Vinyl May Be Final Nail in CD's Coffin (wired mag)

[JayDC]

Neeto article about the big vinyl comeback!

"As counterintuitive as it may seem in this age of iPods and digital downloads, vinyl -- the favorite physical format of indie music collectors and audiophiles -- is poised to re-enter the mainstream, or at least become a major tributary."

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/commentary/listeningpost/2007/10/listeningpost_1029

[Mike Frost]

Interesting stuff! Thnx.

[Dub Studio]

Yeh good stuff. Its interesting the same thing happens here in the UK with the BPI not really giving a very accurate portayal of sales. Even so, the general trend in the UK is CD sales plummeting, vinyl staying the same, and downloads rocketing.

Question: If a download from iTunes costs 79p here in the UK (which is a rip off considering is only 99 cents in the US) and an ipod can hold 100,000 tunes. What's worth more, an ipod full of tunes, or £79,000 of vinyl records?

[cuttercollector]

Always the physical tangibal object. I read a good post on the Ampex mailing list (yes, reel to reel) back when another "Vinyl is back" story came out.
To most people especially those retailing used music, a cdr full of files of songs, or even a cdr full of dubs from vinyl is not going to be worth much.
I have had this discussion with many people. The only way I can see it is if there are bands lost in the indie music scene noise that only issue downloads, then the last remaining copy of a song that gains significance somehow on some drive somewhere will become valuable - until it is then replicated 9000000 times again. But a published, sold hard copy will always be worth more. Especially vinyl because of the ongoing legacy and how universal it is. It remains the original way of recording sound and has not died somehow despite attempts to kill it.

[so still dog]

I concur with this article, my local newbury comics has more vinyl each time i go there, to the point where its all crammed in and hard to browse now

[Dr. Groove]

Neeto article about the big vinyl comeback!

"As counterintuitive as it may seem in this age of iPods and digital downloads, vinyl -- the favorite physical format of indie music collectors and audiophiles -- is poised to re-enter the mainstream, or at least become a major tributary."

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/commentary/listeningpost/2007/10/listeningpost_1029

I don't care for downloading much. A few times I've downloaded and it was cassette music. They did a very nice job of spiffing it up but it's still cassette and I'll take CD over cassette any day. If it's online for download, I expect it to be digital not spiffed up cassette. Another problem is that not all the songs I look for are available online. I'm not a mainstream music fan. I listen to stuff that's not always easy to find and with downloads like Limewire and all that, it's just crapshoot. Finally, I've downloaded crap online and received useless garbled crap because the guy who uploaded didn't do it right and then didn't even bother to check to make it was right. In one case, I downloaded some B.B. King and it was gangsta rap. Some stupid clown thought it was funny to upload that idiotic garbage and label as B.B. King. I did not find it funny as it was a waste of my time and money, neither of which I can afford to waste on this kind of stupidity.

I like CDs better. At least it's something tangible with art and liner notes or lyric sheet even if you do need a magnifying glass to read it. There's a bit more of a connection there. The problem with CD is the price. When CDs sales starting falling due to people preferring to download, I expected CD prices to fall and I could make a killing. They didn't fall one iota--as expensive as ever. That kind of ticked me off. Now with the price of gas soaring, CD prices will likely go up because it costs more to deliver them to stores now while downloading won't be affected by gas prices at all. That may very well be the nail in the coffin for CDs and that will be a shame because it definitely is my chosen digital medium.

The other problem with CDs disappearing is the indie bands trying to get a product out there. With digital recording, you could do it yourself from start to finish and make yourself a very nice product to sell at shows. Who wants to do a show and have to tell people to go to this website and download the songs?? Selling vinyl is nice but how many bands have a lathe sitting around and a record pressing machine and professionally designed albums?

The nice thing about the digital recording revolution is that it tore the guts out of the big labels and rightly so. Going back to vinyl kind of puts them back in the driver's seat and I hate the recording industry--bunch of crooks. And I hate the RIAA--bigger bunch of crooks.

[so still dog]

The thing i don't like about cds is that industrial artists (coil, nihilist spasm band) will press 1000 copies, never looking back, with those cds being sold for terrible sums of money on ebay

[Dub Studio]

Selling vinyl is nice but how many bands have a lathe sitting around and a record pressing machine and professionally designed albums?

How many bands have a decent recording studio? That doesn't stop them making music and how do you think they design CD covers? The point of the article isn't that vinyl is killing off CD, its that downloads are killing off CDs, but not vinyl.

[Dr. Groove]

How many bands have a decent recording studio? That doesn't stop them making music

Recording is the easy part. I've recorded bands in basements, living rooms, warehouses, even backyards and big boomy churches. All you need are the mikes and a board hooked up to a digital recording unit. My board doesn't even have phantom power and I still use condensers onstage and record them.

and how do you think they design CD covers?

Designing CD covers is easy. Printing them out is easy. I have software for all that stuff. I can make a beautiful CD from scratch and have done it many times.

What I don't have is a lathe and don't have any way to press vinyl and I have no means of making album jackets.

The point of the article isn't that vinyl is killing off CD, its that downloads are killing off CDs, but not vinyl.

I'm aware of that but it makes no difference. You can't sell downloads at shows. I'd rather sell CDs than vinyl because I can make CDs by myself.

[Dub Studio]

How many bands have a decent recording studio? That doesn't stop them making music

Recording is the easy part. I've recorded bands in basements, living rooms, warehouses, even backyards and big boomy churches. All you need are the mikes and a board hooked up to a digital recording unit. My board doesn't even have phantom power and I still use condensers onstage and record them.

and how do you think they design CD covers?

Designing CD covers is easy. Printing them out is easy. I have software for all that stuff. I can make a beautiful CD from scratch and have done it many times.

What I don't have is a lathe and don't have any way to press vinyl and I have no means of making album jackets.

The point of the article isn't that vinyl is killing off CD, its that downloads are killing off CDs, but not vinyl.

I'm aware of that but it makes no difference. You can't sell downloads at shows. I'd rather sell CDs than vinyl because I can make CDs by myself.

You talk about vinyl as if its not an option for some bands because they don't have their own lathe, this is simply not true. Even for a small band its perfectly feasible to do a small run of vinyl to sell at gigs.

[Dr. Groove]

[quote="Dub Studio]You talk about vinyl as if its not an option for some bands because they don't have their own lathe, this is simply not true. [/quote]

I don't see how you can do it if you don't have your own. Otherwise you have to pay someone else. And I'm not paying anyone else when I can do it myself. Even if I get a good deal, it's a waste of money to have the ability to make CDs and not use it.

Even for a small band its perfectly feasible to do a small run of vinyl to sell at gigs.

For me, that would only be if I didn't have any other means. Otherwise, I lose money just by not resorting to those means. I can sell CDs, I've done it. I don't know how vinyl would sell. It makes me leery because I have no friends with turntables. They're not audiophiles but then most people aren't.

[Dr. Groove]

Btw, there was an article in the news about Lime Wire becoming a watering hole for ID thieves. Apparently, the peer-to-peer software opens up all your files and computer savvy crooks can grab pretty much whatever they want. Apparently, Stephen Breyer the Supreme Court judge had his personal information displayed on Lime Wire when someone in a legal firm that had his personal info went on Lime Wire to swap music files. Six months later, that info was still available.

Somebody had told me about this problem before and I didn't know whether to believe him or not and so I used a laptop with nothing on it other than the music files I wanted to swap when I went on Lime Wire so I'm safe.

Just one more reason not to like downloading. Be forewarned.

[Dub Studio]

For me, that would only be if I didn't have any other means. Otherwise, I lose money just by not resorting to those means.

This is not necessarily true. Sure vinyl is more expensive, but as a premium product it commands a higher price. How do you know not enough people would buy vinyl from you? This article seems to be saying the opposite.

[Dr. Groove]

How do you know not enough people would buy vinyl from you? This article seems to be saying the opposite.

I said I don't know and I can't take the chance by switching to vinyl since I'd be losing money in two ways if it doesn't sell and not using the means I already have available for free.

If the bottom drops out of the CD market, that pretty much wraps it up for me. I don't have the means or connections to switch over to vinyl and recoup anything on my CD-manufacturing investment. That's pretty much a crash & burn. Serious crash & burn.

My only hope is that the audience I'm tapping into likes less commerically-oriented music and aren't interested in downloading since I've found it a crapshoot trying to get the kind of stuff I like. With the added problems of ID theft, that might actually put a nail in the coffin of downloading.

In America, the easier it is, the more you have to be suspicious about it. Downloading is too easy. There has to be something wrong with it. A great idea but one that also makes it easier for crooks. Kind of like buying a house on a subprime loan or buying a big, fancy SUV while gas is cheap. Sooner or later, the carriage turns into a pumpkin and you're forced to go back to what is the most reliable over what is the easiest. I think CDs are FAR more reliable than downloading. Not to mention far more rewarding.

In fact, I bought Herb Alpert's "Whipped Cream & Other Delights" on CD the other day and it actually has a poster in it and a very nice booklet of photos and liner notes. I also bought a 3-CD set called "OHM" which is about the pioneers of electronic music and contains rare pieces from as early as the 40s. Extremely nice booklet. Same with "Pioneers of Rock and Roll". With CD, a lot of things are still possible. you sure won't get that stuff from downloading.

[Dub Studio]

If I had enough money to invest in a CD plant, there is simply no way I would spend it on that. All investment requires some pretty robust figures to back it up, and with CDs at the moment there simply aren't any.

Sure illegal downloads will eventually be clamped down on. Yes it IS too good to be true, but legal downloading has well and truly established itself, and there is no turning back on that IMO.

When it comes to physical formats the only viable ones in my mind are high definition formats, vinyl and USB sticks. Top tip: USB sticks were included in the UK charts for the first time this spring, and with "Phase Change Memory" in the pipeline they are set to get better and better at storing and restoring info. This is probably the cheapest of all the physical formats to set up I imagine.

Having said that, this is a forum about vinyl, so I have to say by far the best physical format is and will always be: beautiful VINYL