stamper playback system

[opcode66]

Yes, for sure a regular playback stylus has too small of a tip radius. Even if you could notch it (which I've come to find out is not possible) it would be very hard to get it to ride a groove.

Taking two tips and bonding them together would work though! Which appears to be how they used to make them.

One of my neighbors works for Shure. I asked him if he thought they would be interested in creating a stamper playback tip. I explained what it would be used for and showed him a stamper plate. The cart shouldn't really matter. It's all in the tip. He said it was highly unlikely. They are aware of the new interest in vinyl. They are pleased by their ongoing and increasing cart sales. But, they have no interest in R&D on new items for vinyl playback. I asked if he would maybe at least mention the idea at their next "town hall meeting". He said maybe.

So, I think I'm going to see if my diamond folks can make one. I'll just have them replace the stone on a sure tip and I'll pop it in a shure cart and see if I can play a stamper.

Either way, I can say that these would wear out a lot faster than normal playback tips. Whoever does start making these would likely sell more than expected based on that fact alone. The metal would not be very gentle on the tips...

So, if I were to start making these, what sort of interest are we talking about here. I'm really asking plant owners only.... Be good for me to gauge interest in terms of numbers.

[JayDC]

there are a few 6800EEE's on ebay, if you got mothers to play...

[opcode66]

The 6800EEE is for playing Metal Mothers (positives). I think people mostly want to play stamper plates (negatives).

You need a Bi-Pointed Stylus or BPS style stylus to play a negative stamper plate. Specifically 681/BPS-M. I don't see any of those.

[JayDC]

yes, i know.. but there are no 6800BPS-M or R's around.. but there are 6800EEE's... so maybe make a mother of the stamper you wish to play, or start doing 3 step metal again when the order first comes in..

[opcode66]

Most pressing these days don't warrant making a metal mother. For 1k or less one step plating and of a single stamper is all that is required. Why would anyone want to go through the expense of making a mother for no reason. It would be cheaper to do a test pressing and check the pressed disc normally.

I realize there are no BPS. I am suggesting that I might have some fabricated if there is enough interest. Same as the diamond cutting styli I now supply.

[montalbano]

Yes, we have the Stanton turntable and the cartridge etc.
Inherited from Polygram Italy..
We are not selling it, sometimes it is useful.
But if you want to know tech specs, I might investigate... =)

[opcode66]

Well, I've already figured out how they made the tips.... I'm wondering what is different with respect to the tonearm and turntable though???

Some pictures would be fantastic.

[Angus McCarthy]

Straightforward: the platter would have to spin anti-clockwise and the arm would have to be mounted likewise - and would have to be angled in the opposite direction as well.

[opcode66]

Yep, ok, that adds up. Do you think a straight arm would work?

A turntable with reverse function should be ok. I don't see a reason why the tonearm on the stardard side with platter running reverse would work. Not ideal. But, it would work.

[Angus McCarthy]

If you manage to mount the cartridge backwards, yeah, it could work.

[Aussie0zborn]

Garrard made a turntable for this purpose and yes it spins backwards. I saw these at EMI New Zealand and might have some pics somewhere. Their set up was such that when the positive was played the turntable would automatically stop when it hit something that shouldn't be in the grooove (or on the ridge, in this case) so it could be checked and repaired if necessary.

[EmAtChapterV]

You could also do what I do to play 16" records on a regular turntable:

1: Make note of your tracking force
2: Set the tonearm to float, then lock it to the tonearm rest and adjust the tracking weight to the negative of what it normally is (it pushes upwards instead of down).
3: Remove the headshell and reattach it upside-down, stylus pointed up.
4: Get an empty roll of 1 3/8" to 1 1/2" masking tape or duct tape and center it on the turntable.
5: Center the record on top of the empty roll. This takes a lot of trial and error and patience.
6: Start the turntable, unlock the tonearm, and holding it downwards away from the underside of the record, slowly raise it onto the record surface.
7: Congratulations, backwards music without damaging your needle or the record. Or the case of a stamper, forwards music.

I'm trying to get a demonstration picture uploaded but Imgur isn't playing nice today.

[Aussie0zborn]

There is a video of this technique on Youtube somewhere.

[Angus McCarthy]

Wow, it's so crazy, of course it works!

[opcode66]

You would still need the right tip to ride the top of the hill which is the negative of a groove. So, this would work other than having the right tip. Bi-Pointed Stylus.

[JayDC]

why the sudden interest in listening to stampers?

[opcode66]

It's actually not that sudden. The original post on this thread goes back to 2011. Since there used to be a playback system commercially produced, that also indicates interest dating back to the 70's Nd 80's. People have wanted this for decades. People had these in times gone by.

Why? Well, it would be easy for a plant to check for defaults in a stamper and potentially even fix them using such a setup. You could check the stamper without having to do a test pressing. PerhAps people who press records could chime in?

[JayDC]

if such an indispensable tool existed, how did it ever get lost like this, and whats more why are the manufacturers of these tools refusing to produce them?.. it can't be a numbers thing, i can't see a ton of these being sold in the 80's either...

[Aussie0zborn]

Well Jay, up until 1991 when vinyl was killed off in favour of the CD such a tool indeed existed and if you scroll back through this thread you'll see a Stanton spec sheet for this type of stylus and even a post from Montalbano who actually has such a device so y ucan put yoru doubts away. You must remember that at that time the big companies got out of vinyl pressing and the demand for supplies dropped off. Not many of the specialsied suppliers stuck around and as usual big companies bail out first. As I mentioned previously, when Mr Stanton retired and having no heirs he sold Stanton Magenetics to an importer of Chinerse junk DJ equipment. This is hardly the kind of company that would carry on a strong technical transition or even have the know-how that once existed in that company.

[opcode66]

Thanks Mossboss for the excellent reply. Yes, it is usually good to read an entire thread. A lot of those questions one might ask are sometimes already answered.

The same question could be asked about recording lathes as well. Why are there no longer any professional lathes being produced? Well, CD's killed the industry. And, though it is coming back, we're not going to have the investment we did in the past for R&D and production. So, one has three choices: restore and work with old gear, clone and fabricate new versions of older designs, or sit on your butt and do nothing useful. I choose the first two personally.