tú me has enviado accidentalmente la cabeza equivocada. Usted podría haber tomado fácilmente la oportunidad y me dicen: "Oh, sí, esto es un error. Lo siento." y me da un reembolso. Entonces yo no tendría nada que decir acerca de usted aparte del hecho de que había algún tipo de error.

Pero, con la forma en que se trata de esto, usted está haciendo es obvio para todos que usted es un estafador, mentiroso y un ladrón. Toda nuestra comunicación ha sido por escrito a través de correo electrónico. Usted puede reclamar todo lo que quieras, pero sólo hará que su situación más difícil. Sólo se está gestionando para ridiculizar a ti mismo. Vamos, que es sin duda en mi mejor interés.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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opcode66
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36574Unread post opcode66
Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:24 pm

markrob wrote:Hi,

Not trying to defend the head (its really ratty in construction), but there are some stereo head designs without the Westrex/Neumann style torque tube. The torque tube is an elegant solution to the problem, but not the only one. The Sudgen head (search for some posts here on the forum) and a Fairchild 642 head (described in the AES anthoglogy) come to mind right off the bat as examples that do not have a torque tube. My DIY head was based on a 1957 CBS patent (US 3053943) that did not have a torque tube. They use an interesting hinge arrangement to perform the vector addition. I did not use this hinge in my build and as a result, the stereo separation is affected (I would like to try this method someday). However, even with the very simple round stud I used, there is still usable stereo information recorded. The Ortophon rocker style head is a well known commercial design that also does not use a a torque tube. There is even an interesting Neumann patent (US 2962561) for a head design that has a different take on how to accomplish the vector summing action.

I suspect that the head in question here would be capable of vertical motion, just not optimum. The real issue is the bait and switch between what was promised and what was delivered.

Mark
I understand what you are saying Markrob. But, my statement is still valid because I am referring to a 45/45 configuration. I believe the heads you are referring to are not technically 45/45 and are really 90/90. You have one transducer on a sled that the other transducer is affecting. You have two transducers that are on the lateral and vertical planes already. It is not a fair comparison since the physics of these systems is totally different. Apples and oranges mate. Can you with all seriousness say to me that this head is more like one of the outlier heads you have cited or more like the standard Neumann/Westrex? If it is more like the Neumann/Westrex then we are in 45/45 torque tube land my friend. My statement still stands. And, to be more accurate for all heads, I can restate it. Without some physical mechanism to translate out of phase movement into vertical motion, all you will produce is lateral summed mono of a stereo signal. Better? Each of your examples has an implemented means by which this is achieved. You refer to a pivot point. That is entirely lacking in this cutterhead. So, your point is?

Let me break it down. If I was being suspended by a wire and I was trying to push on something, I would not be able to transmit much force to it. If on the other hand, I was suspended by a wire and I had my feet planted on a wall, then boy oh boy could I push on something and translate a lot of force to it. That is exactly what the back end of the torque tube is doing. It is providing an additional connective point from which movement can pivot. Actually, the back end of the torque tube serves several functions. One is to recenter the stylus after there is no longer any stimulus. Yet another is to help guide the 45 degree motion. The third and in this case most important is that it has a third connective point at the center of the shaft. This is the Pivot Point of the system. Without this connective point 90% of your vertical is lost (if most is gone then I consider it gone entirely, sorry, I don't call that usable). This pivot point is the difference between rotational movement of the stylus versus vertical movement. Without the pivot you also get lateral backward movement from the disc pushing on it as well. All of this should indicate that without something other than the transducers themselves getting involved physically (Markrob refers to a pivot point), then vertical isn't happening.

I'm able to state all of this from real hard data. Actual research and development. Real test cut. I'm not simply stating things that I've read or assumed. Here is why the cones and their rigidity don't matter. The cones are not just floating there held by some tractor beam or something. They connect to something. That something has to have some give to it or there would be zero movement in the transducer. Most transducers have either a flexible membrane or a spring configuration. That spring/membrane would have to be constructed specifically to move primarily along one vector and not to teeter. If there is no resistance to teetering (which is totally unaffected by the rigidity of the cones) then you will not get vertical and will only get rotational movement of the stylus for out of phase signal. Yes, rotational has a very weak vertical component to it and if that is what you want to call stereo, go for it. I don't.... There is no way the Angulo configuration does this. A corollary to this point is that most off the shelf speakers do not have anything in them that prevents teetering. Therefore, using off the shelf speakers as transducers for a 45/45 system is in itself inherently doomed to fail unless your design specifically accounts for this.

This my fellow Trolls is how you give a proper response. I don't quote from other peoples work. I don't make allusions to work I've done that I have no proof of. I explain things from the bottom up in real world terms. Not academia.

Besides all of this, there are several other humungous issues with this configuration. Can you, Markrob, identify them? I can easily. Let's focus just on the stylus holder, ok? I can detail at least three things that this configuration will do that are totally inconsistent with cutting good clean grooves.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

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Vice Fiori
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36582Unread post Vice Fiori
Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:21 pm

ahahaha we need a girlfriend or a doll?
Come on angulo, you can do better than that.. still with this mind and you'll get a girlfriend soon or maybe you're going to be the girlfriend in jail maybe...

As i told on another topic, and i'll say it again to you, i dont need screw the people work to make their loose money, i have my job and its get my way to live in a great condition, i even work in special with vinyl, I don even won a penny with music today and i almost buy this piece os shit... yeah.. put me in fail for this

Yeah, your video is a great lie, do you think you're good hiding and edit a sound? even a plugin like izotope vinyl doing the job better, hope you're not going to use it to lie with your new costumers on new videos..

And you... , almost people here know about sound and frequencies, look this:

-we're not deaf
-we're know about pitch when start a vinyl,
we get to study everyday and still learning,
we have music producers here
we have professional master cutters here,
we have mastering engineer here
-we're cutting vinyl god dammit

This comunity's not a 100% of a beginners who find and want to learn about lathe..
If you're trying to do your job, you're doing in the wrong way, with wrong methods, and with wrong people...

So give the money back to this guy and the another guy who you sell this piece of shit and get lost, the members of this page are sic about people like you who still have balls to think you're right VS a entire community..

Hey... HEY.. LISTEN.. You're damage is already done, give up...

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Vice Fiori
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36583Unread post Vice Fiori
Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:31 pm

Have a look at this..

-This is my first test with a Recordette 78rpm, I try to rebuilt the crystal head, but i have only a cheap piezo, i put it in the head, use latex gloves and super glue.
-I use a dimmer on the motor, trying to reduce speed at 33, with going to be fail..
-I try to record a stereo sound, in a mono out, without a proper master, with a trash and broke ruby styllus and a acetate ultra thin foil...
-HOW IT SOUND? sound like sh**, BUT IT'S REAL...

The terrible video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JDfS1fqIUo

The moral? I try, I learn with my mistakes and still learn with a vestax, i know with this machine when it's the machine fault and when it's MY FAULT, If I going to make records for people, even my closest friend, with this recordette, i'll have to say "I cant, but if you really want, i'll tell you the truth about it and the limits," and the same with vestax, I can make grat think in this low machine, but people need to know the truth..

So, get yourself in a real world and tell yourself you're wrong...

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markrob
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36584Unread post markrob
Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:14 pm

opcode66 wrote:
markrob wrote:Hi,

Not trying to defend the head (its really ratty in construction), but there are some stereo head designs without the Westrex/Neumann style torque tube. The torque tube is an elegant solution to the problem, but not the only one. The Sudgen head (search for some posts here on the forum) and a Fairchild 642 head (described in the AES anthoglogy) come to mind right off the bat as examples that do not have a torque tube. My DIY head was based on a 1957 CBS patent (US 3053943) that did not have a torque tube. They use an interesting hinge arrangement to perform the vector addition. I did not use this hinge in my build and as a result, the stereo separation is affected (I would like to try this method someday). However, even with the very simple round stud I used, there is still usable stereo information recorded. The Ortophon rocker style head is a well known commercial design that also does not use a a torque tube. There is even an interesting Neumann patent (US 2962561) for a head design that has a different take on how to accomplish the vector summing action.

I suspect that the head in question here would be capable of vertical motion, just not optimum. The real issue is the bait and switch between what was promised and what was delivered.

Mark
I understand what you are saying Markrob. But, my statement is still valid because I am referring to a 45/45 configuration. I believe the heads you are referring to are not technically 45/45 and are really 90/90. You have one transducer on a sled that the other transducer is affecting. You have two transducers that are on the lateral and vertical planes already. It is not a fair comparison since the physics of these systems is totally different. Apples and oranges mate. Can you with all seriousness say to me that this head is more like one of the outlier heads you have cited or more like the standard Neumann/Westrex? If it is more like the Neumann/Westrex then we are in 45/45 torque tube land my friend. My statement still stands. And, to be more accurate for all heads, I can restate it. Without some physical mechanism to translate out of phase movement into vertical motion, all you will produce is lateral summed mono of a stereo signal. Better? Each of your examples has an implemented means by which this is achieved. You refer to a pivot point. That is entirely lacking in this cutterhead. So, your point is?

Let me break it down. If I was being suspended by a wire and I was trying to push on something, I would not be able to transmit much force to it. If on the other hand, I was suspended by a wire and I had my feet planted on a wall, then boy oh boy could I push on something and translate a lot of force to it. That is exactly what the back end of the torque tube is doing. It is providing an additional connective point from which movement can pivot. Actually, the back end of the torque tube serves several functions. One is to recenter the stylus after there is no longer any stimulus. Yet another is to help guide the 45 degree motion. The third and in this case most important is that it has a third connective point at the center of the shaft. This is the Pivot Point of the system. Without this connective point 90% of your vertical is lost (if most is gone then I consider it gone entirely, sorry, I don't call that usable). This pivot point is the difference between rotational movement of the stylus versus vertical movement. Without the pivot you also get lateral backward movement from the disc pushing on it as well. All of this should indicate that without something other than the transducers themselves getting involved physically (Markrob refers to a pivot point), then vertical isn't happening.

I'm able to state all of this from real hard data. Actual research and development. Real test cut. I'm not simply stating things that I've read or assumed. Here is why the cones and their rigidity don't matter. The cones are not just floating there held by some tractor beam or something. They connect to something. That something has to have some give to it or there would be zero movement in the transducer. Most transducers have either a flexible membrane or a spring configuration. That spring/membrane would have to be constructed specifically to move primarily along one vector and not to teeter. If there is no resistance to teetering (which is totally unaffected by the rigidity of the cones) then you will not get vertical and will only get rotational movement of the stylus for out of phase signal. Yes, rotational has a very weak vertical component to it and if that is what you want to call stereo, go for it. I don't.... There is no way the Angulo configuration does this. A corollary to this point is that most off the shelf speakers do not have anything in them that prevents teetering. Therefore, using off the shelf speakers as transducers for a 45/45 system is in itself inherently doomed to fail unless your design specifically accounts for this.

This my fellow Trolls is how you give a proper response. I don't quote from other peoples work. I don't make allusions to work I've done that I have no proof of. I explain things from the bottom up in real world terms. Not academia.

Besides all of this, there are several other humungous issues with this configuration. Can you, Markrob, identify them? I can easily. Let's focus just on the stylus holder, ok? I can detail at least three things that this configuration will do that are totally inconsistent with cutting good clean grooves.
Hi Todd,

There is absolutely no difference between a head that is 45/45 and one that is vertical/lateral. Just rotate your Neumann head 45 degrees and insert the stylus in the new position and you have a vertical/lateral design. Conversely, just rotate the lateral/vertical head 45 degrees and viola, it 45/45! That you can't see that, speaks volumes about your so-called real-world knowledge. If you bothered to check out the patents and other examples I referenced, you would see that ONLY the Sudgen was a vertical/lateral design.

Why you think I'm some ivory tower academic is beyond me. I've been a practicing EE for over 30 years. I'm not trying to promote myself as any sort of guru, super genius, or master innovator. I'm also not trying to promote a product for sale. This subject matter has been a labor of love for me and is strictly a hobby. You are a smart person but have major gaps in your knowledge base. You also have a very thin skin and are quick to pounce on anything you see as a slight. That you responded to my post in such a snotty way is proof of that. I was just trying to point out that there is more than one way to skin a cat and provided some examples to back that up. But you took that as a personal attack and then fired off this rant. I've have been trying not to engage with you because I think it is counterproductive. Let's please agree to ignore each other in the future. You don't like me and I don't like you.

Mark

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opcode66
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36586Unread post opcode66
Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:03 pm

Mark,

You take every opportunity to attempt to point out your perceived deficiencies in my knowledge. You post simply to counter my thoughts and not to add constructively to the thread. That is why I see you the way I do. In addition, you quote a lot of other peoples work often instead of posting your own experiences or insights. Which is I also see you as academic and not real world. I have yet to see any project you have worked on come to reality in any meaningful way, if you really want me to put all the cards on the table...

There absolutely is a difference when you look at things realistically. The heads you are referring to have a very different mechanical structure to them. If that is the case, then they are in fact different. There is no difference from the simplistic standpoint that the angle that separates the two transducers is the same. But, that only tells a fraction of the story. You are overlooking the glaring differences in the rest of the mechanism in order to make that statement. If I rotated the system on a Neumann head, the stylus wouldn't touch disc now would it? So, again, what you are saying is such a simplification of the matter that it hardly warrants this response. But, I'll humor you. If I turned the transducers, then I would have to entirely re-engineer the stylus mechanism, yes? Ok. So, again, apples and oranges. Practical vs hypothetical.

Come on, what else is wrong with this method of holding the stylus? Can't answer?

Todd
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio

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Ciuens
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36587Unread post Ciuens
Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:29 pm

guys, no fights, please. :twisted:
Angulo, I think we're all in the loop. Return the money from your unhappy customer (jesusfwrl) and redesign your cutting head. This forum is full of information from various professionals and hobbyists (like Todd and Markrob, hahaha). I'm sure with a little study, you will get a nice upgrade in your project, but only if you have enough humility. :)

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dimi751
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36588Unread post dimi751
Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:39 pm

Yeah refund Jesus angulo records do the right thing man

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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36629Unread post EpicenterBryan
Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:51 am

Wow, you guys... (Mark and Todd) are intense.

Let me chime in here... this thread is primarily about customers who feel they were ripped off from one seller - ie., they feel they did not receive what they paid for. I think we all agree that this head is a flawed design and is not well constructed.

Additionally, it does not meet specifications presented to the buyers before purchase. An obvious example would be noting the head had feedback which it clearly does not have. Another issue might be the maximum power handling capacity of XXX watts. We all get that, and the list would take pages, but we have all read the list...

We also know that the buyers and the seller are all washing their laundry in public on this forum. It is what it is. My put is that the seller should have done an RMA on the items, refunded the customers, and rethought the design. Although the damage has already been done in public to the sellers reputation, the PR battle could have been won if issues were handled in a timely fashion.

I for one have been reading these "sue me, sue you threads" for weeks it seams. It is all so absurd. No one is suing anyone across boarders over $900 USD. In the US, you could take someone to small claims court. But trying to sue anyone across boarders is ridiculous so I call BS to both the seller and buyer. GROW UP PEOPLE.

For the buyer(s) - you screwed up. Sorry to say - you have no recourse.
For the seller - you will never sell another item in this country if people read these threads. But let me also say that you will never be able to remove negative content from the search engines unless you want to try to sue Google. Good luck with that.l

Your only hope is to correct the situation with your customers, and pray this all goes away. I doubt it will but it's worth trying (or not).

Bryan

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36634Unread post jesusfwrl
Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:07 am

Bryan, my main intention for making this public was to protect others from being scammed in the same way. I did try to discuss this in private with Angulo for around 1 month of constant email communication on my part. I eliminated every possibility of this being a mistake or misunderstanding and Angulo made it very clear that he doesn't want to send me a refund. It is only after all this that it was made public. It would have been far easier for me to not engage in this and not make it public at all.
Its not only about me and Sunkingrecords and the money we personally lost, it is also about the money a lot of other people would continue to loose for years to come if nobody ever made such things public.
Not to mention the frustration aspect.

As for the legal aspect, your comment are a bit naive. I am not a big fan of going to court, but I have been forced to on several occasions recently and even though the money that can be gained is not nearly enough to justify the effort and time spent, it is a useful method of getting dodgy people out of the way.

Unfortunately, too many people nowadays do not go to court over matters they consider small and they don't bother making anything public either, which is really fuelling the increase of scammers. It is not the first time that I receive goods not fit for purpose and I am sure it won't be the last. I don't always get my money back but I always make sure, that nobody else falls for the same scam. This was by far the most extreme scam I haven fallen for though. Not in terms of the money involved, but in how totally different the product was from what was advertised.
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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rsimms3
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 36637Unread post rsimms3
Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:09 am

I think another good point as an aside to all this is to use a payment method that you have recourse with if there are problems. PayPal gives you 180 days (6 months) to file a claim on purchases if the item(s) do not meet with the buyers satisfaction. Just file a claim and PayPal will take care of the rest. There is a caveat, you must use the regular payment service and not the gift option. Have the seller send an invoice, pay with a credit card, and you are set. If it's past 6 months and you paid with a credit card, call the credit card company regarding a chargeback against PayPal who will in turn seek out the seller for reimbursement. If a seller asks you to pay with the cash option through PayPal, say no. If the seller insists, pay extra so the seller gets the price they want after fees and you get protection. I think you can request a chargeback through your credit card company up to a year, possibly longer.

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Steve E.
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 37214Unread post Steve E.
Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:30 am

On Facebook, Angulo Records has changed the title of its page to "Vinyl Disc Recorder." The link to it has not changed.

https://www.facebook.com/AnguloRecords
Screen shot 2015-09-10 at 10.26.10 AM.png
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Steve E.
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 37215Unread post Steve E.
Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:39 am

Screen shot 2015-09-10 at 10.37.00 AM.png
Screen shot 2015-09-10 at 10.37.16 AM.png
This looks an awful lot like groove bunching.
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Steve E.
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Re: Scam warning: Angulo Records

Post: # 37216Unread post Steve E.
Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:43 am

Australia has all the luck.
Screen shot 2015-09-10 at 10.40.05 AM.png
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