polycarbonate arrived - test one complete

[cymbalism]

all i can say is wow! i ordered some lexan from a local dealer here and picked them up today. i came home, peeled the protective layer off of one, hit it with a zerostat gun, placed it on the platter with a 60 watt bulb on it for a few minutes and proceeded with my first cut.

i cut one tune at 33 and played it back - it sounds as good as a normal record, hands down. extremely minimal surface noise as you would hear from a normal pressed vinyl, the chip sucked up perfectly and no problems from the diamond stylus i.e. screeching or chip sticking.

flo - i cant thank you enough for the inspiration. the days of spending $500 on 25 acetates is gone. bring on the clear lexan!!!

if anyone is thinking of doing this - my advice is go for it! you wont be disappointed!

[monoplex]

Is a Antistatic gun really needed, just curious? Did your supplier cut them circular?

[cymbalism]

Is a Antistatic gun really needed, just curious? Did your supplier cut them circular?

just being safe as the plastic coating you peel off leaves a bit of static feel to the poly.

yes, i ordered them 11 7/8" which is the size of a regular 12" single with a 9/32" hole punched in the center.

[MEGAMIKE]

kool.
did you use any lube.

[cymbalism]

kool.
did you use any lube.

nope, i was debating on using the mixture you mentioned though in case there was any crazy residue on them from the protective layer but it came off nice and clean

one question i do have though - the dealer said next time they cut these for me, they'll need to use the paper protected lexan instead of the plastic protected - just wondering how easy and painless the paper comes off compared to the plastic

[flozki]

yes lexan is easy. it is way different than the soury material...
only problem...it is transparent. which is opticaly not nice.
but thats all.

no lube nothing. i never had problem with static discharge....
the plastic protection does not leave any traces...
the one with paper i dont know.
lexan is always with plastic protection

let me know if heating is any good... i never could see anything positive..
neither soundwise nor lifetime of stylus.
but i could be wrong...

[UNIVOX]

so lexan, from what i've gathered is a clear bendable plastic with varying thicknesses (depending on what you order)?

how tough is it? does it pancake when you hold one edge of the record?

just curious. i have some ideas to make a colored vinyl using the clear lexan as the top and bottom. just a sandwich...like so ha

LEXAN
colored plastic or other colored material
LEXAN

would this work?

[emorritt]

Cymbalism what stylus are you using and are you heating it more than as for lacquer cutting? Several years ago Souri made a couple of long shank diamond cutting points for me that fit a Presto/Grampian head. I sort of put that project on hold, but a year and a half ago I had a company make me several hundred Lexan recording disks each in 12, 10 and 7 inch LCH sizes, strictly because of the cost of lacquers. I got the disks, used Souri's cutting stylus and - sort of half baked results, at least in my opinion. Yeah it sounds like a 'not brand new but not partially worn' vinyl recording, not too much surface noise, fairly good high end response but not as good as a lacquer. Is this the sort of sound you're describing or was it 'absolute drop dead high fidelity with almost no noise like a lacquer; enough to completely abandon the lacquer disk'? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm really interested if there's hope with Lexan because I have hundreds of them piled up here and I judged them 'unsaleable'...) I've never tried "heating up" the disk before cutting, just relied on the stylus heat - maybe this is necessary. Any input? Also, what lathe are you using?

[mossboss]

Hey emorritt
I am on the same page It is hard to tell what these people describe as "Great sound" no noise etc I did ask a couple of times for a Lexan cut that is "good" so as to make a couple of nickel stampers and press some records so as to have an objective comparisson but there has been no takers so far
I am at the stage where i am tossing a coin to get a diamond stylus and have a go myself However so far in following post's here I am not convinced that $400-500 will be wisely spent Your post certainly made me put the coin away for the time being anyway
By the way your blanks are now "Saleable" Ha Ha
Cheers

[emorritt]

Well Moss the problem with Lexan is that not all the disks that are cut and center hole drilled are FLAT. Many are, but out of about every 20 disks 3 to 6 (or more) are warped either slightly or severely. I've tried heating the disk to flatten it out and make it recordable, but with limited success. Of course, the vacuum holds the disk flat, but on a playback turntable it may lay flat or depending on how bad and where the warp is it may not lay level enough to play properly. Yes, it's a "good" substitute for lacquers but I'm not yet at the point of chucking my Audiodiscs down the pan and switching.

[cymbalism]

hey guys

emorritt - i am using a presto 6n lathe with a grampian type-c magnetic mono head for the time being. the sound from the lexan is good but you are correct in saying it's not as great as an acetate. however, i cannot dish out $300 for a measly 25 plates from apollo especially when i can get close to 75 lexan plates for around that much, cut and drilled and have them in a days time as the company is 10 minutes from my house. to me it's more expendable as i dont get pissed or have a rash of profanity explode from my mouth when my vaccuum tube plugs in the midst of cutting or the cut is too hot when all is said and done.

i'm not cutting masters for anyone - i'm cutting dubs for myself and my friends for playing at the club. to me, i prefer vinyl over cds so i sold my cdjs and got the lathe for the purpose of doing just that - playing records. the music has a club life of a few months so using lexan for me makes more sense since i'm not wasting loads and loads of money on something i'm only going to play a few times then file away with the rest of my collection. i have cut a couple full length lps for myself using the lexan and can put them on and listen to them comfortably. i'm sure in the future when i upgrade to a better head, the sound will be even better. i'm shopping for a haeco stereo head or a grampian type-d mono head. i'm also going to attempt to make a stereo head for shits and giggles.

the company i got my lexan from is a local company and they cut them at 11 7/8" which as everyone should know is the exact dimensions of a 12" vinyl or lacquer and they drilled the holes 9/32" with a hollow point bit. they are 1/16" thick which makes them extremely durable, probably would compare it to 120-140 gram and so far every plate has been flat. i made it a point to stress that to the company that i would not be able to use them if there were any sort of warpage to the poly. i am only using heat from a lamp as there is no room on the diamond stylus to add nichrome. i was considering wrapping the nichrome around the adapter but i'm not sure if that would work very well, plus i've heard from a few guys on the forum that applying heat to the diamond probably isnt the best idea because it can chip easier.

i honestly would say for anyone wanting to try lexan, do it. i paid around $320 USD for the diamond from vinylium and it came in like a week. if you have a stronger head than i do, i'm sure the results will be a lot better for you. in the meantime, i have to pump up the volume a bit at the club but i had to do that for acetate too so its no difference on my end. i'll have to encode something i cut for you guys to check out the quality of.

[emorritt]

Hey I hear ya with the "profanity" about the tube plugging - with the overpriced lacquers we're forced to buy nowadays.

I originally purchased the Lexan to reduce overhead because of the unrealistic prices Apollo (and Transco at the time) is charging - not to mention the prices you have to pay for diamond cutting points when I know for a fact they can't possibly cost that much to produce because it's industrial diamond - not real diamond. A fair price would be $150 to $200 US. If memory serves, I paid $185 each for the two I had made.

I remember in the late 70's when I could get a box of reasonably good quality 10 or 12 inch disks from Allied (at least as good as Lexan) for $2.25 each for 12 inch. These were good enough to do dubplates or recordings for general use. I would choose a Transco or Apollo blank for something where the customer wanted better quality, which if there were an alternative like the old Allied product would justify the cost. Inflation has screwed up all pricing schemes, but the adjustment over 30 years shouldn't be THAT much. Even at the current fair rate of inflation, their products should only be priced at around $7 or $8 for 12 inch dubs, NOT over $11 or $12 each. But when you're the only game in town, that's what happens and everybody suffers. Aluminum sheet stock DOESN'T cost that much (I've researched it) and if they're not doing the surfacing themselves in house, shame on them. They have the equipment - at least Audio Devices did and subsequently Capitol (who purchased Audio Devices) - what happened to it? I am under the impression that they purchase 'finished' blanks and just do the coating and nothing else.

Yes, lacquer is overpriced at the moment, but for quality it's the only choice. I really hope we can develop the appropriate cutting stylus, heating process, and cutting technique for Lexan to produce some competition for lacquer disks.

[cymbalism]

amen brother. both on the diamond stylus and the plate costs.

i wonder how much coaxing it would take to get apollo to adjust their prices. like if everyone who cuts on this forum approached them with the idea that if prices were lower, they would in fact have X amount of people ordering X amount of lacquers every month.

for example - imagine if 30 people on here who cut regularly ordered a minimum of 50 discs a month, that's 1500 units they could shift a month. if they lowered their prices to say $100 for 25 acetates, they would make $6,000 a month, maybe more depending on how many plates people would order. thats $72,000 a year only from the people on this forum. there's got to be other people out there cutting masters for labels, dubs for djs / jukeboxes, plus overseas buyers etc etc. there cant possibly be that many people out there buying plates from apollo now at $500 for 25. i bet if they lowered their prices, the shift from cd to vinyl production would quadruple.

[andybee]

hey, nice to hear!
I think, I start cutting dubs again
souris plates are not black, they only look black
it is a sandwich, in the middle black, on both sides
is a thin (maybe 200um) layer of transparent plastics+
surface protection.
how thick is the LEXAN available?

[cymbalism]

hey, nice to hear!
I think, I start cutting dubs again
souris plates are not black, they only look black
it is a sandwich, in the middle black, on both sides
is a thin (maybe 200um) layer of transparent plastics+
surface protection.
how thick is the LEXAN available?

if you find a plastics dealer near you, you should be able to get lexan thru them in various thicknesses. i went for the 1/16" thickness but you can get way thicker or way thinner pieces. just shop around and you'll find out its a lot more accessible than you think

[mossboss]

Hey all
It is amazing really to think that in period of over 70 odd years or since the thirties when the lacquer replaced wax we still have to use them
There cannot be another area in the whole industry that so little has be done to find an alternative or something better than lacquer
Here we are a bunch of interested people trying different ways to overcome a situation where two manufacturers worldwide ar "gouging" the whole industry and it is left up to a bunch of trolls to push the issue forward
I hear everyone complaining about the cost of them I am one as well but how is anyone going to convince these guys that they have reached the upper limit of the cost of these lacquers is beyond me
Why would they any way One in the US and another in Japan that's it full stop like it or lump it and we do lump it
How good is it! 50 cents of aluminium and 30 cents worth of laccquer produced in 40 year old gear which was written off years ago turns out a $25 item and the best is no Competition these guys are not going to do anything on prices and by the way the Apollo guys liked Transco so much they bought them out ARGHHHHHHHHH
The only way is to find an alternative It seems promising so far so lets keep at it we may get there yet
Can any one send me a couple of sets of Good Lexan cuts at my cost say a 10" and a 14" so we can make some stampers out of them? PM please
Cheers

[emorritt]

I'm not a chemist, but it would be nice to come up with a plastic polymer that could be moulded into disks that has the same plastic characteristic as the lacquer emulsion currently used. You wouldn't have to use a diamond to cut it, never worry about cutting through into the aluminum substrate, and it would behave in the silvering/plating process in a similar manner to lacquer. Any chemists out there??

[UNIVOX]

has anybody tried PVC sheet for cutting? I was looking around and the same places that sell lexan also sells sheets of PVC in varying thicknesses and sizes.

[Simon]

PVC is to hard.

[UNIVOX]

so would it be possible to use heat lamp to soften the material and use a temperature gun like this

http://www.my-batteries.net/fitness-beauty/Non-Contact-Infrared-Thermometer-Temperature-Laser-Gun.htm

to monitor the surface temperature and keep it close to the melting point while the disc cuts?