How is possible to record sounds?

[Phon]

I still cannot understand how is possible that a sound can be stored thanks to grooves. Any expert here? Basically a sapphire cutting needle carves grooves into the surface of a disk, wax cylinder, etc, transferring the signal from a sound. So, if I understand it, a groove will sound like a violin only because has a particular zig zag, and a another groove will sound like a trumpet because has a slightly different zig zag? But what about violin and trumpet together? How is that possible? And, can you carve the same grooves manually on the master, without any sound? Who knows, maybe by carving a particular zig zag, you can discover and achieve a wonderful sound never heard before?

[recordboy]

Yes to ALL yr inquiries.

Tis the same manner in which our ears move.
like a speaker or microphone...
just a different mechanical process.

why & how this is the way sound works [in a waveform] can only be speculated yet is the manner in which WE perceive sound.

other animals &/or "beings" perceive it in different ways.

Its mysterious yet easily define.

The combinations are infinite...

It has been theorized that if you play a certain combination ov notes on a violin, you would open a dimensional portal.

Sound can move mass... create nausea & a slew ov other applications...

What you say in the latter part is exactly how a synthesizer works...

Pictures/colour turned into sound is nothing new either...

Have fun

hope that helps

[recordboy]

P.s.

Everything we sense is a vibration, reflection then perception...

Even humans perceive thing differently.
Both sight and sound...

Your questions might be better answered by Neurology...

cheers

[jjgolden]

For more on the sound resonance, vibrations and geometric patterns… If you haven't seen it yet, this video may blow your mind.. or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtiSCBXbHAg

JJG

[Phon]

Here I attached vinyl grooves under microscope, maybe you have already seen them. They look so simple, just a bunch of pits and bumps, without any complex geometry, and yet, it's thanks to these simple grooves that you get Mozart, Bach and Beatles recorded. If you replicate exactly the same shape with 3D printing and a laser beam, you would get the same music. In that Cymatic experiment youtube clip, you see geometric figures even more complex than these vinyl grooves, and consider that is just one note and one type of sound, but if you try the same with an orchestra what happen to the sand? To me is still a miracle, I still cannot find a scientific explanation for sound recording.

[jjgolden]

It's really is pretty amazing
The science is all there, it just takes continued study to have it sink in.

I would imaging the sand would be all scrambled with actual music.
In the same way a single sine wav differs from a complex wave form on an oscilloscope.

I love it!
JJG

[mischmerz]

You know .. it's not really a miracle but physics. Audio / Sound is noting but a series of air pressure differences and displacements that makes a membrane (e.g in a microphone) vibrate. This vibration can be converted into electrical impulses. The electrical impulses can be amplified and recorded. And played back of course. Very early mechanical units recorded the impulses by pushing a stylus into wax .. tracing a stylus over the imprint would regenerate the recorded impulse and make it audible. So - what you see as grooves and pits on a record is pretty much a recording of a series of air pressure differences that a speaker will recreate once a pickup 'reads' the impulse and an amplifier has amplified it enough.

[Phon]

I know it's physics. Let's take something simple, without electricity involved, like the early Edison phonographs. What I would like to see is what determines the groove shapes. For example, the shape of a groove made playing a piano, the groove shape playing a guitar, a groove playing a single note, a groove playing more notes, etc. Basically I would love to see a decoding of all these shapes. In theory, if there are insects capable of carving similar grooves, it would amazing to 3D print them, play their composition, and possibly hear unknown instruments .

[mischmerz]

I know it's physics. Let's take something simple, without electricity involved, like the early Edison phonographs. What I would like to see is what determines the groove shapes.

I tried to explain that. It all boils down to differences in air pressure. The membrane in a microphone (or Edison receiver) reacts to the displacements of air pressure that is transporting the audio. The curve in the recording material records the movement of the membrane - thus records the differences in pressure. It's pretty much a fast recording barometer

mm.

[recordboy]

What determines the groove shape is the sound from which is projected, its tone/volume etc....

--. .-. --- --- ...- . ... / .- .-. . / . -. -.-. --- -.. . -.. / . ...- . .-. -.-- .-- .... . .-. . # # #

[Phon]

One thing that is helping me to understand is this article,
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/sound/Lesson-3/Interference-and-Beats
When it talks about "Musical Beats and Intervals", you can see that when two different notes (red and blue waves) are played together, the result is a wave (the green wave), which is different from the two single waves, but is still a single wave, not the sum of the two. This might explain why the groove is always a single groove, no matter how many instruments are played at once?

[mischmerz]

One thing that is helping me to understand is this article,
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/sound/Lesson-3/Interference-and-Beats
When it talks about "Musical Beats and Intervals", you can see that when two different notes (red and blue waves) are played together, the result is a wave (the green wave), which is different from the two single waves, but is still a single wave, not the sum of the two. This might explain why the groove is always a single groove, no matter how many instruments are played at once?

You are still thinking in the wrong direction. There's just one groove because there's just one air pressure to record - two if it's stereo. It simply doesn't matter how many instruments made the air pressure change. Microphones don't care about who or what makes noise. They just measure the changes in air pressure resulting from it.

m.

[Phon]

One thing that is helping me to understand is this article,
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/sound/Lesson-3/Interference-and-Beats
When it talks about "Musical Beats and Intervals", you can see that when two different notes (red and blue waves) are played together, the result is a wave (the green wave), which is different from the two single waves, but is still a single wave, not the sum of the two. This might explain why the groove is always a single groove, no matter how many instruments are played at once?

You are still thinking in the wrong direction. There's just one groove because there's just one air pressure to record - two if it's stereo. It simply doesn't matter how many instruments made the air pressure change. Microphones don't care about who or what makes noise. They just measure the changes in air pressure resulting from it.

m.

Thanks, please don't take offense , but you are repeating the same thing over and over again. I got it, but I am interested in decoding examples of these grooves. And the example in the article above is a good one to make you understand this, otherwise the grooves would be identical, no matter what music is played on the microphone.

[recordboy]

That is like decoding every finger print ever made an to be made. why does it form in a spiral? Science can "TRY" to define it. yet that it only tell you human perceptions.

as been said. it is what it is due to the sound.
the vibrations which cause the waves in the air "pressure". I could say hello into a mic & cut it & then you say it & cut it.

the wave will differ due to voice/intensity
an accent etc. each and EVERY nuance determining the wave shape which is traveling through space (here on earth [air]) Thusly changing & causing pressure.

why is a particular sound LARGER in a wave or smaller etc. is due to the sound. studying sound might be better for your answer. yet i think it is as impossible to answer as is there a devine being who created us or what did and why etc. there is just way to much info. it might take you a life time to come close to figure out only a minute amount. not to say its not a valid question, just not easy to define. because you can make TRILLIONS ov cuts which aren't even audible to human ears. Yet i do suppose if you did discovey a "code" you might have a chance. yet still not an answer as to why do these thing work this way.

best luck

[recordboy]

P.s.

http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/recording.technology.history/precursors.html

[Phon]

there is just way to much info. it might take you a life time to come close to figure out only a minute amount. not to say its not a valid question, just not easy to define. because you can make TRILLIONS ov cuts which aren't even audible to human ears. Yet i do suppose if you did discovey a "code" you might have a chance. yet still not an answer as to why do these thing work this way.

best luck

I am not trying to decode everything , that would be impossible, but I would be just happy to see what is the difference between the same C note, played from different instruments, or seeing the difference in the groove when two notes are played at once. That would be interesting to see all these minute differences with the microscope. I can try the same thing with the software Audacity, and zoom the waves.

[recordboy]

Are you trying to determin the shape ov a note? Still I think the variants due to the striking ov the note. which piano type or other instrument "type" & recording equipment used etc. etc. would cause variants.

now electronicly produced waves/test record
might be something you would find interesting. yet even these vary.

Cheers