options: buy a plant, or a mastering solution...? Help!?

[mossboss]

Hi all
I have not being on for a While here had to shift my vinyl pressing plant to new premises so have been rather busy
This is a brilliant thread I must admit. I am one of the only fully fledged vinyl pressing plants here in Australia I do know Ozzie personally in actual fact we have two of his presses that he owned some time back They are Alpha Toolex machines We also have a plating room as well as a cutting room so in a funny way we have ALL the problems that most pressing plants around have passed on to others I will not argue or support about anything that has been said in this thread All I am going to say is that we produce about 2-3000 records per week and we know all about it We cut we plate we press we listen to praises as well as complains It is all part of the game and that is how it is and that is how it has always been since the major labels let go of the vinyl game and it was left up to pressing plant owners to look after themselves in any way they could Lets be realistic The demands of most vinyl lovers today do not relate to what the medium is capable of They seem to have this notion that it should be far superior to CD the sound of a single pop even in the lead in groove will turn them into very angry people
On the other hand well you get the guys that say this is absolutely marvelous thank you very much I love it and so on
So is there a simple answer to all these pro's and con's in this thread
Of course there is You cant have an omelette unless you break some eggs So what are we to do stop trying to deliver the best one is capable of doing? The comment made that plating guys deserve admiration is quite apt Also producing a flat record all the time is a hard act to follow Sounding good as it should be with the limitations of the raw material available is a challenge Cadmium and lead that was a common additive to PVC record compound in days gone past has now being eliminated from the material available today Colored records pressed from clear vinyl sound like a Flexi or worse When the plating baths go out of kilter for reasons only known to themselves is all hell to play with The "black art" in the plating has died out or nearly so The additions we do in our plating baths puts our plating materials supplier in a state of frenzy telling us that we are mad Follow their advise you get s..t out of them the baths that is So we just buy our Nickel from them and we do our thing We make masters mothers stampers or converts We form them and we proceed to pressing So if any one is reading this it goes something like this I am 61 yo Done my time at a pressing plant 40 or more years ago back into it now and it goes something like this 50% experience 25% knowledge and 25% Black art. Warning Not all of the of the percentages apply at all times Finally If any one wishes to have a first hand account of what it takes I can offer them free apprenticeship and training here in sunny Melbourne Australia No pay plenty of fun lots of music of all genres Metal a specialty as well as Hip Hop and dance so any takers bring your own beer and some for us and share the good stuff as well as the headf...s Cheers C.M

[NottinghamToolexAlpha]

HI All - It's Boxing day -And Ive just finished the busiest 3 months of my life - And I only press 2-3000 a week- albeit I pack and ship them all as well...
Great to see there are more of us still in buisness Mossbros - and on the other side of the world to boot! So many small pressing houses are going the way of the wind - with 3 going down this year!

Love it when the guys come up to have a look at their order being made - kinda gives you a real buzz- they all think of it like " Art " - suppose it is , really...albeit , a "DARK" one.......
Hope 2009 goes well for you guys down there...
All The best from these shores, CC.

[W.B.]

i am still trying to learn to tell how a record was cut-on a scully or neumann etc

Records cut on Scullys - especially on post-1950 lathes (including post-1955 Model 601) with variable pitch knobs - are easy to spot a mile away due to the spacing of the lead-in and lead-out grooves, and on some records (depending on the studio), anywhere from one-half to as many as three turns of "catch" groove in-between the lead-out and the concentric locked groove. The spacings, I've determined, were like this (all in lpi):
Lead-ins / "Spirals": 32.3125, 15.583333..., 14.729167..., 7.625 (first three pitches also used for catch grooves) - fast / slow grouping possibilities as follows:
- 7.625 / 14.729167...
- 7.625 / 15.583333...
- 7.625 / 32.3125
- 14.729167... / 32.3125
- 15.583333... / 32.3125
Lead-outs Based on fast / slow (or as circa 1950 Scullys designated them, "45 finishings / 4 pitch"), different lathes had these pitches:
- 2.3 / 4.62 (confirmed use in four studios - all RCA, in New York, Chicago, Toronto and Italy)
- 2.14 / 4.17
- 2.04 / 3.92
- 1.98 / 3.84
- 1.92 / 3.69
- 1.84 / 3.48
That last-cited set was applicable to lacquers cut on Rudy Van Gelder's Scully, as well as by at least two RCA studios (New York and Montreal) and a few others.

Scully 501's (with 88-136 lpi gearbox) are a different duck altogether. Most Columbia 45's cut between 1951 and 1966 in New York were made on that type lathe, with additional pitches of 150-234 lpi (up or down by increments of 14), plus cutting 1.5x at 132-204 and 225-351 lpi. Their Nashville studios (ex Bradley Recording Studios) had, up to 1973, a mono Scully 501 whose basic pitch was the same (and also cutting 1.5x pitch), but the lead-in and -out spacing differed from the 501 they had in New York.

Neumann-cut lacquers likewise can be gauged in terms of the appearance of lead-in, lead-out, etc. AM-32's were used from 1961 well into the '70's by RCA's New York studios for stereo LP's and 45's, and MGM in New York cut stereo lacquers on that lathe too. The VMS-66 lathe was used in many studios ranging from Sterling Sound to Capitol's Hollywood studios (lacquers with "F" codes starting in fall 1969). Basically, many times lead-ins had a fast-moving pitch settling down to slower pitch before landing stationarily to the outer groove diameter on that lathe and the VMS-70. The lead-outs moved smoother (gradating a bit in the beginning and end), unlike the more mechanical lead-outs characteristic of post-'50 Scullys.

In sum, it's all in how they look that determines on which lathe they were cut. Sound-wise, of course, they were all over the place; anywhere from Westrex to RCA to Presto to Grampian to Ortofon to Neumann.

[Serif]

I'll not gainsay MossBoss who is experienced enough to know what he's talking about. He is obviously trying to be understood and is, therefore, using the slang of audio people. However, this slang is usually pointing at a trade on one's immediate left, rather than pointing at what one is actually doing (not sure why this is so rampant). Mastering is done, underwater, between the anode and the cathode of a Brugnatelli cell, rather than on a platter, which is technically where a grandmother is cut... Just do the disc geneology and see for yourself. The master is what is pulled out of the (first) bath. Not what is put in. Engineers are usually merely auto-didacts, rather than those with degrees from schools. Galvanizers are not galvanizers. Etc...

I feel it is important to indicate to fellow trolls that no one making stampers is doing electroplating. A plated master is one that can't be parted from the disposable mandrel. It has to be passivated before electrodeposition to prevent plating if a form is to be usefully parted. This is why it's called electroforming. Both electroplating and electroforming are versions of electrodeposition. However, plating is a fail if you are trying to form a partable stamper. The aqueous solution used by the electroformer has to be much more free of contaminants than that of the electroplater. About 5 ppm max. impure is the goal. The trade should be called partforming, rather than plating. This is not being picky or prissy. It's about accuracy and honesty. Plating rolls more easily off the tongue - as does, Mastering. But anyone who is not using a Brugnatelli cell is not quite mastering. He is definitely premastering. See "Mastering Audio," by Bob Katz, pp. 17 and 18 for the fine print confession. Mastering is a common nick-name. But I don't work for Ol' Nick. get me?



- Andrew