about lifetime of stylus (with vinyl recorder T560)

[mischmerz]

How do you guys check that weight 10g? 16g? its rather impossible with Souri's tool. I mean maybe if you are VERY delicate you can judge +/- 5g, but in reality the "Error rate" is bigger. I've tried to do it with small scale unit but placing carefuly stylus on it I destroyed the tip... So.. how>?

I use a dead stylus for all my adjustments.

m.

[JP_]

Very interesting how different all those styles of working with the T560 are.
For lowest noise and best sound quality possible I have to always cut with head lamp and stylus heating on (very carefully). But no. means not much as the difference of temp through the blank changed a lot when using the lamps.
Even that I use a normal 1200Mk2 (but in great shape it seems) for cutting I never has occur any sonical problems with wow/flutter or any of my clients mentioned something problems like this. I cut everything from jazz to folk to HipHop to electronic music. Much more important beside a good setup of the lathe is a great master.
All adjustments on the T560 I do are simply the result of intensive listening test.

I broke my styluses before they reached their lifetime...

[marcy108]

hi Marco.thank you for tell me your tip!

>Regarding wow and flutter, for me cutting with sl1200 was never a solution, is unacceptable for my standards,
>i cut electronic music mostly, i need deep and solid grooves,
i'm with you.i also need deep and solid grooves.
i'm cutting dance music,punk rock,hiphop and funk music.

>so i opted for an SP 10 and now an external motor, both working great!
if i use only external motor,it's not useful?
because it's hard to get SP 10.
i'm considering to buy external motor by souri.

>It happened to me when i changed my turntable to use the stylus just for 10h, and thanks to Steven's (myshank) suggestion, i figured out i didn't calibrated accurately the turntable. So the stylus was cutting out of the axis. I think you should check this first.
>You have to make a straight line from the center of one blank till the edge, with a ruler to place it perpendicular to the edge of the turntable (blank on the platter), the you drop down the cutter head and you check the stylus is on the line, and it stays on it for the whole disc. If it is not there you have found your problem...
>You can see this procedure in the myshank website.
yes,mr Stiven gave me kind suggestions in my case.
i already calibrated about axis.


hi sat159p1.
i'm worried about set weight too.
i'm checked my way of setting few people.
they said "this way is no problem"

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i judge weight when moment of stylus leave blank.
therefore stylus almost touch blank.

stylus down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUgBhYf7A34

set of COUNTER WEIGHT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0FM8bw4sJ4
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hi JP.

>Even that I use a normal 1200Mk2 (but in great shape it seems) for cutting I never has occur any sonical problems with wow/flutter or any of my clients mentioned something problems like this. I cut everything from jazz to folk to HipHop to electronic music. Much more important beside a good setup of the lathe is a great master.
>All adjustments on the T560 I do are simply the result of intensive listening test.
weight set 15g with 1200MK2,it came our wow & flatter.this is my experience.
you don't have this problem?

so helplessly i set 12g.wow & flatter went away.


thanks everybody post own tip and experience.
i appreciate you.thank you.

MARCY

[JP_]

hi JP.

>Even that I use a normal 1200Mk2 (but in great shape it seems) for cutting I never has occur any sonical problems with wow/flutter or any of my clients mentioned something problems like this. I cut everything from jazz to folk to HipHop to electronic music. Much more important beside a good setup of the lathe is a great master.
>All adjustments on the T560 I do are simply the result of intensive listening test.
weight set 15g with 1200MK2,it came our wow & flatter.this is my experience.
you don't have this problem?

No, not at all. And I still search for a reason to buy souris motor and platter, but I havent found it yet.
Sorry , I can not help out further. I mentioned this only because so much people grouch on the trusty 1200er in combination with the T-560. But I could not be happier with my setup and I also have some picky clients that say my cuts are easily on par with their pressed record collection.
As I said the master is much more important to me for the quality of the cut. I just cutted two records in the last hour; one with carefully remastered electro tunes from the late 80th (which came out great) and one with modern HipHop-Tracks from a home studio, completely unmastered with crazy sibiliance (which wasnt really cutable at all).

[pellegrino707]

Hi Marcy,

Actually at the moment i use the external motor + plate on a sl 1200, the sp 10 is for sale at the moment (if you are interested we can discuss this privately). I opted to go for the external motor + plate because i wanted to try 14" lacquers, a part for this, i would say the sp 10 has even more torque.

I think you can't cut at 12gr. It is really not enough, it would probably skip in not well calibrated turntable (and most of people don't even know that it needs to be calibrated). I don't care so much about the weight, i check with scope until i reach the desired depth, and in my case is always about 18 19 gr. The really important part is to set properly the counterweight, and i feel you have to much tension on the spring, so the counterweight could be too heavy. Check if all the mechanical parts move smoothly and check the weight again.
In any case to get a good running set up requires time.

For sure a good master is the first requirement for a good cut, but first you have to fix all the mechanical issue, if not you will never have a good cut...

To JP_

I think upgrading the turntable is the first desire of any VR user, this because it is clearly not thought as a cutting motor, but as a listening plate, so it has a lot of limitations.
With the external motor or the sp 10 you have almost 10dBs less rumble, and it makes the difference in terms of tracking stability, plus you have a plate much more flat than an sl1200 has, this makes the depth of the cut much more coherent during the whole cut.
I use to cut about 10 records a day, most of them for djs or anyway for loud and bass heavy music, that deserves deep cuts and stability, to be played also in noisy enveironment as clubs. For this i use pressed Maxi 12" as reference for depht and volume of my cuts, because my clients will play them comparing them with those, and sometimes i reach + 9dbs or more, so i need a very deep groove.

[JP_]

I had never said the 1200 is the ultimate solution for cutting. I just said its easily possible to cut without obvious wow/flutter even with loud cuts @ 9dB on Souris meter (even when I prefer a bit lower levels soundwise).
Less rumble might be an advantage of course and Im for sure will try a better solution for platter/motor someday.

But investing to new stuff cause the cuts comes out in bad quality is nonsense. There are extremely solid cuts possible with just the standard T560.
And a feedback head will make much more improvement than any motor f.e. in my opinion.
But ask 10 T560 users and you will get 11 different answers. So everybody has to find its own way to create a great output with this machine.
Most differences depending on the cutter itself for sure. I heard very bad cuts from well equipped and experienced people and I heard great cuts with just the most simple setup.

[tragwag]

back to the stylus weight measurement issue, what you're really measuring is the range of groove depth for the cut.
the more weight the deeper the groove. The only way to check that you're cutting reasonable grooves is with a microscope.
if you don't have a scale on your eyepiece, use a pressed record to compare to (at least you'll be in the right range)

[sat159p1]

@marcy108: going back to your YouTube videos - I think you measure counterweight wrong. I always did it with the stylus in the standby position (up, not down on the disc) and then check with Souri's tool. But I may be wrong too. Can anyone confirm?

[marcy108]

hi tragwag.

>if you don't have a scale on your eyepiece, use a pressed record to compare to (at least you'll be in the right range)
my eyepiece don't have a scale.so i tried to compare pressed record.
but one groove of pressed record is very wide,other pressed one is too shallow.(but good volume)
so i'd like to know standard width.

hi sat159p1.

>going back to your YouTube videos - I think you measure counterweight wrong.
>I always did it with the stylus in the standby position (up, not down on the disc) and then check with Souri's tool. But I may be wrong too. Can anyone confirm?
i have be confirmed this youtube by souri and few people.
they said "no problem".
but can anyone confirm just in case?


>all
now i'm in big trouble...
main unit was broken.so i'm trying to bypass main unit RIAA.
i made new thread.because the theme is not for this thread.
if you have any knowledge,please post on this thread.

http://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6206&p=39257&hilit=t560#p39257

best regard.
MARCY

[Tremdall]

To revive this topic;

can someone tell me if it's harmful for the stylus if the weight is too heavy? I've measured it now at 22 gram. Haven't tested it yet.
Before, I had it around 19-20 gram (it's a used stylus from Souri) but had trouble with wow. The lighter I made it (15 gr) the more wow. so I 'assume' when I raise the weight, the wow will vanish? Can I do this without risking damaging the stylus?

[tragwag]

I don't think a difference of 3-5 grams would be super detrimental.
What turntable are you using, does the wow happen in the inner and outer diameters of the same blank?
I would guess the wow is a bigger issue somewhere else, maybe the dashpot setting, or turntable torque issue.

[Gridlock]

I will refer this subject to the eternal question; how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

[Tremdall]

I don't think a difference of 3-5 grams would be super detrimental.
What turntable are you using, does the wow happen in the inner and outer diameters of the same blank?
I would guess the wow is a bigger issue somewhere else, maybe the dashpot setting, or turntable torque issue.

I changed the weight but to no avail.

It seems in fact having to do with the torque;

I have an SL1210 MKII

First when the table turns, the torque is normal. But every time I start cutting, the torque is constantly changing (the music on the cut sounds valse). I tried already to fine adjust speed of the turntable when the stylus is down. But even when I manage to get it reasonably stable (never fully still, but (the dots) going a bit foreward and then back to it's initial spot); when I start cutting the next plate, the speed goes wild again.

In the beginning it seems to happen more than the middle, but not fully sure.

[Tremdall]

Is it possible I simply need to recallibrate the pitch of the SL1210 MKII ?

Or is there something else I can adjust at the VR?

I already checked the allignment of the VR axis which was fine.

[tragwag]

yeah unfortunately the torque of the 1200 is just about at the threshold of running torque that you need to make a good cut.
I always had issues on the outside edge of 12" when I used a 1200, it seemed that 7" were fine because they're farther inwards.

I use the technics SP10 and the SP15, they have at least twice the running torque of the 1200.

there are torque modifications that can be made to the 1200, but that's not something I've tried.

sorry to hear about your issues!

[tragwag]

no adjustment of the playback pitch will help the torque unfortunately

[Tremdall]

there are torque modifications that can be made to the 1200, but that's not something I've tried.

Do you mean the precision motor from Souri?

[tragwag]

No not the souri precision platter/motor, I can't find it at the moment but there's a resistor you can replace in the 1200 motor circuit that allows for more torque.

[Tremdall]

Update: I lowered the setting of the groove distancer and lowered the weight of the cutter and it's much better since.
Really love the sound of the VR. Super warm & lively sound. Don't understand all the negativity about souri's machine because it's a genius build.
Like everything, you first need to understand the machine's behavior, but once you're learning it, it's absolutely magnificent.