Gakken Toy Record Maker: Ovservations and Questions

[dreadyc]

Hi! To emboss it is the circular motion 180, yes. Original blanks are made from PETG if i remember right.

[deepwhite]

Hi guys, this is Arys Chien from Taiwan. Glad to be here.

I got my Teenage Engineering's version of the Gakken Toy Record Maker last month. As a hobbyist I love the lo-fi sound and am satisfied with the way it is and sounds.

The only concern is that I don't want to think about the limited amount of blank vinyl and cutting needles when I'm experimenting or cutting vinyl. TE says there might be new supply in the near future but that's not a promise; I found some on eBay but they too are limited in quantity and the price is much higher.

Is there any replacement for the cutting needle and blank vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Arys Chien

[markrob]

Hi,

I flip the stylus 180 degrees and emboss on CD-R blanks rather than cut. They stylus lasts quite long and the blanks are cheap. You will have to make a simple adaptor to reduce the center hole of the CD-R to the standard record hole diameter. I 3D print them. Here is an STL file I created that works well. You will probably need to add some weight to the cutting arm to get decent groove depth. I also remove the adjustable spring assembly since it is used to reduce the down force.

CD Spacer v2.zip

Mark

[deepwhite]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the tip. I've listened to the result of your mod in another thread and it is amazing. Unfortunately I don't think I'm capable of doing that myself, but what you're suggesting here, flipping the stylus 180 degrees, should be doable even for someone like me. I got a 3D printer myself so I should be able to print the CD Spacer too.

By the way have you tried the black blank CD-ROMs? I think using them would be even cooler since they'll look more like vinyl, and would be easier to find sleeves / jackets than 5 inch vinyl.

Last but not least, what do "emboss" mean? I'm not a native English speaker so pardon my poor understanding.

Arys

[markrob]

Hi,

Instead of removing material, you basically empress or indent a groove. Does that make sense?

Mark

[deepwhite]

Hi,
Instead of removing material, you basically empress or indent a groove. Does that make sense?
Mark

Hi Mark,

Do you mean that with "embossing", nothing is removed from the blank, only hard-pressed? I think I get it. Thanks.

Also, is there any other part, that is continuously in stock / available, that we can use to replace Gakken TRM's cutting needle?

Arys

[markrob]

Hi,
Yes. I think you have the idea.

I'm doing a bunch of hacking to the PO-80. I've updated the motor on mine with a small NEMA 14 stepper and Arduino based controller. Its not quite ready for prime time yet, but keep an eye out in the thread I've been posting to on this subject. I'm also looking to design an updated stylus that can take Mike Dixon's embossing cones and others that use standard 1/16" shanks like used on the Presto , Grampian, etc. heads. So far, I've found that the stylus lasts quite a long time when reversed to emboss and you get an extra with the PO-80.

Mark

[deepwhite]

Hi Mike,

Thanks. I really love this little toy. Hope you're successful about the mod so that we can all be free from the limited stock of parts.

Arys

[studio2n]

Hi all,

Got the Gakken last week after watching some of ethic radios embossing results on YouTube. Anyway hoping one of you guys might be able to help me out,
the Gakken sounds fine when I have it switched to cutting but when I have it on playback it emits a loud humming/static type sound. I was pretty careful putting it together
so I am hoping its not my fault, this is my second kit, the first one was missing a piece soo I really don't want to have to send it back.

Thanks

[concreteutopia]

Hi,

I flip the stylus 180 degrees and emboss on CD-R blanks rather than cut. They stylus lasts quite long and the blanks are cheap. You will have to make a simple adaptor to reduce the center hole of the CD-R to the standard record hole diameter. I 3D print them. Here is an STL file I created that works well. You will probably need to add some weight to the cutting arm to get decent groove depth. I also remove the adjustable spring assembly since it is used to reduce the down force.

CD Spacer v2.zip

Mark

Hi Mark- after removing the spring assembly, how much weight are you adding and where is it attached on the cutting head?

I tried embossing with blanq discs and about .9 cm distance on the spring and the results were not good…super quiet, really thin sounding, no bass at all. Noise level seemed to be ok, but it was hard to tell. Cutting with the Gakken supplied blanks sounds much, much better. I’m playing everything back on my regular turntables setup. Also looking forward to details about the stylus hack when you have them. Thanks!

[markrob]

Hi,

I don't have much experience with the stock head. I am using my head, electronics and cutting software, so its hard to compare. I am also using CD blanks for all my testing. Because of the extreme amount of high frequency EQ and peak power I am using, I drive my head with a 50 watt amp which can put out 100 watt short duration peak power. The average power to the head is typically under 2 watts. The embossed levels are much lower than a commercial record, but I can live with low levels with much better fidelity.

The weight required to emboss varies and needs to be established by some trial and error. Until recently, I was adding 3 US quarters (about 18g total) right at the end of the cutting arm with a little holder and clamp I made (see the attached photo). I completely removed the down force spring assembly from the arm. IIRc, I measured about 40g down force. That was giving me good low noise results until recently when I started to hear it rise quite a bit. I removed them and the noise returned back to the levels I was getting earlier. I suspect the stylus has worn in an now requires less weight. I've embossed close to 100 CD's in my testing so far. The trade off is groove depth vs noise. I think the sweet spot will vary based on the material and the stylus.

The bass has not been much of an issue for me. All of the EQ needed is in the upper frequency ranges. But don't be afraid to experiment. It may be that embossing adds more mechanical loading than the stock driver and amp can compensate for. The on board amp is only 5W, so you don't have much reserve power to play with. In this case, you will either have to go back to cutting or go down my rabbit hole of ditching the internal electronics and rolling your own signal path. That was the reason I decided to replace the stock drive with my own. I am not afraid to burn my driver up because I can make a new on for a low cost and some 3D printing time.

My PO80.jpg

[concreteutopia]

Hi,

I don't have much experience with the stock head. I am using my head, electronics and cutting software, so its hard to compare. I am also using CD blanks for all my testing. Because of the extreme amount of high frequency EQ and peak power I am using, I drive my head with a 50 watt amp which can put out 100 watt short duration peak power. The average power to the head is typically under 2 watts. The embossed levels are much lower than a commercial record, but I can live with low levels with much better fidelity.

The weight required to emboss varies and needs to be established by some trial and error. Until recently, I was adding 3 US quarters (about 18g total) right at the end of the cutting arm with a little holder and clamp I made (see the attached photo). I completely removed the down force spring assembly from the arm. IIRc, I measured about 40g down force. That was giving me good low noise results until recently when I started to hear it rise quite a bit. I removed them and the noise returned back to the levels I was getting earlier. I suspect the stylus has worn in an now requires less weight. I've embossed close to 100 CD's in my testing so far. The trade off is groove depth vs noise. I think the sweet spot will vary based on the material and the stylus.

The bass has not been much of an issue for me. All of the EQ needed is in the upper frequency ranges. But don't be afraid to experiment. It may be that embossing adds more mechanical loading than the stock driver and amp can compensate for. The on board amp is only 5W, so you don't have much reserve power to play with. In this case, you will either have to go back to cutting or go down my rabbit hole of ditching the internal electronics and rolling your own signal path. That was the reason I decided to replace the stock drive with my own. I am not afraid to burn my driver up because I can make a new on for a low cost and some 3D printing time.

My PO80.jpg

Thanks! I have a spare Gakken kit that I have not built yet and I think I'll use it for embossing experiments using the stock head. As far as EQing, I am using the TE mastering tool they have on their website. Not 100% certain what it might be doing other than an IRIAA curve. And also not sure if it's suitable for embossing vs cutting. Have you used that in your embossing tests or were you using your own method? Does EQ for embossing typically differ from cutting?

I found your other thread, lots of great stuff there! any chance you'll be posting a step-by-step for people who are new to lathes, electronics & 3D printing? Did you build your amp or was it something you bought from parts-express?

[markrob]

Hi,

I actually sent a file with with white noise to the on-line mastering app just to see what it was doing. There was some high frequency EQ going on. They kept it mild given the limited power on the PO80. I think there was some compression added as well.

I rolled my own set of electronics (you can see them in the photo) and also replaced the platter motor with a NEMA 14 stepper to give more torque, better speed control, and lower wow and flutter. I am using a low cost off the shelf 50 watt amp board based on the TI TPA3318 amp chip. I am experimenting with a novel design that lets me use a 24 V .5 amp wall wart (6 watts total) but still give me 100 watt peak power and provide power the stepper controller. Its working well, but I'm not sure its worth the effort since you can get 100 watt amps so cheaply now (just wanted to see if could be done). Here is a link to the amp board I'm using:

https://www.amazon.com/XLX-TPA3118-Amplifier-Converter-Speakers/dp/B07Q6RGVHQ

My motor control board uses an Arduino Nano and an off the shelf TMC2209 stepper driver board. I allow for speed control (+/-5%) and half speed mastering. I also included a better preamp for the playback pickup that drives a headphone amp. You can now monitor while you cut.

I've developed a cutting system set of two apps (PC based) that lets you calibrate a head via test cuts and develop custom EQ's. It allows you to monitor peak and average power and has a built in limiter along with high and low pass filters. I'm still working out all of the bugs and operational issues and if I get things into a decent shape I will share all of it. Below is a screen shot of the recording software. Its been quite a bit of work, but I'm learning and enjoying the ride. I have an second app that is used to develop the head EQ.

PO80 Screenshot.png

[concreteutopia]

Hi,

I actually sent a file with with white noise to the on-line mastering app just to see what it was doing. There was some high frequency EQ going on. They kept it mild given the limited power on the PO80. I think there was some compression added as well.

I rolled my own set of electronics (you can see them in the photo) and also replaced the platter motor with a NEMA 14 stepper to give more torque, better speed control, and lower wow and flutter. I am using a low cost off the shelf 50 watt amp board based on the TI TPA3318 amp chip. I am experimenting with a novel design that lets me use a 24 V .5 amp wall wart (6 watts total) but still give me 100 watt peak power and provide power the stepper controller. Its working well, but I'm not sure its worth the effort since you can get 100 watt amps so cheaply now (just wanted to see if could be done). Here is a link to the amp board I'm using:

https://www.amazon.com/XLX-TPA3118-Amplifier-Converter-Speakers/dp/B07Q6RGVHQ

My motor control board uses an Arduino Nano and an off the shelf TMC2209 stepper driver board. I allow for speed control (+/-5%) and half speed mastering. I also included a better preamp for the playback pickup that drives a headphone amp. You can now monitor while you cut.

I've developed a cutting system set of two apps (PC based) that lets you calibrate a head via test cuts and develop custom EQ's. It allows you to monitor peak and average power and has a built in limiter along with high and low pass filters. I'm still working out all of the bugs and operational issues and if I get things into a decent shape I will share all of it. Below is a screen shot of the recording software. Its been quite a bit of work, but I'm learning and enjoying the ride. I have an second app that is used to develop the head EQ.

PO80 Screenshot.png

i'm looking forward to hearing more about your experiments and possible tutorial! i wonder if it could be somehow adapted with 3d printing and a donor turntable to cut / emboss larger records like 7" or even 12"...

[markrob]

Hi,

I think that would probably be too much of a leap. By that time, you would be better off designing a lathe from scratch. You get quite a bit of mechanical stuff with the PO80 that would need to be scaled up.

Mark

[pennstate913]

Hi,

I think that would probably be too much of a leap. By that time, you would be better off designing a lathe from scratch. You get quite a bit of mechanical stuff with the PO80 that would need to be scaled up.

Mark

To be fair Markrob..youre basically there lol

[CutR]

i'm looking forward to hearing more about your experiments and possible tutorial! i wonder if it could be somehow adapted with 3d printing and a donor turntable to cut / emboss larger records like 7" or even 12"...

If you want to build something full size i would forget the Gakken/PO-80 and check out pentlandsound DIY build which you can build yourself. full instructions provided.
https://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?p=60434#p60434

[deepwhite]

Hi guys, I just embossed on the stock blank vinyl for the first time. It is quieter than cutting, but I noticed obvious wobbling going on, all the time. What should I do to tame that wobbling? Thanks.

Link to the video with the wobbling sound: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uw0zgrm1jbtgprv/PO-80%20Emboss%20Wobble.mov?dl=0

[PlasticParty]

Just received my gakken today.

I had a quick look at it but already see a few areas of improvement. Firstly there seems to be a lot of play on the top platter that is connected to the inner pulley. Has anybody tried adding a metal top to the platter to add some more inertia and platter strength? My only concern would be if the motor could rotate it easily enough. Is the major flutters caused by belt slippage or not enough torque in the motor? If its belt slippage then a stretched rubber band around the circumference of the inner platter pulley will help this. I did this to my PT01-scratch to improve the belt slippage.

[CutR]

Hi guys, I just embossed on the stock blank vinyl for the first time. It is quieter than cutting, but I noticed obvious wobbling going on, all the time. What should I do to tame that wobbling? Thanks.

Link to the video with the wobbling sound: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uw0zgrm1jbtgprv/PO-80%20Emboss%20Wobble.mov?dl=0

Try White Lithium Grease on the cutting arm track and reduction gears.