World's Finest Cutting System?
Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn
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cuttercollector
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dietrich10
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blacknwhite
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cuttercollector
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in this time of life, 20K is a lot for someone to just toss out like that, i wonder if its going to go back up or if the "highest bidder" is gonna get a message on ol ebay. i'm having trouble finding a decent lathe and i only have 1K to spend which i was sure could find me something decent to cut with.
all the best!
- tommie 'plan 9' emmi
poly-cut lathe cuts / cymbalism recordings
- tommie 'plan 9' emmi
poly-cut lathe cuts / cymbalism recordings
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dietrich10
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yeah i think also the seller valued
sp02 15k
manley amps 15k
updated head 5k
scully/kapps etc 5k
40k
but there is no reason this would cut as well as zuma,sx74,sal74b on an everyday basis with limited maintenance.
not say you cannot cut a great record it but as flo etc stated why the heavy turntable with that lathe....
sp02 15k
manley amps 15k
updated head 5k
scully/kapps etc 5k
40k
but there is no reason this would cut as well as zuma,sx74,sal74b on an everyday basis with limited maintenance.
not say you cannot cut a great record it but as flo etc stated why the heavy turntable with that lathe....
cutting lacquers-vms70 system
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blacknwhite
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I told the seller I'm on a forum of cutting pro's & hobbyists, and wondered if he'd share what the reserve was, so I could pass it on to the forum.
His response:
-------- BEGIN QUOTE
Hi Bob. My partner, Charlie Watts, and I could not take the chance of listing the lathe with no reserve. We have far more than this invested and will not just give it away. We are extremely disappointed that the reserve price of $35,000 was not met and that no one in the audio community fully comprehends what this piece of gear is. This was David Manley's personal quest for the holy grail lathe. Several years ago, and tens of thousands later, Charlie, EveAnna and Hutch perfected it. We are mastering engineers, not auctioneers, and believed the price was eminently fair. We are certainly not desperate to sell and if left up to me, it will not be listed again.
Like King Solomon, we will most likely cut the baby in half, or part the lathe out, unless someone steps up as the real mother. There is too much work that has gone into getting all the components to sync together as a cutting system. I'm sure someone out there would love to have an SP02 drive motor and I'm sure someone else would love to own matching 300 watt monoblocks, etc. Parting it out ends the issue of commissioning, and it also ends anyone profiting off of all or our monies and efforts to assemble this unique, one-of-a-kind cutting system.
As no one likes to admit, it all comes down to money. I've heard the flap, particulary in Los Angeles, but I know very few people people in the industry who in actuality even have $35,000. If someone is interested, we can do a buy it now on ebay. If not, oh well.
Bob Lanzner/Technovoice Mastering.
----- END QUOTE
- Bob
His response:
-------- BEGIN QUOTE
Hi Bob. My partner, Charlie Watts, and I could not take the chance of listing the lathe with no reserve. We have far more than this invested and will not just give it away. We are extremely disappointed that the reserve price of $35,000 was not met and that no one in the audio community fully comprehends what this piece of gear is. This was David Manley's personal quest for the holy grail lathe. Several years ago, and tens of thousands later, Charlie, EveAnna and Hutch perfected it. We are mastering engineers, not auctioneers, and believed the price was eminently fair. We are certainly not desperate to sell and if left up to me, it will not be listed again.
Like King Solomon, we will most likely cut the baby in half, or part the lathe out, unless someone steps up as the real mother. There is too much work that has gone into getting all the components to sync together as a cutting system. I'm sure someone out there would love to have an SP02 drive motor and I'm sure someone else would love to own matching 300 watt monoblocks, etc. Parting it out ends the issue of commissioning, and it also ends anyone profiting off of all or our monies and efforts to assemble this unique, one-of-a-kind cutting system.
As no one likes to admit, it all comes down to money. I've heard the flap, particulary in Los Angeles, but I know very few people people in the industry who in actuality even have $35,000. If someone is interested, we can do a buy it now on ebay. If not, oh well.
Bob Lanzner/Technovoice Mastering.
----- END QUOTE
- Bob
35k is fairly nutty, I guess I'm surprised that it cost much to get the amplifiers working (they should have been nearly there).
Part of the problem for the whole 'famous history' sale angle is that David Manley didn't really get much success out of ViTaL Records, if it was Doug Sax's first Sheffield Lab Scully lathe, or one of Bernie Grundman's Scully lathes, I'd imagine the historical angle would work better.
Part of the problem for the whole 'famous history' sale angle is that David Manley didn't really get much success out of ViTaL Records, if it was Doug Sax's first Sheffield Lab Scully lathe, or one of Bernie Grundman's Scully lathes, I'd imagine the historical angle would work better.
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TotalSonic
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Last I checked the going rate for a stock Neumann VMS-70 / SX-74 / SAL-74 completely reconditioned and guaranteed to be working by Al Grundy was $30,000. It's possible this has gone up - but for anyone on the East Coast looking to spend this kind of cash for a professional caliber system - it would make tons more sense to investigate this option before paying above this along with probably hefty fees for cartage and commissioning of the VTL/Manley lathe.
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Best regards,
Steve Berson
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Aussie0zborn
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The real estate market calls it "over capitalisation". It's like building a mansion in a street full of run-down houses with a high crime rate - the neighbourhood determines the value and you'll never get your money back when you sell.
In this case, the market is not there to cover the time, investment and effort they have put into this lathe. When over-capitalising like this you do it for your own graitification - they will never sell this for USD $35,000.
Parting it out would be a shame but as Steve said, you can get a state -of-the-art Neumann system from Al fully reconditioned, tested etc for USD $30K
In this case, the market is not there to cover the time, investment and effort they have put into this lathe. When over-capitalising like this you do it for your own graitification - they will never sell this for USD $35,000.
Parting it out would be a shame but as Steve said, you can get a state -of-the-art Neumann system from Al fully reconditioned, tested etc for USD $30K
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dietrich10
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Take away the technics motor+neumann platters and you have yourself a 15k scully/manley setup. I know a member of this board picked up a scully with the upgraded westrex head +pitch99 for under 10k. is a kapps/manley setup any better for everyday cutting?
Could Al even offer a vms70 system with the sp02 and get 40k for it just because sp02 vs lyrec?
I would personally love the sp02 but do i need it?
Could Al even offer a vms70 system with the sp02 and get 40k for it just because sp02 vs lyrec?
I would personally love the sp02 but do i need it?
cutting lacquers-vms70 system
I really think most people don't care about the Technics motor, it's a very subtle improvement, compared to any other part of the system (monitors, cutting amplifiers, mastering chain, experience...)
Most of my favorite records were cut on lathes that did not have the Technics motor, a few records were cut on lathes with the motor. The low frequency steady state wow and high frequency transient modulation flutter from the Neumann drive system is barely perceptible as-is.
Also, there are few clients that would care, just a few of the hi-fi guys, and you could probably get into an argument that they did not want the direct-drive sound on their discs. Direct drives are still fairly unfashionable in the hi-fi crowd.
Most of my favorite records were cut on lathes that did not have the Technics motor, a few records were cut on lathes with the motor. The low frequency steady state wow and high frequency transient modulation flutter from the Neumann drive system is barely perceptible as-is.
Also, there are few clients that would care, just a few of the hi-fi guys, and you could probably get into an argument that they did not want the direct-drive sound on their discs. Direct drives are still fairly unfashionable in the hi-fi crowd.
by reading thru this thread and thinking about the title (Finest cutting system), I have to mention a system that I had the chance to test & listen. one of the best I ever heard.
It consists of a VMS80 machine with a custom amplifier and SC99 cutterhead. the signal processing (riaa encoder & feedback preamp) is a vinylium 'MiniCut', if I remember correct, the power amps are 'Higher Fildelity' monoblocs with several 100 watts.
Side note:
even today the Neumann SAL74 & SX74 are a hard to beat reference, but I think the 'weak' side of this amp are all these electronics in the signalpath, especially the poweramps could be better. my impressions are that the older LOV74s (not the B version) are better, they recover more gently from overload (clipping does occur even with this huge power) and are less complex (fewer semiconductors) than the newer ones.
- end of side note.
with the MiniCut plus external high-end poweramp we minimized the signalpath. I guess this could be a reason for the incredible soundstage of the recordings on this system. at least with modern jazz and blues recordings the master disks just sound amazing and detailed on a EMT turntable (tested with MC and MM pickups) and high-end preamps & amps and Tannoy speakers. really impressive. see http://www.organicmusic.de for pics etc...
in the end I think, the right mods and setups make a lathe sound nice. but this is usually a lot of work (and money too).
so far my $0.05
jvo
It consists of a VMS80 machine with a custom amplifier and SC99 cutterhead. the signal processing (riaa encoder & feedback preamp) is a vinylium 'MiniCut', if I remember correct, the power amps are 'Higher Fildelity' monoblocs with several 100 watts.
Side note:
even today the Neumann SAL74 & SX74 are a hard to beat reference, but I think the 'weak' side of this amp are all these electronics in the signalpath, especially the poweramps could be better. my impressions are that the older LOV74s (not the B version) are better, they recover more gently from overload (clipping does occur even with this huge power) and are less complex (fewer semiconductors) than the newer ones.
- end of side note.
with the MiniCut plus external high-end poweramp we minimized the signalpath. I guess this could be a reason for the incredible soundstage of the recordings on this system. at least with modern jazz and blues recordings the master disks just sound amazing and detailed on a EMT turntable (tested with MC and MM pickups) and high-end preamps & amps and Tannoy speakers. really impressive. see http://www.organicmusic.de for pics etc...
in the end I think, the right mods and setups make a lathe sound nice. but this is usually a lot of work (and money too).
so far my $0.05
jvo
power to vinyl - www.vinylium.ch