What's up guys, this is my 1st post .
Can you cut a master lacquer on vinylium dubcutter ?
Can you cut a 12in master lacquer for reproduction on vinylium dubcutter ?
How is vinylium dubcutter for dance records ?
Thanks
master laqure vinylium dubcutter
Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn
Q: Can you cut a master lacquer on vinylium dubcutter ?
A: Yes. You can not on VinylRecorder without modification. But you can unmodded on Vinilium.
Q: Can you cut a 12in master lacquer for reproduction on vinylium dubcutter ?
A: Yes, but I think you mean to ask if you can cut a 14in master lacquer. In order to plate and press a record you need some empty space on the outside in order to handle it during the process. So, to press a 12in record you need a 14in master lacquer (a 12in master for a 10in pressed and a 10in master for a 7in pressed). If you want to cut a 14in master you will need a lathe body with a platter large enough to accomodate a 14in disc as well as an overhead mechanism to put the cutterhead on. You can't cut a 14in master on a regular 12in turntable...
Q: How is vinylium dubcutter for dance records?
A: Excellent!
A: Yes. You can not on VinylRecorder without modification. But you can unmodded on Vinilium.
Q: Can you cut a 12in master lacquer for reproduction on vinylium dubcutter ?
A: Yes, but I think you mean to ask if you can cut a 14in master lacquer. In order to plate and press a record you need some empty space on the outside in order to handle it during the process. So, to press a 12in record you need a 14in master lacquer (a 12in master for a 10in pressed and a 10in master for a 7in pressed). If you want to cut a 14in master you will need a lathe body with a platter large enough to accomodate a 14in disc as well as an overhead mechanism to put the cutterhead on. You can't cut a 14in master on a regular 12in turntable...
Q: How is vinylium dubcutter for dance records?
A: Excellent!
one thing regarding the kingston or vinylrecorder is possibly flutter issue?
i understand flutter issue is down to 12XX motor.
fix is mod the 12XX or perhaps source different turntable.
welcome to lathetrolls rocness!
i understand flutter issue is down to 12XX motor.
fix is mod the 12XX or perhaps source different turntable.
welcome to lathetrolls rocness!
Last edited by graph on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.opcode66 wrote:If you want to cut a 14in master you will need a lathe body with a platter large enough to accomodate a 14in disc as well as an overhead mechanism to put the cutterhead on. You can't cut a 14in master on a regular 12in turntable...
So ,there is no way to cut a 14in master with vinylium dubcutter ?
and
I heard that technics 1200's/1210's aren't strong enough to cut a master lacquer is this true ?
Thanks
Guys i don't understand this issue with that bloody technics 1210/1200.
This turntable is good for djing but not for cutting.
I'm still a newbie but i can tell you forget about this turntable it's just not strong enough even with the mod.
Buy a sp10 and that's the end of your issues!
there are plenty on ebay and i not i know a guy here in oz who can sell them for 800-1000 aud.
cheers
This turntable is good for djing but not for cutting.
I'm still a newbie but i can tell you forget about this turntable it's just not strong enough even with the mod.
Buy a sp10 and that's the end of your issues!
there are plenty on ebay and i not i know a guy here in oz who can sell them for 800-1000 aud.
cheers
Wow, thought I explained it all... I'll try again. Flutter is the result of the motor that drives the platter that your lacquer is on. A 1200/1210 has 1.5 kg*cm of torque. That is not a lot. You can mod it with a different resistor to give it between 0.5 and 1.0 additional torque. But, it is not recommended as it can interfere with the precision control of the speed of the turntable (which would also cause flutter).
The better alternative is to purchase an Technics SP10 MK2 to use for cutting. You could put your kingston right on top with no mods just like it was a 1200. And, it produces 10 kg*cm torque (wow) and zero flutter. However the size of the platter is the same as the size of the platter on a 1200/1210 which is 12 inches.
If you want to cut a lacquer that is 14 inches in order to make a 12 inch record you have to use a platter that is at least 14 inches in diameter (duh). You can't lay a 14 inch lacquer down on a 12 inch platter and expect results.
The reason why a 1200/1210 is ok for playback but not so much for cutting has to do with the pressure involved. The playback tonearm and stylus of a 1200 do not excert that much downward pressure on the disc being played. Thus, it does not significantly interfere with the rotation of the platter. However, a cutterhead does in fact excert downward pressure on the lacquer being cut. When that happens on a system that is driven by a 1200/1210 motor then the disc's rotational speed will very slightly slow down and speed up. That is the cause of the flutter.
If you want to minimize flutter then use an SP10 and cut 12 inch lacquers for 10 inch releases. I'm sure you can find a machine shop that can make a 14 inch adaptor plate to go on the SP10 so you can cut 14 inch lacquers however the Vinylium overhead mechanism is only for 12 inch records top. Correct me if I'm wrong... Flo?
Or, purchase a Presto 6 lathe body or something similar with overhead feedscrew mechanism. Use the plater and motor of the lathe body for minimal flutter and platter large enough to accomodate a 14 inch lacquer. Use the overhead mechanism to mount the vinilium SC-99 cutterhead on. Use the VC200 rack from Vinilium for the amps/feedback system. The pitch system would no longer be used. Finally, you would need to modify the cutterhead with one resistor so it can operate without the provided overhead mechansim (thing with the red sides that the cutterhead comes on).
I was concerned with flutter when originally trying to decide on a system to purchase. Finally ended up buying a VMS70 from Al Grundy.
Hope this answers all your questions.
The better alternative is to purchase an Technics SP10 MK2 to use for cutting. You could put your kingston right on top with no mods just like it was a 1200. And, it produces 10 kg*cm torque (wow) and zero flutter. However the size of the platter is the same as the size of the platter on a 1200/1210 which is 12 inches.
If you want to cut a lacquer that is 14 inches in order to make a 12 inch record you have to use a platter that is at least 14 inches in diameter (duh). You can't lay a 14 inch lacquer down on a 12 inch platter and expect results.
The reason why a 1200/1210 is ok for playback but not so much for cutting has to do with the pressure involved. The playback tonearm and stylus of a 1200 do not excert that much downward pressure on the disc being played. Thus, it does not significantly interfere with the rotation of the platter. However, a cutterhead does in fact excert downward pressure on the lacquer being cut. When that happens on a system that is driven by a 1200/1210 motor then the disc's rotational speed will very slightly slow down and speed up. That is the cause of the flutter.
If you want to minimize flutter then use an SP10 and cut 12 inch lacquers for 10 inch releases. I'm sure you can find a machine shop that can make a 14 inch adaptor plate to go on the SP10 so you can cut 14 inch lacquers however the Vinylium overhead mechanism is only for 12 inch records top. Correct me if I'm wrong... Flo?
Or, purchase a Presto 6 lathe body or something similar with overhead feedscrew mechanism. Use the plater and motor of the lathe body for minimal flutter and platter large enough to accomodate a 14 inch lacquer. Use the overhead mechanism to mount the vinilium SC-99 cutterhead on. Use the VC200 rack from Vinilium for the amps/feedback system. The pitch system would no longer be used. Finally, you would need to modify the cutterhead with one resistor so it can operate without the provided overhead mechansim (thing with the red sides that the cutterhead comes on).
I was concerned with flutter when originally trying to decide on a system to purchase. Finally ended up buying a VMS70 from Al Grundy.
Hope this answers all your questions.
Hello !
That's my first post
I would like firstly to excuse me for my very bad English, and I hope you will understand me...
I've read the post of opcode66 (out of subject but congratulation for your determination to create a pitch/depth computer PIC based...):
If torque of a MK2 is enough, is it not better to buy a Synq X-TRM 1 for example and mod it ?
This turntable produce 4.5 kg*cm, have 33 + 45 + 78 rpm and cost about CH Frs. 790.- (~ $750.- for a new one, but ebay is your friend
).
What do you think about ?
Best regards.
That's my first post
I would like firstly to excuse me for my very bad English, and I hope you will understand me...
I've read the post of opcode66 (out of subject but congratulation for your determination to create a pitch/depth computer PIC based...):
Are you sure ??? I've read about torque of SP10 MK2 produce 4.5 kg*cm (5.2 lb*in) and MK3 produce 10kg*cm (13 lb*in)...The better alternative is to purchase an Technics SP10 MK2 to use for cutting. [...] And, it produces 10 kg*cm torque (wow) and zero flutter.
If torque of a MK2 is enough, is it not better to buy a Synq X-TRM 1 for example and mod it ?
This turntable produce 4.5 kg*cm, have 33 + 45 + 78 rpm and cost about CH Frs. 790.- (~ $750.- for a new one, but ebay is your friend
).What do you think about ?
Best regards.
Yep, you're right. 5 for MK2 and 10 for MK3. I should really double check numbers before typing them...
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sp10.shtml
Though I got one number wrong I don't think that makes my post any less valid. The rest of the information is correct.
I've never heard of a Synq. The important factors are torque and highly accurate speed control.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sp10.shtml
Though I got one number wrong I don't think that makes my post any less valid. The rest of the information is correct.
I've never heard of a Synq. The important factors are torque and highly accurate speed control.
hmm.. that Synq seems good where torque is concerned.
http://www.aboutdj.nl/reviews/draaitafels/232-synq-xtrm1-etc-english-version-of-the-review.html
but overall is it as good as the sp10..?
http://www.aboutdj.nl/reviews/draaitafels/232-synq-xtrm1-etc-english-version-of-the-review.html
but overall is it as good as the sp10..?
Forget about it man I have the same turntable from Citronic.
I think they sell this model under 3 or 4 differend brands.
Guys if you check out an sp10 you know what we are talking about.
This turntable is made to last forever. It is fuc... heavy, accurate, the platter is heavy and good. I mean there is a reason for it that all the radio stations used the sp10.
Anyway up to you guys...
I think they sell this model under 3 or 4 differend brands.
Guys if you check out an sp10 you know what we are talking about.
This turntable is made to last forever. It is fuc... heavy, accurate, the platter is heavy and good. I mean there is a reason for it that all the radio stations used the sp10.
Anyway up to you guys...
Thanks for this post nice to here this. I spoke to Al Grundy yesterday very nice guy. I really like the dubcutter from vinylium but not being able to make a 14inopcode66 wrote:We trolls are all happy to see new cutters! Please ask questions. We are all here to help each other learn and grow.
master lacquer so I can have a 12 in vinyl maybe a problem for me because I really want to be able to make 12in vinyl from a 14in master. Now I think I want a Neumann lathe (so sexy) but the price, I better start saving my pennies !
@rocness - You can cut a 14" master lacquer with Vinilium. You just need a proper lathe body and overhead feedscrew mechanism. One of the creators of Vinylium is a super cool cat named Flozki. He posts a lot on this forum. Check out his Presto 6N/Vinylium hybrid:
It can cut a 14" lacquer. Also you might look for a Presto 8D or 8G or 8C. An example of an 8D
Or, you can sometimes find an old Universal lathe. I couldn't quickly find a pic of one. There are plenty of old lathes that would work great!
The only downside is that you would be cutting at a fixed pitch. Old lathes made the cutterhead travel across the disc using a feedscrew mechanism. A motor turns the screw that the cutterhead assembly is coupled to and that forces it across the disc.
The motor on old lathes only turned at one fixed speed. And, the threading of the screw is constant. So, the resulting travel speed across the disc would be constant. Old lathes would come with several interchangeable feedscrews. Each would be labeled with an LPI rating (lines per inch). The word pitch literally means lines per inch in the vinyl world. So, 80 LPI would mean that if you looked at the cut disc under magnification and measured one inch from outer edge to center hole you would find 80 equally spaced grooves.
Modern lathes have what are called pitch computers. They allow the grooves to be packed as tightly as possible such that no space is wasted on a side. The 12" LP (long playing) disc owes it's length (about 21 minutes tops per side) to the pitch computer. Please search this forum for more posts (including my own) on pitch computers and pitch/depth control. FYI the default for pitch on a VMS70 is 400 LPI. The pitch computer would modify this value plus or minus over time as it interprets the preview signal before the material is actually cut to disc.
The Vinilium system comes with an overhead feedscrew mechanism. It is what the cutterhead is mounted on. It is the thing with two red sides with several bars inbetween. That has a dc controlled motor that turns a feedscrew that moved the cutterhead across the disc. The dc motor is controlled by the pitch computer built into the VC200 amp rack. If you bought Vinilium and put the cutterhead on an older lathe body you would no longer have computer controlled pitch. You would have to select a feedscrew with the proper LPI for the lenght and volume you want to cut at.
Finally, yes it is not cheap for a VMS70 from Al. But, keep in mind he provides a warrenty on his lathes. So, if anything goes wrong you have support and replacement parts. You also get access to one of the premiere lathe gurus... So, you do get value for your buck. However, I did choke a little when I heard the price. Just had to buckle down and save a few extra bucks and sell some gear I wasn't using much.
Hope this helps.
It can cut a 14" lacquer. Also you might look for a Presto 8D or 8G or 8C. An example of an 8D
Or, you can sometimes find an old Universal lathe. I couldn't quickly find a pic of one. There are plenty of old lathes that would work great!
The only downside is that you would be cutting at a fixed pitch. Old lathes made the cutterhead travel across the disc using a feedscrew mechanism. A motor turns the screw that the cutterhead assembly is coupled to and that forces it across the disc.
The motor on old lathes only turned at one fixed speed. And, the threading of the screw is constant. So, the resulting travel speed across the disc would be constant. Old lathes would come with several interchangeable feedscrews. Each would be labeled with an LPI rating (lines per inch). The word pitch literally means lines per inch in the vinyl world. So, 80 LPI would mean that if you looked at the cut disc under magnification and measured one inch from outer edge to center hole you would find 80 equally spaced grooves.
Modern lathes have what are called pitch computers. They allow the grooves to be packed as tightly as possible such that no space is wasted on a side. The 12" LP (long playing) disc owes it's length (about 21 minutes tops per side) to the pitch computer. Please search this forum for more posts (including my own) on pitch computers and pitch/depth control. FYI the default for pitch on a VMS70 is 400 LPI. The pitch computer would modify this value plus or minus over time as it interprets the preview signal before the material is actually cut to disc.
The Vinilium system comes with an overhead feedscrew mechanism. It is what the cutterhead is mounted on. It is the thing with two red sides with several bars inbetween. That has a dc controlled motor that turns a feedscrew that moved the cutterhead across the disc. The dc motor is controlled by the pitch computer built into the VC200 amp rack. If you bought Vinilium and put the cutterhead on an older lathe body you would no longer have computer controlled pitch. You would have to select a feedscrew with the proper LPI for the lenght and volume you want to cut at.
Finally, yes it is not cheap for a VMS70 from Al. But, keep in mind he provides a warrenty on his lathes. So, if anything goes wrong you have support and replacement parts. You also get access to one of the premiere lathe gurus... So, you do get value for your buck. However, I did choke a little when I heard the price. Just had to buckle down and save a few extra bucks and sell some gear I wasn't using much.
Hope this helps.
all good!Thanks great info here really. I like the set up Flo has but all of the mods needed to do this may be too munch for me to handle. I need a easy buttonopcode66 wrote:@rocness - You can cut a 14" master lacquer with Vinilium. You just need a proper lathe body and overhead feedscrew mechanism. One of the creators of Vinylium is a super cool cat named Flozki. He posts a lot on this forum. Check out his Presto 6N/Vinylium hybrid:
Hope this helps.
O and thanks for explaining how the compter makes the grooves tighter very cool ,that's what i want .I don't get it ,why would Vinylium make the dubcutter ,if it can't cut a 14in master lacquer to produce a standard 12in vinyl ? There should have been some way to adjust the dubcutter just in case you get a larger platter IMHO.rocness wrote:Thanks great info here really. I like the set up Flo has but all of the mods needed to do this may be too munch for me to handle. I need a easy buttonopcode66 wrote:@rocness - You can cut a 14" master lacquer with Vinilium. You just need a proper lathe body and overhead feedscrew mechanism. One of the creators of Vinylium is a super cool cat named Flozki. He posts a lot on this forum. Check out his Presto 6N/Vinylium hybrid:
Hope this helps.