Current production systems and turntable

[jesusfwrl]

I have been looking at the two current-production systems for cutting records. They both rely on a Technics SL1200 as the turntable. I do not currently have an SL1200. If I go with one of these systems, should I just get an SL1200 as well? Or is there a better solution?

I do not need an SL1200 for any other use. I already have four decent belt-drive turntables to listen to music on and two belt-drive ones with no tonearms. How easy would it be to just get a high-torque motor and platter assembly to work with one of these systems, without an SL1200?

[Aussie0zborn]

welcome ot the forum. If you dont want to go with the Technics SL1200 you can get a Technics SP10 with tonearm for US $13,000 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Technics-SL-1000MK3-or-SP10-MK3-with-EPA-100MK2-arm-and-SH-10B5-base-/300806546062?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item460977a28e

I would probably go with the SL1200 to start with.

[jesusfwrl]

welcome ot the forum. If you dont want to go with the Technics SL1200 you can get a Technics SP10 with tonearm for US $13,000 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Technics-SL-1000MK3-or-SP10-MK3-with-EPA-100MK2-arm-and-SH-10B5-base-/300806546062?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item460977a28e

I would probably go with the SL1200 to start with.

I was asking more from a budget perspective........ As in, could I make do with just a motor/platter with no tonearm, or a cheap complete turntable with high enough torque, or is the SL1200 impossible to beat?

[jesusfwrl]

For instance, how about a current production direct-drive turntable, such as the Stanton T62 or the Audio Technica AT-LP120, which looks very much like an SL1200 clone anyway? Would they be any good at all, or a waste of time?

If models such as the ones I mention would not be compatible with the Vinilium or the Vinylrecorder, would the problem be the dimensions of the turntable, or the torque of the motor? Or something else?

[Angus McCarthy]

There's nothing stopping you from fabricating a platter and drive specifically for use with a dub-cutter. Most people use stock turntables because it's the easiest solution.

[Steve E.]

There have been threads on the issue of the torque of consumer record players. Most of them do NOT have enough torque for reliable cuts. Do a search on "torque" here and see what comes up.

https://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2925

I know Aussie Cutter uses a Stanton STR8-150. Some feel that NONE of these are reliable enough in terms of the startup speed and maintaining speed. That's the advantage of something like that Technics SP10. (but again, crazy pricey).

I don't have first hand knowledge of any of these systems. I have yet to hear any definitive reports on how much or little "wow" (pitch variation) you will get with a technics 1200. I don't know how much the torque can be improved by modifying one.

Using an old rim-drive turntable will give you more stability, and a lot of torque. That's the advantage of the Prestos, or perhaps a Lenco L75 (again, no first-hand experience with Lenco). The problem with THOSE is that the motor noise will pass through the capstan and the rubber to the TT. It is nearly impossible to eliminate all of that noise.

I'll betcha that there would be some real money in it for a TT company to put out a good high-torque direct-drive TT right about now.

[Steve E.]

In fact....I just put a call in to Panasonic (Technics) Research & Development on this matter.

[mratx]

I haven't used a 1200 to cut, but I have a Numark TTX that I've used with a Rek-O-Kut overhead. It supposedly has greater torque than the 1200, but it has issues driving my B-5 overhead (the 16" model), it can't maintain speed. It's able to work with the smaller M12 overhead, which is substantially lighter.

I would think one would work as a substitute for any cutting unit that will work with a 1200, but it's no substitute for an old rim drive turntable. I have a couple of Rek-O-Kut turntables, (a 12 and a 16, can't remember the numbers off the top of my head), neither of those has any issue driving either overhead.

Mark

[Steve E.]

I retract my claim about Lenco's. Here's a thread by people who know what they are talking about:

https://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4155

[jesusfwrl]

Thanks a lot for the information and links!

Apart from the torque, are the physical dimensions of a turntable much of an obstacle for the two current production systems? The vinylrecorder comes with a base on which the turntable sits, which seems more "flexible", but I have no idea how the overhead gets lowered on to the blank, so I don't know if platter height is an issue, or if it can work with a wide range of heights.

The vinylium sits on the turntable shaft on one end, and on the enclosure on the other end. I guess this setup is a lot more dependent on the SL1200 dimensions. It also seems too small to work with 14" laquers. Although, I'm also not sure what results one would get if using it for masters.

Most likely I will go with an SL1200 for whichever system I end up deciding on, but I'm still exploring my options.

[studiorp]

I am using an Omnitronic with 3.5 kg/cm, 3 time more than 1200. Very good, very silent and precise about speed .
Same system as Technics dd-quartz high torque motor.
There are many brands very similar or better than 1200, for example Reloop 6000, Stanton 150, Omnitronic 5250 ( Reloop 6000, it's the same ), Synq, etc.
Technics is Techincs, ok, but for me there are many options better, then you must decide, but this is my opinion...
The only problem of these wonderful turntables, is the platter, because isn't very precise, there is a wobbler problem, so I advice to replace this with a new piece, built with your specs in a workshop.

[jesusfwrl]

I am using an Omnitronic with 3.5 kg/cm, 3 time more than 1200. Very good, very silent and precise about speed .

What overhead are you using? Have you had a custom platter made?

[studiorp]

I am using an overhead Poltz Freres of 1940-50, but yes my lathe ( unfinished still... ) has been persolized by me and my friend that have helped me in these last two years of project.
I will post the photos soon. The platter is original but too this modified. The material of platter is cast iron and it weight 2.4 kg; originally it weight 3.4 kg, so I have done low 1 kg less because is always a platter heavy that will go inserted on dd-drive motor, though this motor have a high torque.
In the future I will perhaps will do a new platter in alu less heavy.

[flozki]

again my experience. but i am happy to learn something more.

all the technics clones are crap.
they have better torque values on the paper. but the regulation is totally wack.
so i tested many clones. none of them came close to a SP1200.
i dont knwo how they measured out this torque.

if you want it better. technics sp10.

or go for a homemade solution with brass table >15 KG and use a belt and fast turning motor on side.
the mass of the table will be your regulation. works very good. all scully's work with that system.
also the turntable for my diskomat.


lenco L75 is totally useless. no torque at all.horrible bearing. this is a player not more.

and the heavier the turntable the better. if the system turns once.so better have 10 kgs of turntable or even 30.
but many systems can not handle the additional weight. bearings and current protection. especially for starting up.

i wrote in a few other threads how to do it with conventional dc servo motors. thats the cheapest and best solution if you find 2nd hand dc servo motor.

[jesusfwrl]

Thanks for all the information!!

It seems like the "easiest" solution is an SL1200 or similar. The custom made turntable sounds appealing, but I guess it is something for later on, when I know exactly what I want better than on an SL.

Also, judging from a recent thread on here, it seems like the "two current production systems" have effectively become "THE current production system", as one seems to have become extremely hard to contact or get any support/information from. So, essentially, I am limited to only one option if I want a current production system.

I honestly don't think I can afford a professional mastering lathe (would be nice) and a lo-fi mono system is not what I'm looking for. I would like to build a system myself, but I would also like to be able to cut records soon, that sound good.

Thanks again guys!

[13yo]

having not checked closely, I'd guess the SP smokes the SL in all specs important to disc cutting, flame on!

_m