New: Phonocut Desktop Disc Cutter

[Dubcutz]

Hi Jacob,

I don’t work for Phonocut—I’m based in Sydney. I understand your frustration and wasn’t aware that you had already contacted them. I hope things work out for you in the end, and that you’re able to get a refund.

regards
theo

[markrob]

Hi Jacob

I’m sorry you feel this way, I can assure you this is not a scam, just email them directly with your concerns and i’m sure they will be able to assist you in every way possible. Can you please remove your previous post it’s dis respectful..
take it easy
theo

Do you work there, mate?
How can he assist me? He already wrote me several times that I have only one way: to TRIPLE MY PLEDGE. That was not the deal!

1) I paid for the Phonocut recorder, stylus, 5 blanks, manual, power suppy and shipping and that was our deal.
2) We are over 4+ years from the inital delivery date. OVER FOUR YEARS late! Still no machine ready.
3) Now, he wants TRIPLE the money I invested to have the machine - If I don't do it - I will receive NOTHING.

That was not the deal. Ale he has changed the looks completely etc. So - we're many years late, not the design I wanted, he wants triple the money. Ask your lawyer about it - because I asked mine and now I know everything. There are TWO WAYS to end this scam party. Return 100% of the pledge to me and other who don't want to be part of "new project" very different from what was told in the beginning and also financially. Second way is to send him 3x more money and wait God know how long.

Sorry, my key was to help someone build his "dream easy to use lathe" and be part of the project and have one. But it's been so many years and still nothing! Nothing other than asking for more money which was of course not the deal I made with him. Buy the way - i see case when someone wants is desperately and will pay triple. I see it, and understand. But I don't want to participate anymore with changed rules. I already put all my docs, emails and kickstarted stuff to my lawyer.

This is just a scam, regular scam, and I hate theieves, I really do!

Hi,

Sorry that this project never quite came to be completed. However, this is NOT a scam. This was a Kickstarter project and as such there was no guarantee that your would receive anything in return for your backing. It was not a finished product ready for sale. You took on the risk of losing your money when you backed the project. They made a best effort to complete the project but found it could not be accomplished. If you still believe they can deliver at triple the cost, then you have to decide if this risk is worth it. Many people seem to get caught up in Kickstarter projects and become angry when it is not delivered, but you are funding and R&D effort, not placing an order for a product. Consider it a lesson. Don't back any Kickstarter or other crowd funding project with money that you can't afford to lose.

Mark

Mark

[displacedsnail]

tl;dr definitely not a scam!

i mean, the refund period lasted for like four years. I was the 3rd backer on this project in 2019, one of the super early birds. It's such an exciting idea. But time went by, I learned about modern lathe culture (with the help of this forum) and I asked for, and received, my refund in 2022, three whole years after backing the project. The process was simple and everyone was polite, and I stashed the money away to get my first Presto lathe. I'm still following Phonocut, and the prototype images from a few months ago look awesome. It will still be a very interesting machine, and I think if it comes to fruition, it'll make excellent cuts. I've definitely lost money on delayed/cancelled Kickstarter projects before, and have l.i.t.e.r.a.l.l.y. never been offered a refund. So it was great that they allowed for refunds basically the entirety of the project length up until this year!

[himynameisjacob]

Mark, how can you defend someone who earns 1/2 MILLION DOLLARS for a lathe kickstarter project and 5 years after initial delivery date still nothning. I don't remember reading any rules that I am backing the project that can be scam, fake or something. But I do have a proof what EXACTLY I will get after its completed. My lawyer got all of these docs. As I have no agreement with Kickstarter, this agreement was set online between people and him, basing on what he wrote them (on the kickstarter platofrm) they will get. If the (in the meantime) rules are changed, price changed or the timeline is stretched you may opt for a total refund becasue you COULD not agree with new rules. That's the law side.

So, to sum it all, what you wrote is basically anyone can go to kickstarter, make a good AI prototype, cash million dollars and do nothing with no responsilibilty? This is (sorry), a bs nonsense! Or it's the "designer will" to refund you money. Really?
Anyway, I got my refund, I do really hope it will be completed and be a fun/good project to compete with T560 for example.

[markrob]

Hi,

I'm not sure I understand what you are claiming. If you made a deal with the Phoncut people outside of Kickstarter, then I think you might have a valid case. That would depend on any contract you signed. If you were a Kickstarter backer, then any refund would be at the discretion of the project principles. Again, a Kickstarter campaign is not a store. You are funding an R&D with a backer reward attached. Read the Kickstarter terms of service. I'm no lawyer, but I guess if you could prove that the money was collected and pocketed with no actual work done (a true scam), then you might be able to recover damages in court. Good luck with that. Given the people involved in this project, I don't think there was any attempt to defraud. There was a working prototype demonstrated. They just couldn't get it into a sellable production machine at the price and performance point they targeted. The fact that they are still working on this after so long seems to indicate that they do want to produce a final product, but it will not meet the the original price point.

It sounds like you did get a refund. If so, that's great!

Mark

[selectavision]

The Phonocut project was ambitious. It should be noted that there have been no serious updates on their website since 2022. Since Florian (flotzki) was (or still is) involved, I doubt there was any fraudulent intent behind the project. I can only assume that the first batch of the pilot series, which was probably produced in China, was already so bad that significant corrections were necessary. All backers would certainly have been happy to receive information about this - if that was the case. Flo is a well renowned member with much expertise. I would not expect anyting questionable behind his projects. But this- of course- is only my personal point of view.
In fact here is so much information available about building a lathe from scratch by using amateur means that everyone is good advised to do so. Before I invest 1000 bugs in something, I'd rather start building it myself while relying on my own nose...

Martin

[zdenek]

Let me post a photo of the interior of this device. I believe that it should work relatively well, the aluminum guides seem to be of poor quality. If the slide motor and the motor are well insulated, there should be no problems. I calculated the approximate costs of all the mechanics and electronics without assembly. This is the machine itself, so the materials cost around $1500. You have to pay for a good quality Swiss head. $5,000, and this was installed in this prototype. It seems to me that in order for the project to be finalized, we need to add a few cents. If there was a lot of interest in the range of 1,000 units, probably the people who paid $1,000 to start the project would receive a ready and functional machine for $1,000, but unfortunately it didn't work out, life is brutal...

[andybee]

I think impossible to find 1000 (!?) people who want to buy...

[piaptk]

1. This definitely wasn't a scam... just a failed dream
2. Flo's assistant posted on the Record Cutters Guild FB group that he hasn't been involved in the project for several years at this point, nor has Kamran V their US rep despite the fact that they are still on the site.
3. It was a bad look for them to 1) not post anything for years 2) when they did say "we won't tell you who is involved, any specs, or a final price (but it won't be less than $20,000) but you have 20 days to either take a refund or "we have no further responsibility to give you a refund after Dec 31". That's just lame.
4. Anyone who is completely shocked that these guys weren't able to make a plug and play diamond cutting stereo machine that works with the push of a button for $1100 must not have ever cut records before. I pledged to this immediately when it went up despite being almost certain that there was no way it would end up retailing for that after the Kickstarter. I just kind of hoped they would jack up the price and take it in the shorts for the pledgers and deliver even though they were below cost. But I was 100% expecting that this would happen and hoping for the best. But I had a pretty good feeling that due to the people involved that the worst possible outcome was a refund, which I got.

This whole situation sucks, and they handled it horribly, and their end product, if it ever comes out will probably flop, but they did give refunds.

There are other options available right now for an amazing diamond stereo lathe for less than the estimated minimum retail price of their current vaporware lathe. DM me if you are interested.

[emidisc]

This taken directly from the PHONOCUT Site :-

“For all these people who already have pre-purchased or will pre-purchase PHONOCUT today or in the future, we will keep open the refund window and we promise it will remain open throughout the period of time leading up to when we notify you of your shipment.

You may request a refund now, or at any time before we confirm your shipment at http://PHONOCUT.com/contact
As many of you have recently seen and heard in person over these past months, PHONOCUT is real, it is very easy to use and the discs created sound incredible. It will get done and if you stick with us you’ll be the first to enjoy it.”

-Doc, Kamran, David & Flo