Noise question
Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn
Re: Noise question
I tried again after six months off, and the results are the same, bad:
Here is a link to audio:
http://archive.org/details/NoiseInVinyliumDubcutter4-13-2013
Both clips were recorded from first playback. Again, this is a Kingston Dubcutter with a sapphire stylus on a Technics 1200.
I could hear the noise pattern somewhat on the silent cut when I monitored the cut in Feedback mode.
Please, if anyone can offer some ideas on what the problem is...
Also, the stylus is relatively new and was cleaned with acetone before the cuts.
Here is a link to audio:
http://archive.org/details/NoiseInVinyliumDubcutter4-13-2013
Both clips were recorded from first playback. Again, this is a Kingston Dubcutter with a sapphire stylus on a Technics 1200.
I could hear the noise pattern somewhat on the silent cut when I monitored the cut in Feedback mode.
Please, if anyone can offer some ideas on what the problem is...
Also, the stylus is relatively new and was cleaned with acetone before the cuts.
-
Angus McCarthy
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:22 pm
- Location: Bloomsburg, PA, USA
Re: Noise question
That's sounds pretty similar to the swooshing I get on my 6N due to platter runout.
Re: Noise question
not evenly the plate works , buy the dial gauge and measure the equableness of the work of the plate
the error cannot cross 0,005 mms
in eg. Neumann VMS 70 the proof-reader the pressure regulate electromagnets , and in Neumann VMS82 the engine of the direct current situated in the box , on the circuit of the engine , at silkiku and the afterbody are situated sensors HALLA which make the measurement the perpendicular position and transmit data to the deck- computer , ad quem also brought is the sum of signals L and P from the transducer of analogously digital after converting on the digital signal and renewed converting on the analog signal and the direct current given is on the executive arrangement , after the confusion of signals , servo the mechanism of the situated engine on the axis of the inclination CUTTER HEAD regulates with the pressure of the knife on biting the plate , not according as the power of the pressure one can regulate by hand , but the process of the stabilization takes place automatically
polski :
nie równo pracuje talerz , kup czujnik zegarowy i zmierz równomierność pracy talerza
błąd nie może przekraczać 0,005 mm
w np. Neumann VMS 70 korektor nacisk regulują elektromagnesy , a w Neumann VMS82 silnik prądu stałego umieszczony w puszce , na obwodzie silnika , przy silkiku i tylnej części umieszczone są czujniki HALLA które dokonują pomiaru pionowego położenia i przekazują dane do komputera pokładowego , do którego też doprowadzona jest suma sygnałów L i P z przetwornika analogowo cyfrowego po przetworzeniu na sygnał cyfrowy i ponownym przetworzeniu na sygnał analogowy i prądu stałego podawany jest na układ wykonawczy , po zmieszaniu sygnałów , servo mechanizm silnika umieszczonego na oś pochylenia CUTTER HEAD reguluje naciskiem noża na cięta płytę , nie zależnie od tego siłę nacisku można regulować ręcznie , ale proces stabilizacji dokonuje się automatycznie
the error cannot cross 0,005 mms
in eg. Neumann VMS 70 the proof-reader the pressure regulate electromagnets , and in Neumann VMS82 the engine of the direct current situated in the box , on the circuit of the engine , at silkiku and the afterbody are situated sensors HALLA which make the measurement the perpendicular position and transmit data to the deck- computer , ad quem also brought is the sum of signals L and P from the transducer of analogously digital after converting on the digital signal and renewed converting on the analog signal and the direct current given is on the executive arrangement , after the confusion of signals , servo the mechanism of the situated engine on the axis of the inclination CUTTER HEAD regulates with the pressure of the knife on biting the plate , not according as the power of the pressure one can regulate by hand , but the process of the stabilization takes place automatically
polski :
nie równo pracuje talerz , kup czujnik zegarowy i zmierz równomierność pracy talerza
błąd nie może przekraczać 0,005 mm
w np. Neumann VMS 70 korektor nacisk regulują elektromagnesy , a w Neumann VMS82 silnik prądu stałego umieszczony w puszce , na obwodzie silnika , przy silkiku i tylnej części umieszczone są czujniki HALLA które dokonują pomiaru pionowego położenia i przekazują dane do komputera pokładowego , do którego też doprowadzona jest suma sygnałów L i P z przetwornika analogowo cyfrowego po przetworzeniu na sygnał cyfrowy i ponownym przetworzeniu na sygnał analogowy i prądu stałego podawany jest na układ wykonawczy , po zmieszaniu sygnałów , servo mechanizm silnika umieszczonego na oś pochylenia CUTTER HEAD reguluje naciskiem noża na cięta płytę , nie zależnie od tego siłę nacisku można regulować ręcznie , ale proces stabilizacji dokonuje się automatycznie
Re: Noise question
Thanks for the information, it's a bit too technical for me and lost in translation.
Can someone help me understand what the spectrum analysis is saying about the noise?
Can someone help me understand what the spectrum analysis is saying about the noise?
Re: Noise question
btw, i read the whole thread on platter runout under "dial indicator platter lathe turntable" and maybe that's the situation.
in my particular setup, I have to add quite a bit of support under the cutting surface to make the stylus hit the surface, and that probably increases the error in the platter runout, because i'm not using some precision machined plate. I wonder if a precision machined plate would help.
in my particular setup, I have to add quite a bit of support under the cutting surface to make the stylus hit the surface, and that probably increases the error in the platter runout, because i'm not using some precision machined plate. I wonder if a precision machined plate would help.
Re: Noise question
this what you see on the removal of the analyser of the sound spectrum
1 . on left hand from the frequency from 0 to 30 Hz are the due noise with following mechanisms
and. from 0, 5 Hz to 5 Hz the noise of the engine and vibrations of the plate caused with the jumpering of phases in COIL of the motor winding DD the direct drive , this engine possesses three phases and is the direct current DC , under a plate TECHNICS is the magnet the rotor which takes the power delivered by COIL the situated stator on the plate with the electronics , thus if only you reproduce the music from vinyl plate then the weight , the resistance , on the engine is very small and then the engine works lightly and without surcharges , the engine then works silently and has very small vibrations own , smaller than -70dB in your gramophone Technics , and further when you record , you cut the plate the resistance on the engine is very large , practically the engine Technics should jump the quartz- synchronization , the power of your engine Technics is to a maximum 1, 5kg /cm , is then very few cuttable , but whips , this engine during cuts with the large weight gets strongly into the ass , the quartz- regulation of turns inspects turns of the engine , if the phasic [ comparisons of phases ] equality circuit acknowledges that turns even slightly come down this the then analogous executive arrangement gives a lot currents to COIL of the engine , adds on to a maximum the current and the plate begins to turn round so as orders him the electronic arrangement the closed loop PLL Kwarc , in the moment when becoming crossed critical border of the engine power Technics then the plate will slow down , as result of of such surcharges the engine trembles , trembles also the plate of the gramophone and during the recording all that is recorded on the plate varnish
this occurrence you can only lightly level using the felt- mat , but not too high because you will have problems with the drive of the move CUTTER HEAD
b. of the twitch , the noise from 5 to 30 Hz is the due noise with the drive Vinilium , not to the elimination , the simply such kind of the equipment and the quality , forgive...
The noise which you hear as not the steady noise , is due this that the plate has its own deviations , so called punctual and pointwise causes the light lifting cutter head , what causes the change of the pressure of the knife on the plate and then the knife cuts out deeper grooves , that that the radiator will not have time to burn slightly varnish , and comes into being the noise , a reason also sometimes this is that the plate varnish can be been by too hard or to have consequential disfigurements from the process of the exercise of these plates , the occurrence of this noise is very difficult to the elimination , is then a greatest problem for masters MASTERING VINYL
however in your chance you can him a little level like this that you must use the second plate eg acrylic or glass- , must be thin about the thickness 2-3mm , laws {place} of him on three rests on the circuit of the plate TECHNICS , afterwards laws {place} the micrometric sensor 0,001 mms , and check which you have a deviation , if it crosses 0,005 mms you must use different rests of the thickness , till you will obtain the required exactitude , this is the operation very difficult and arduous exercible but one can perform her
In spite that you have these noises , the quality of the recording is very much goods , except for the fact that the device CUTTER DUBVINILIUM is an equipment compactly unprofessional , under no circumstances do not expect such quality of the recording as sa recorded , lettered industrial vinyl plates , according to my research from these and similar DUBCUTTER you can to a maximum reach the quality only 30% this , what can be reached on NEUMANN VMS , let alone DMM , DDM this is the total departure of the quality of canned music , the level of the dynamics in very good canned music DMM reaches 90 dB , the high grade of the plate CD 130dB digital , dubcutter can have super already on the border 30 dB
But thus is well in your event
język polski :to co widzisz na zdjęciu analizatora widma akustycznego
1 . po lewej stronie od częstotliwości od 0 do 30 Hz to hałas spowodowany następującymi mechanizmami
a. od 0,5 Hz do 5 Hz hałas silnika i wibracje talerza powodowane przełączaniem faz w COIL uzwojenia silnika DD napęd bezpośredni , silnik ten posiada trzy fazy i jest prądu stałego DC , pod talerzem TECHNICS jest magnes rotor , który odbiera moc przekazywaną przez COIL stator umieszczony na płycie z elektroniką , i tak jeśli tylko odtwarzasz muzykę z płyty winylowej to obciążenie , opór , na silnik jest bardzo mały i wtedy silnik pracuje lekko i bez przeciążeń , silnik wtedy pracuje cicho i ma bardzo małe wibracje własne , mniejsze niż -70dB w twoim gramofonie Technics , i dalej kiedy nagrywasz ,tniesz płytę opór na silnik jest bardzo duży , praktycznie silnik Technics powinien wyskakiwać z synchronizacji kwarcowej , moc twojego silnika Technics to maksymalnie 1,5kg /cm , to jest bardzo mało do cięcia ,ale daje radę , silnik ten w czasie cięcia z dużym obciążeniem dostaje mocno w dupę ,kwarcowa regulacja obrotów kontroluje obroty silnika , jeśli układ porównawczy fazowy [ porównania faz ] uznaje że obroty nawet minimalnie spadają to wtedy analogowy układ wykonawczy podaje dużo prądu do COIL silnika , dodaje na maksymalnie prądu i talerz zaczyna obracać się tak jak każe mu układ elektroniczny zamknięta pętla PLL Kwarc , w momencie kiedy zostanie przekroczona krytyczna granica mocy silnika Technics to talerz będzie zwalniał , w wyniku takich przeciążeń silnik drży ,drży również talerz gramofonu i w czasie zapisu wszystko to jest zapisywane na płycie lakier
to zjawisko możesz tylko lekko zniwelować stosując matę filcową , ale nie zbyt wysoko bo będziesz miał problemy z napędem przesuwu CUTTER HEAD
b. drgania , hałas od 5 do 30 Hz to hałas spowodowany przekładnią Vinilium , nie do wyeliminowania , po prostu taki rodzaj sprzętu i jakości , wybacz...
Hałas , który słyszysz jako nie równomierny szum , jest spowodowany tym ,że talerz ma swoje odchylenia , tak zwane punktowe i punktowo powoduje lekkie podnoszenie cutter head , co powoduje zmianę nacisku noża na płytę i wtedy nóż wycina głębsze rowki , do tego stopnia ,że grzejnik nie zdąży nadpalić lakier , i powstaje szum , powodem też czasem jest to ,że płyta lakier może być zbyt twarda lub mieć zniekształcenia wynikające z procesu wykonywania tych płyt , zjawisko tego szumu jest bardzo trudne do wyeliminowania , to jest największym problemem dla mistrzów MASTERING VINYL
jednak w twoim przypadku możesz go nieco zniwelować w ten sposób ,że musisz zastosować drugi talerz np akrylowy lub szklany , musi być cienki o grubości 2-3mm , ustaw go na trzech podkładkach na obwodzie talerza TECHNICS , potem ustaw czujnik mikrometryczny 0,001 mm , i sprawdzaj jakie masz odchylenie , jeśli przekracza 0,005 mm musisz stosować różne podkładki grubości , aż uzyskasz wymaganą dokładność , jest to operacja bardzo trudna i żmudna do wykonania ale można ją wykonać
Pomimo ,że masz te szumy , jakość nagrania jest bardzo dobra , pomijając fakt ,że urządzenie CUTTER DUBVINILIUM jest sprzętem ściśle amatorskim , w żadnym wypadku nie spodziewaj się takiej jakości nagrania jak sa nagrane , wytłoczone fabryczne płyty winylowe , według moich badań z tych i podobnych DUBCUTTER możesz maksymalnie osiągnąć jakość tylko 30% tego , co można osiągnąć na NEUMANN VMS , nie mówiąc już o DMM , DDM to jest totalny odjazd jakości nagrań , poziom dynamiki w bardzo dobrych nagraniach DMM sięga 90 dB , wysokiej jakości płyty CD 130dB digital , dubcutter może mieć super już na granicy 30 dB
Ale i tak jest dobrze w twoim wypadku
1 . on left hand from the frequency from 0 to 30 Hz are the due noise with following mechanisms
and. from 0, 5 Hz to 5 Hz the noise of the engine and vibrations of the plate caused with the jumpering of phases in COIL of the motor winding DD the direct drive , this engine possesses three phases and is the direct current DC , under a plate TECHNICS is the magnet the rotor which takes the power delivered by COIL the situated stator on the plate with the electronics , thus if only you reproduce the music from vinyl plate then the weight , the resistance , on the engine is very small and then the engine works lightly and without surcharges , the engine then works silently and has very small vibrations own , smaller than -70dB in your gramophone Technics , and further when you record , you cut the plate the resistance on the engine is very large , practically the engine Technics should jump the quartz- synchronization , the power of your engine Technics is to a maximum 1, 5kg /cm , is then very few cuttable , but whips , this engine during cuts with the large weight gets strongly into the ass , the quartz- regulation of turns inspects turns of the engine , if the phasic [ comparisons of phases ] equality circuit acknowledges that turns even slightly come down this the then analogous executive arrangement gives a lot currents to COIL of the engine , adds on to a maximum the current and the plate begins to turn round so as orders him the electronic arrangement the closed loop PLL Kwarc , in the moment when becoming crossed critical border of the engine power Technics then the plate will slow down , as result of of such surcharges the engine trembles , trembles also the plate of the gramophone and during the recording all that is recorded on the plate varnish
this occurrence you can only lightly level using the felt- mat , but not too high because you will have problems with the drive of the move CUTTER HEAD
b. of the twitch , the noise from 5 to 30 Hz is the due noise with the drive Vinilium , not to the elimination , the simply such kind of the equipment and the quality , forgive...
The noise which you hear as not the steady noise , is due this that the plate has its own deviations , so called punctual and pointwise causes the light lifting cutter head , what causes the change of the pressure of the knife on the plate and then the knife cuts out deeper grooves , that that the radiator will not have time to burn slightly varnish , and comes into being the noise , a reason also sometimes this is that the plate varnish can be been by too hard or to have consequential disfigurements from the process of the exercise of these plates , the occurrence of this noise is very difficult to the elimination , is then a greatest problem for masters MASTERING VINYL
however in your chance you can him a little level like this that you must use the second plate eg acrylic or glass- , must be thin about the thickness 2-3mm , laws {place} of him on three rests on the circuit of the plate TECHNICS , afterwards laws {place} the micrometric sensor 0,001 mms , and check which you have a deviation , if it crosses 0,005 mms you must use different rests of the thickness , till you will obtain the required exactitude , this is the operation very difficult and arduous exercible but one can perform her
In spite that you have these noises , the quality of the recording is very much goods , except for the fact that the device CUTTER DUBVINILIUM is an equipment compactly unprofessional , under no circumstances do not expect such quality of the recording as sa recorded , lettered industrial vinyl plates , according to my research from these and similar DUBCUTTER you can to a maximum reach the quality only 30% this , what can be reached on NEUMANN VMS , let alone DMM , DDM this is the total departure of the quality of canned music , the level of the dynamics in very good canned music DMM reaches 90 dB , the high grade of the plate CD 130dB digital , dubcutter can have super already on the border 30 dB
But thus is well in your event
język polski :to co widzisz na zdjęciu analizatora widma akustycznego
1 . po lewej stronie od częstotliwości od 0 do 30 Hz to hałas spowodowany następującymi mechanizmami
a. od 0,5 Hz do 5 Hz hałas silnika i wibracje talerza powodowane przełączaniem faz w COIL uzwojenia silnika DD napęd bezpośredni , silnik ten posiada trzy fazy i jest prądu stałego DC , pod talerzem TECHNICS jest magnes rotor , który odbiera moc przekazywaną przez COIL stator umieszczony na płycie z elektroniką , i tak jeśli tylko odtwarzasz muzykę z płyty winylowej to obciążenie , opór , na silnik jest bardzo mały i wtedy silnik pracuje lekko i bez przeciążeń , silnik wtedy pracuje cicho i ma bardzo małe wibracje własne , mniejsze niż -70dB w twoim gramofonie Technics , i dalej kiedy nagrywasz ,tniesz płytę opór na silnik jest bardzo duży , praktycznie silnik Technics powinien wyskakiwać z synchronizacji kwarcowej , moc twojego silnika Technics to maksymalnie 1,5kg /cm , to jest bardzo mało do cięcia ,ale daje radę , silnik ten w czasie cięcia z dużym obciążeniem dostaje mocno w dupę ,kwarcowa regulacja obrotów kontroluje obroty silnika , jeśli układ porównawczy fazowy [ porównania faz ] uznaje że obroty nawet minimalnie spadają to wtedy analogowy układ wykonawczy podaje dużo prądu do COIL silnika , dodaje na maksymalnie prądu i talerz zaczyna obracać się tak jak każe mu układ elektroniczny zamknięta pętla PLL Kwarc , w momencie kiedy zostanie przekroczona krytyczna granica mocy silnika Technics to talerz będzie zwalniał , w wyniku takich przeciążeń silnik drży ,drży również talerz gramofonu i w czasie zapisu wszystko to jest zapisywane na płycie lakier
to zjawisko możesz tylko lekko zniwelować stosując matę filcową , ale nie zbyt wysoko bo będziesz miał problemy z napędem przesuwu CUTTER HEAD
b. drgania , hałas od 5 do 30 Hz to hałas spowodowany przekładnią Vinilium , nie do wyeliminowania , po prostu taki rodzaj sprzętu i jakości , wybacz...
Hałas , który słyszysz jako nie równomierny szum , jest spowodowany tym ,że talerz ma swoje odchylenia , tak zwane punktowe i punktowo powoduje lekkie podnoszenie cutter head , co powoduje zmianę nacisku noża na płytę i wtedy nóż wycina głębsze rowki , do tego stopnia ,że grzejnik nie zdąży nadpalić lakier , i powstaje szum , powodem też czasem jest to ,że płyta lakier może być zbyt twarda lub mieć zniekształcenia wynikające z procesu wykonywania tych płyt , zjawisko tego szumu jest bardzo trudne do wyeliminowania , to jest największym problemem dla mistrzów MASTERING VINYL
jednak w twoim przypadku możesz go nieco zniwelować w ten sposób ,że musisz zastosować drugi talerz np akrylowy lub szklany , musi być cienki o grubości 2-3mm , ustaw go na trzech podkładkach na obwodzie talerza TECHNICS , potem ustaw czujnik mikrometryczny 0,001 mm , i sprawdzaj jakie masz odchylenie , jeśli przekracza 0,005 mm musisz stosować różne podkładki grubości , aż uzyskasz wymaganą dokładność , jest to operacja bardzo trudna i żmudna do wykonania ale można ją wykonać
Pomimo ,że masz te szumy , jakość nagrania jest bardzo dobra , pomijając fakt ,że urządzenie CUTTER DUBVINILIUM jest sprzętem ściśle amatorskim , w żadnym wypadku nie spodziewaj się takiej jakości nagrania jak sa nagrane , wytłoczone fabryczne płyty winylowe , według moich badań z tych i podobnych DUBCUTTER możesz maksymalnie osiągnąć jakość tylko 30% tego , co można osiągnąć na NEUMANN VMS , nie mówiąc już o DMM , DDM to jest totalny odjazd jakości nagrań , poziom dynamiki w bardzo dobrych nagraniach DMM sięga 90 dB , wysokiej jakości płyty CD 130dB digital , dubcutter może mieć super już na granicy 30 dB
Ale i tak jest dobrze w twoim wypadku
Re: Noise question
VMSPoland, in brief, thank you for this incredible mindblowing explanation. I clearly have a lot of work to do, but at least now I understand where the actual problem is. I appreciate your taking the time to get into it. It's very important to me to resolve this. At some point I'd like to get away from this Technics system and move the cutting head to a different lathe.
Re: Noise question
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VESTAX-PDX-3000mkII-PDX-3000-mkII-mk2-PRO-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-/280659209242
New York
this gramophone VESTAX possesses tacho optical , is 100% better , only compare measurements whether it will fit on VINILIUM
polski :ten gramofon VESTAX posiada tacho optyczne , jest 100% lepszy , tylko porównaj wymiary czy będzie pasował na VINILIUM
New York
this gramophone VESTAX possesses tacho optical , is 100% better , only compare measurements whether it will fit on VINILIUM
polski :ten gramofon VESTAX posiada tacho optyczne , jest 100% lepszy , tylko porównaj wymiary czy będzie pasował na VINILIUM
Re: Noise question
you can get way better results with a vinylium dubplatecutter. speaking to cut acetate plates.
normally totally silent cuts.
1. first you need a good stylus.
2. the depht of the cut should be like 50-75 um. take the plate cut on the outside and check under a microscope.start from very shallow until you get a nice chip. then its normally good.
3. do you have a heating lamp on side. like 30cm away.40-60W. not necessary. but it helps.
4. make sure the chip goes to the center and wind up there.
5. make sure the stylus is well aligned.
maybe not that easy in the beginning. but i think its quite simple after a time. i used a lot for cutting in public places. not much time to set up and mostly out of the box. a quick groove with alignment. that was it. and it was always super silent, as long as the stylus is not broken.
use the 4um adamant. more robust
vestax turntable is bullshit. so far i can say the technics is still the best. maybe the others have better values for the torque. but in reality they never got that specs. regulation of the technics is way better, as far as i know.
its a long time. but we did quite some tests with all kind of technic clones. none of them was good enough.
too bad i dont have a overhead mechanics anymore. only head and amp. so i can not make any videos, tests....
f.
normally totally silent cuts.
1. first you need a good stylus.
2. the depht of the cut should be like 50-75 um. take the plate cut on the outside and check under a microscope.start from very shallow until you get a nice chip. then its normally good.
3. do you have a heating lamp on side. like 30cm away.40-60W. not necessary. but it helps.
4. make sure the chip goes to the center and wind up there.
5. make sure the stylus is well aligned.
maybe not that easy in the beginning. but i think its quite simple after a time. i used a lot for cutting in public places. not much time to set up and mostly out of the box. a quick groove with alignment. that was it. and it was always super silent, as long as the stylus is not broken.
use the 4um adamant. more robust
vestax turntable is bullshit. so far i can say the technics is still the best. maybe the others have better values for the torque. but in reality they never got that specs. regulation of the technics is way better, as far as i know.
its a long time. but we did quite some tests with all kind of technic clones. none of them was good enough.
too bad i dont have a overhead mechanics anymore. only head and amp. so i can not make any videos, tests....
f.
Re: Noise question
carter wrote:btw, i read the whole thread on platter runout under "dial indicator platter lathe turntable" and maybe that's the situation.
in my particular setup, I have to add quite a bit of support under the cutting surface to make the stylus hit the surface, and that probably increases the error in the platter runout, because i'm not using some precision machined plate. I wonder if a precision machined plate would help.
Good patience, bro. Keep at it, and it will improve. Would you detail the method of adding "...support under the cutting surface...," please? I can see how you might need to lower the yoke, to make the distance correct for the depth of cut to be as intended. But I wasn't aware of pushing up from beneath the platter? Sorry to be so daft, but I need this to come up with my answer...*L*
Pax vobis,
Father Jose
Re: Noise question
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YCd5fLxnnI&feature=youtu.be
as opposed to amateurs , I use the professional equipment to research the acoustic noise , listen canned music to the serf to the compression , you will hear the working engine TECHNICS and the margin on the ram part and pans of the gramophone , and the work of the drive VINILIUM , I am not based on suspicions , circumstantial evidence , but on proofs which assure me gauges , the decision assorts you
język polski: w przeciwieństwie do amatorów , ja używam profesjonalnego sprzętu do badań hałasu akustycznego , posłuchaj nagrania poddanego kompresji , usłyszysz pracujący silnik TECHNICS oraz luz na wale i panewkach gramofonu , oraz pracę przekładni VINILIUM , ja nie opieram się na podejrzeniach , poszlakach , ale na dowodach które zapewniają mi przyrządy pomiarowe , decyzja należy do ciebie
pozdrawiam Joanna
as opposed to amateurs , I use the professional equipment to research the acoustic noise , listen canned music to the serf to the compression , you will hear the working engine TECHNICS and the margin on the ram part and pans of the gramophone , and the work of the drive VINILIUM , I am not based on suspicions , circumstantial evidence , but on proofs which assure me gauges , the decision assorts you
język polski: w przeciwieństwie do amatorów , ja używam profesjonalnego sprzętu do badań hałasu akustycznego , posłuchaj nagrania poddanego kompresji , usłyszysz pracujący silnik TECHNICS oraz luz na wale i panewkach gramofonu , oraz pracę przekładni VINILIUM , ja nie opieram się na podejrzeniach , poszlakach , ale na dowodach które zapewniają mi przyrządy pomiarowe , decyzja należy do ciebie
pozdrawiam Joanna
Re: Noise question
Dub Bull & Flo,
Thanks for your responses.
Dub, to your question. With the Vinylium overhead, the stylus is nowhere near the platter, so I have to add thickness to get the acetate surface up to the height of the stylus (even with the stylus screw loosened all the way to its further extent). Seems strange that it wasn't constructed so that I could get closer to the actual face of the technics platter. So in the process of adding layers (rubber mat, blank sheets of makrolon, you can imagine the error increasing). To be clear, I'm not raise the platter of the Technics at all, just adding thickness of top of it to raise the blank acetate's cutting surface.
Keep in mind that for more than a year, I was getting outstanding cuts from this machine. I've written elsewhere, or earlier in this thread, that I wanted to use one of Shank's diamonds to cut plastic, so I had a friend machine for me a replacement part that would solve the whole 0 degree cut situation. I haven't had good results since switching from the custom part back to the original part. That led me to ask if the pivot pins could be a point where noise is generated and I simply misadjusted these when putting the original part back in.... I haven't seen anyone comment on this...
Flo, I would love to hear from you about the above - how do you know when the two pins on either side of the piece where the head mounts... how do you know when they are properly adjusted and is there any room for error on the tightness? I thought that the noise was because these pins were either too tight, or too loose, or who knows what.
From VMSPoland though, it seems clear that the noise comes from the vertical movement of the head during the cutting process and that I need to get a precise lathe surface with no wobbling, or undulation, or whatever you call it.
Thanks for your responses.
Dub, to your question. With the Vinylium overhead, the stylus is nowhere near the platter, so I have to add thickness to get the acetate surface up to the height of the stylus (even with the stylus screw loosened all the way to its further extent). Seems strange that it wasn't constructed so that I could get closer to the actual face of the technics platter. So in the process of adding layers (rubber mat, blank sheets of makrolon, you can imagine the error increasing). To be clear, I'm not raise the platter of the Technics at all, just adding thickness of top of it to raise the blank acetate's cutting surface.
Keep in mind that for more than a year, I was getting outstanding cuts from this machine. I've written elsewhere, or earlier in this thread, that I wanted to use one of Shank's diamonds to cut plastic, so I had a friend machine for me a replacement part that would solve the whole 0 degree cut situation. I haven't had good results since switching from the custom part back to the original part. That led me to ask if the pivot pins could be a point where noise is generated and I simply misadjusted these when putting the original part back in.... I haven't seen anyone comment on this...
Flo, I would love to hear from you about the above - how do you know when the two pins on either side of the piece where the head mounts... how do you know when they are properly adjusted and is there any room for error on the tightness? I thought that the noise was because these pins were either too tight, or too loose, or who knows what.
From VMSPoland though, it seems clear that the noise comes from the vertical movement of the head during the cutting process and that I need to get a precise lathe surface with no wobbling, or undulation, or whatever you call it.
Re: Noise question
hmm.
please make some pictures.
if all is ok with the overhead there is plenty of adjustment range to lower the head.
no need to add something under the plate. as long as you use the original technics rubber mat.
absolutely easy. you adjust the depht of the cut with the weight. spring.
on the baseplate there where some round rubber feets. approx 2-3mm thick. transparent.
then you adjusted the center puck. loosening the knurled screw a little and with a screwdriver adjust the height .
so it is mechanically stable. then fix the knurled screw.
turn head totally up. spring is fully pulled. then lower head and loose spring. thats it.
i guess you have done something wrong when putting back the mechanics.
also would love to see what you put instead of the original head block.
so pictures will tell us more.
please make some pictures.
if all is ok with the overhead there is plenty of adjustment range to lower the head.
no need to add something under the plate. as long as you use the original technics rubber mat.
absolutely easy. you adjust the depht of the cut with the weight. spring.
on the baseplate there where some round rubber feets. approx 2-3mm thick. transparent.
then you adjusted the center puck. loosening the knurled screw a little and with a screwdriver adjust the height .
so it is mechanically stable. then fix the knurled screw.
turn head totally up. spring is fully pulled. then lower head and loose spring. thats it.
i guess you have done something wrong when putting back the mechanics.
also would love to see what you put instead of the original head block.
so pictures will tell us more.
Re: Noise question
thanks flo - will post pictures momentarily.
--carter
--carter
Re: Noise question
Going to post pictures of mechanical setup in a minute. Here is a recording of a plate I cut about 2 years ago when everything was working as it should. (Granted, I live in a polluted urban environment and it's impossible to keep the plates clean.) When freshly cut, I remember both sides playing essentially without noise, and certainly none of the periodic noise I have now.
http://archive.org/details/VinyliumCutsCirca2011
http://archive.org/details/VinyliumCutsCirca2011
Re: Noise question
These photographs should illustrate the distance between the stylus and the cutting surface when the Technics rubber mat is placed on the turntable and an acetate on the mat. The spring is loosened to its fullest extent, this is the lowest the head can go. The distance without precise measurement, is close to the thickness of the mat itself.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94964778@N06/sets/72157633239360087/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94964778@N06/sets/72157633239360087/
Re: Noise question
One more thing, here are photos of the stylus used to make the noisy cuts posted earlier. The tracks I just posted were cut with a different stylus, long since broken.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94964778@N06/sets/72157633244245292/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94964778@N06/sets/72157633244245292/
Re: Noise question
see also whether is the margin on the motor shaft , seize for the motor shaft , has to be the zero of the margin , in other event use new precise the pan the river-bed TECHNICS ,
very nice foto , thanks
very nice foto , thanks